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Sphinx and GP dates from 10 500 BC?


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#1576    questionmark

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

What a ridiculous statement.  I don't mind you trying to stick up for your little friend, but do try to choose the time and place and not embarrass yourself.  You don't have a clue who could and couldn't write in 2500BC.  Anyway, I didn't say it was the foreman who wrote it, did I?   Do try to think before you bash angrily away at your keyboard.


You've been getting away with this type of nonsense on here for way too long.  You're dealing with Alcibiades now, unfortunately.  And you are out of your depth, believe me.

Right, so you will tell us how many people were capable of reading and writing around 2500 BC in Egypt with sources? Especially among the peasants recruited to do menial work?

Ehm, right....

Now try your ridicule on yourself. Bet you can't do that either.

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#1577    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Yes.  It was meant to be.  Hopefully the elves are busy working on a sense of humour for you.

And as for Vyse's graffiti in the relieving chambers, well... the jury is still out on that one.  You need to read the full story of Howard Vyse and his race to somehow link the GP to Khufu to get a meaured view of this.  Even if the graffiti is genuine, "Khufu's gang" (as it is often translated) doesn't mean a damn thing. Khufu could have been the foreman of a work group... you know, Khufu, good boss, firm but fair, liked his beer. And out of the whole, massive structure of the GP this is the only written reference we have to who it is supposedly built for?  Nope.  No way.  Get a grip Cormac.

Kilroy was here.  But was Khufu?

Apparently you're behind the times. The jury's done gone home after failing to show it's a forgery.

Not with his name written within a cartouche, which was only the prerogative of the pharaoh.

I have a grip. Apparently your is slipping.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1578    questionmark

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 22 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Apparently you're behind the times. The jury's done gone home after failing to show it's a forgery.

Not with his name written within a cartouche, which was only the prerogative of the pharaoh.

I have a grip. Apparently your is slipping.

cormac
Do you also have the impression that the factual knowledge of some around here is inverse proportional to the strength of their opinions?

Edited by questionmark, 22 December 2012 - 09:13 PM.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

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#1579    Alcibiades9

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:27 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Right, so you will tell us how many people were capable of reading and writing around 2500 BC in Egypt with sources? Especially among the peasants recruited to do menial work?


No, you are the one who made the statement, so you tell us how many people were not capable of reading and writing around 2500BC in Egypt.  You back up what you said.  Put up or shut up.

Edited by Alcibiades9, 22 December 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#1580    Alcibiades9

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 22 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Apparently you're behind the times. The jury's done gone home after failing to show it's a forgery.

Not with his name written within a cartouche, which was only the prerogative of the pharaoh.

I have a grip. Apparently your is slipping.

cormac

I see you grew a bit of a backbone when your friend showed up.  So, according to you, it was the Pharoah himself, or someone with his personal express authority alone who scribbled in red ochre on the stone?


#1581    questionmark

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

No, you are the one who made the statement, so you tell us how many people were not capable of reading and writing around 2500BC in Egypt.  You back up what you said.  Put up or shut up.

http://www.jstor.org...=21101586684317

quite easy mate, quite easy.

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#1582    Alcibiades9

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Do you also have the impression that the factual knowledge of some around here is inverse proportional to the strength of their opinions?

The only impression you need to be aware of is that the days of the likes of you and cormac getting away with throwing what little weight you have around is now gone.  Your uncle Alcibiades is here now, and neither of you pass muster with me.  Little schoolyard bullies who have suddenly met a much bigger boy.  Changed times.

I suspect on Christmas eve three spirits will visit you.  And each one will tell you to stop being such a tadger.


#1583    cladking

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

http://www.jstor.org...=21101586684317

quite easy mate, quite easy.

This does not state the oft repeated assumption that most Egyptians were illiterate.

Frankly I suspect most Egyptians in the great pyramid building age could read and
write but most did so at a basic level.  Each individuals writing would be highly indiv-
idual and not closely follow the proper rules.  My guess is that pper was extrtemely
expensive so very little was written on it.  Most writing would be on very temporary
surfaces such as chalk boards or on the ground.

Of course much of this is mostly supposition based on thbe fact that there were few
words and simple grammar.  It is based on scanty evidence somewhat like orthodox
beliefs.

Everything that survives from before the 5th dynasty could be written by one man in
a few hours.  Are we suppose then that one man wrote everything?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1584    Alcibiades9

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

http://www.jstor.org...=21101586684317

quite easy mate, quite easy.

View Postquestionmark, on 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

http://www.jstor.org...=21101586684317

quite easy mate, quite easy.

Yes... and the English lower classes couldn't read or write either, and knew nothing about science.  Oh but then there was Michael Faraday....


Don't make silly generalisations.  Don't tell me who couldn't read or write.  Don't tell me who didn't know what.  Don't project your own ignorance onto others. :-*


#1585    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I see you grew a bit of a backbone when your friend showed up.  So, according to you, it was the Pharoah himself, or someone with his personal express authority alone who scribbled in red ochre on the stone?

I'm saying it was during the time of the reigning pharaoh, in this case Khufu, that the GP can be attributed. And since the name was written within a cartouche it was NOT just some person named 'Khufu'. But then I see as well you've had nothing reliable to say on the matter while, with your Post #1553, coming across as a bit perverted IMO as well as intellectually stunted. Which suggests no further reason to take what you say seriously.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 22 December 2012 - 11:20 PM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1586    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Yes.  It was meant to be.  Hopefully the elves are busy working on a sense of humour for you.

And as for Vyse's graffiti in the relieving chambers, well... the jury is still out on that one.  You need to read the full story of Howard Vyse and his race to somehow link the GP to Khufu to get a meaured view of this.  Even if the graffiti is genuine, "Khufu's gang" (as it is often translated) doesn't mean a damn thing.  Khufu could have been the foreman of a work group... you know, Khufu, good boss, firm but fair, liked his beer. And out of the whole, massive structure of the GP this is the only written reference we have to who it is supposedly built for?  Nope.  No way.  Get a grip Cormac.


Kilroy was here.  But was Khufu?

Here's an example of where an understanding of hieroglyphs, as well as an understanding of the modern development of our ability to translate and interpret them, is critical to the situation.

It's altogether possible quite a few men of that time were named Khufu. It's even possible one of the foremen was named Khufu. It was a common custom for men to name their sons after the reigning king, and even in numerous instances to change their own names to that of the king.

But in all of Egypt there was only one man who could have the name Khufu in a cartouche, and that was the king. The cartouche was a royal seal and was for royalty alone. No common man named Khufu would've dared put his own name inside a cartouche, much less a common worker at the site of the king's pyramid.

The graffiti in the relieving chambers is actually quite complex. It's written in a very linear form of hieroglyphs that would've been the common "handwriting" of the day. The graffiti is considerably more than just Khufu's name splashed here and there. His name exists within sentences following the syntax of the ancient language. Also, although the informal name Khufu is to be found in the graffiti, so is the formal name Khnum-Khuf (or Khnum-Khufu) and his Horus name, Medjedu. This clarifies beyond question that the man identified was King Khufu.

That said, as adventurous and colorful as Howard Vyse was, there was simply no way he could've "faked" the graffiti. Those who have studied the graffiti are certain beyond doubt that it's authentic. To that end I would recommend Ann Macy Roth's excellent book on workmen's graffiti of the Old Kingdom. It's the best source I can cite for this situation.

Bear in mind, when Vyse blasted his way into the relieving chambers, only fifteen years had passed since Champollion had deciphered hieroglyphs. Very few people in the world could yet translate a simple sentence in hieroglyphs. What the graffiti represents is something well beyond the ability of someone like Vyse to comprehend, much less fake.

The jury is not out when it comes to people who study and research ancient Egypt. No one who fits this description doubts the graffiti's authenticity. The charge of fraud, as best as I can reconstruct, was begun by Zecharia Sitchin thirty years ago, in one of his early fringe books on alien intervention—and it has only compiled and snowballed in the fringe camp since that time. Sitchin's argument of fraud was laughably inept and is simple to disprove, so I for one would not recommend following the train of thought of someone such as he.

A few years ago I began a thread to establish the orthodox view on the graffiti and to show why Sitchin was so obviously wrong. If you or anyone else is interested in digesting more details, that discussion can be found here.

Lastly, the graffiti is hardly unique to the Great Pyramid. Similar graffiti has been found in and on the other Giza pyramids, as well as on one or more of Sneferu's pyramids. Graffiti is actually very important to the establishing of historical facts, as well as to linguistic studies.

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#1587    kmt_sesh

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 22 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Would be very early start as Rozhdestvo is not for 16 days, and this eggnog, I googled and see it is some sort of drink for women, that? :)

You're not familiar with eggnog? Goodness, you're missing out! Trust me, it's not a drink for only women.

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#1588    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:41 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 22 December 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Little schoolyard bullies who have suddenly met a much bigger boy
As you have attacked me and held me in arrogant contempt, then I will join and say that though I care nothing for whoever else you attack, it is clear it is you who are a bully and a hypocrite. That we all now tremble in fear at the thought of the great Alcibiades descending on us to enforce "correct thinking"? You complain that others, on both sides of debate, expect perfection in any answers, yet you ask the same from all. You make some childish threat against other posters that you will now beat them, yet you cannot beat me, and I am here alone. I said before that I only act the fool at times because it is my conceit to do so, yet you seem to be a real fool. Your posts are inconsistent and have contradictions. You seem to have real knowledge yet you behave like any other boring troll. Perhaps you should explain yourself, or be seen as a troll.

edit to say I begin to think you are visitor from the fantasy forum, perhaps you are even one of the arch pyramidiots here to cause some disruption. You say you do not believe in the alien theories, yet people tell lies, and your overbearing manner suggests telling lies is nothing to you.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 22 December 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#1589    cladking

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 22 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

I said before that I only act the fool at times because it is my conceit to do so....

No offense intended but this seems to be one the only things you do poorly.

Egg nog is just eggs, sugar, milk, and flavorings but this time of the year it's traditional to add whiskey
or some other alcoholic intoxicant.

Edited by cladking, 22 December 2012 - 11:51 PM.

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#1590    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

View Postcladking, on 22 December 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

No offense intended but this seems to be one the only things you do poorly.

Egg nog is just eggs, sugar, milk, and flavorings but this time of the year it's traditional to add whiskey
or some other alcoholic intoxicant.
you mean I am poor at being a fool? well, now I am heartbroken, a sad clown :cry:

and this egg nog sounds like some terrible blasphemy and sacrilege :)

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 23 December 2012 - 12:15 AM.





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