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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10741    Abramelin

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:08 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 17 March 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

You're quite fast in judgement.
I mean to understand what he said about the way of commenting that is sometimes practiced.

About OLB, everybody has his thoughts about it and I'm not pretending to be able to look into one's mind.
What I post, you seem not able to grasp fully.  
This is not something I invent, or some other 'crazy' etymologist, this is what scientists have been saying for about the time the classic etymology/history took shape.
To diminish my part in it: clearly not my invention, in this case it's written by Schrieck.  Other cases Stevin, still other Van Gorp, still other to many to name.
If you think you can afford yourself to call their studies not worth more then childish gibberish, thanks for clearing this up -> people can take this in their perception of other posts :-)

Walk the talk and show how all other mythic etymology practised here in circles, gives the same short and simple word explanations as should be the case with 'original' language.

I am not fast at judgement, but I have read all of your posts from the moment you registered here.

Your 'sources' of wordplay are guys who had some really crazy ideas. Crazy ideas are not bad, but eventually these ideas were proven wrong.

Deal with that, or stay living in the past, dreaming ancient dreams.

The rest of us moved on, with or without you.


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Edited by Abramelin, 18 March 2012 - 06:08 PM.


#10742    Van Gorp

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 March 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

I am not fast at judgement, but I have read all of your posts from the moment you registered here.

Your 'sources' of wordplay are guys who had some really crazy ideas. Crazy ideas are not bad, but eventually these ideas were proven wrong.

Deal with that, or stay living in the past, dreaming ancient dreams.

The rest of us moved on, with or without you.


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Fair enough, all is free to move or stay wherever he wants. I'm certainly not expecting anyone to go with me.  There is only one way said the Levellers.
I'll just hang around if you don't mind :-) Dana (Marque)


Posted Image


#10743    The Puzzler

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:17 AM

Just as a side note:

He also writes that "It also appears that Homer's Greek contains a large number of loan words from western European languages, more often from Dutch rather than English, French or German."
http://en.wikipedia....Troy_Once_Stood


I keep harping on about this in the OLB language - the Greek etymologies are found in Dutch - not English or Frisian. Reading things will make the meanings different.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10744    Abramelin

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:27 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 19 March 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Just as a side note:

He also writes that "It also appears that Homer's Greek contains a large number of loan words from western European languages, more often from Dutch rather than English, French or German."
http://en.wikipedia....Troy_Once_Stood


I keep harping on about this in the OLB language - the Greek etymologies are found in Dutch - not English or Frisian. Reading things will make the meanings different.

Heh, and you know why he really thinks that? Because he uses the OLB as one of his sources.


#10745    The Puzzler

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Heh, and you know why he really thinks that? Because he uses the OLB as one of his sources.
I haven't read the book but I've read alot about it - is that really true Abe?

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10746    Abramelin

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 19 March 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I haven't read the book but I've read alot about it - is that really true Abe?

It really is true. There are a couple of pages of his book online, and on one of those pages he does mention the OLB.

Or it was in a pdf/chapter I once got, on request. If you go to the site about his book, you can request for a chapter of the book through email.


#10747    The_Spartan

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:30 AM

I had an old copy of the book"Where Troy Once Stood"  , but i lost it. Posted Image

"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

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#10748    The Puzzler

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 19 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I had an old copy of the book"Where Troy Once Stood"  , but i lost it. Posted Image
I'd like to try and get a copy myself, just to read for interest.

View PostAbramelin, on 19 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

It really is true. There are a couple of pages of his book online, and on one of those pages he does mention the OLB.

Or it was in a pdf/chapter I once got, on request. If you go to the site about his book, you can request for a chapter of the book through email.
OK, how about that, now I want to read it more than ever!

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10749    Abramelin

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:05 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 19 March 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I had an old copy of the book"Where Troy Once Stood"  , but i lost it. Posted Image

Do you have any idea about what you have lost?? I have seen people willing to pay many hundreds of dollars for an old copy!!

I am a book-lover myself, and I still remember I once lended someone a book about the ancient Hittite language, and I loved that book. I even forgot the name of the writer, but his name started with "Hr" or something (Czechoslovakian name??).

Never saw the guy I lent it to again, and I know how much that sucks.

For many people books are similar to toilet paper, but not to me.


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Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#10750    Abramelin

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:08 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 19 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'd like to try and get a copy myself, just to read for interest.


OK, how about that, now I want to read it more than ever!

Puzz, I will check my emails. It must be in the pdf/link to a webpage I received from him (or 'them').

++++

EDIT:

I checked, and this is the link they sent me:

http://www.troy-in-e...rojan-war-0.htm

But I am a 100 % sure I read it online that Wilkens quoted from/mentioned the OLB.

Maybe that page is not online any longer.

EDIT:

Here's an old post by Flashbangwollap (a reply to "Tony"):

View PostFlashbangwollap, on 05 March 2011 - 06:55 PM, said:

Without repeating the whole of the thread and so on... Wilkens tells us he has been studying the question of where Troy was located for 30 years. Not three as you or Alewyn has said.

Wilkens also quotes the OLB. However he also has mountains of other evidence and one of his key arguments is that people mess with texts to get there own way or that the real identity of various places is forgotten. Need I mention Henry VIII again or do you see my point? I think it's fair if we all take stock of what Otharus has asked to be done and then perhaps we can move on. But remember I've heard it said many times on here that the arguments put up by the skeptics are nothing in comparison to those who are professional academics - Historians.


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Edited by Abramelin, 19 March 2012 - 02:26 PM.


#10751    The Puzzler

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:40 AM

No worries Abe.

The last sentence in that link you added about the Azelian language said this:
The English and Dutch languages (including Frisian) are called coastal Germanic and that feature would be the result of the fact that the preceding local language was not Maglemosian like in Germany but Azelian.
http://www.proto-english.org/o2.html

Maurits Gysseling [1], a twentieth century Belgian linguist and professor, published a paper proposing a very ancient language for Holland and Belgium which was neither German nor Brythonic. He based his hypothesis upon the study of ancient place names in Holland and Belgium. Many other linguists speak about Italic features in the Dutch language, not so much in words but in the pronunciation of long vowels for instance. Several rivers in the Lowlands (e.g. ijzer, ijssel)  seem to have names derived from the Azelian word 'izara'.
Such river names are also found in France (Isère, Oise and others). This made us suppose that an important Azelian language zone existed up to the shores of the North Sea.


That reminds of me of the Wilkens idea of Greek words in Dutch, this article says italic.

Also it seems that Fryans might have been Azelians...

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10752    Otharus

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

View PostOtharus, on 15 March 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

The following is copied from:

"Negen Eeuwen Friesland-Holland ~ geschiedenis van een haat-liefde verhouding"

('nine centuries Friesland-Holland ~ history of a hate-love affair')

by Breuker & Janse (editors), published 1997 by the Fryske Akademy.

"Het ontstaan van het Fries en het Hollands"

('the emergence of the Frisian and the Dutch language')

by Rolf H. Bremmer jr.

View PostOtharus, on 17 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Chapter 1 of "Hir is eskriven ~ lezen en schrijven in de Friese landen rond 1300" ('reading and writing in the Frisian lands ca. 1300'), by Rolf H. Bremmer jr. (Fryske Akademy, 2004).

Title: "Zoveel geschreven, zo weinig gebleven" ('so much written, so little saved')

Just for clarity, I'd like to add that I posted these two articles not because I fully agree with them, but because I think they are relevant for this discussion.

I intend to translate parts of them when I have prioritime, if no-one else does that.


#10753    Abramelin

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 21 March 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

No worries Abe.

The last sentence in that link you added about the Azelian language said this:
The English and Dutch languages (including Frisian) are called coastal Germanic and that feature would be the result of the fact that the preceding local language was not Maglemosian like in Germany but Azelian.
http://www.proto-english.org/o2.html

Maurits Gysseling [1], a twentieth century Belgian linguist and professor, published a paper proposing a very ancient language for Holland and Belgium which was neither German nor Brythonic. He based his hypothesis upon the study of ancient place names in Holland and Belgium. Many other linguists speak about Italic features in the Dutch language, not so much in words but in the pronunciation of long vowels for instance. Several rivers in the Lowlands (e.g. ijzer, ijssel)  seem to have names derived from the Azelian word 'izara'.
Such river names are also found in France (Isère, Oise and others). This made us suppose that an important Azelian language zone existed up to the shores of the North Sea.


That reminds of me of the Wilkens idea of Greek words in Dutch, this article says italic.

Also it seems that Fryans might have been Azelians...

Yes, that's what I have been talking about several times: the Northwest Block. But it is a controversial theory.

Just like the theory I quoted from in the Troy/Basque thread: http://www.proto-english.org
And it's also by a Belgian: Michael Goormachtigh.

+++

EDIT:

The Nordwestblock (English: "North-West Block"), is a hypothetical cultural region, that several 20th century scholars propose as a prehistoric culture, thought to be roughly bounded by the rivers Meuse, Elbe, Somme and Oise (the present-day Netherlands, Belgium, northern France and western Germany) and possibly the eastern part of England during the Bronze and Iron Ages (3rd to 1st millennia BC, up to the gradual onset of historical sources from the 1st century).

The theory was first proposed in 1962 by Rolf Hachmann, an historian, Georg Kossack, an archeologist, and Hans Kuhn, a linguist.[1] They continued the work of the Belgian linguist Maurits Gysseling, who got his inspiration from the Belgian archeologist Siegfried De Laet. Gysseling's original proposal included research that another language may have existed somewhere in between Germanic and Celtic in the Belgian (sic) region.

Concerning the language spoken by the Iron Age Nordwestblock population, Kuhn speculated on linguistic affinity to the Venetic language, other hypotheses connect the Northwestblock with the Raetic ("Tyrsenian") or generic Centum Indo-European (Illyrian, "Old European"). Gysseling suspected an intermediate Belgian language between Germanic and Celtic, that might have been affiliated to Italic. According to Luc van Durme, a Belgian linguist, toponymic evidence to a former Celtic presence in the Low Countries is near to utterly absent.[4] Kuhn noted that since Proto-Indo-European (PIE) /b/ was very rare, and since this PIE /b/, via Grimm's law, is the only source of regularly inherited /p/'s in words in Germanic languages, the many words with /p/'s which do occur must have some other language as source. Similarly, in Celtic, PIE /p/ disappeared and in regularly inherited words only reappeared in p-Celtic languages as a result of the rule that PIE *kʷ became proto-Celtic *p. All this taken together means that any word in p- in a Germanic language which is not evidently borrowed from either Latin or a p-Celtic language must be a loan, and these words Kuhn ascribes to the Nordwestblock language.

Linguist Peter Schrijver speculates on the reminiscent lexical and typological features of the region, from an unknown substrate whose linguistic influences may have influenced the historical development of the (Romance and Germanic) languages of the region. He assumes the pre-existence of pre-Indo-European languages linked to the archeological Linear Pottery culture and to a family of languages featuring complex verbs, of which the Northwest Caucasian languages might have been the sole survivors. Although assumed to have left traces within all other Indo-European languages as well, its influence would have been especially strong on Celtic languages originating north of the Alps and on the region including Belgium and the Rhineland

http://en.wikipedia....i/Nordwestblock

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Edited by Abramelin, 21 March 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#10754    Abramelin

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:15 PM

The origins of Old Germanic studies in the Low Countries - Kees Dekker, Cornelis Dekker

http://books.google...._other_versions

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

==

A companion to Anglo-Saxon literature - Phillip Pulsiano,Elaine M. Treharne

Chapter 20: Continental Germanic Influences - Rolf Bremmer, page 375


http://books.google....reharne&f=false

==

Texts & contexts of the oldest Runic inscriptions - Tineke Looijenga

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

==

WHY OLD FRISIAN IS STILL QUITE OLD

ARJEN P. VERSLOOT


http://argyf.fryske-...riodization.pdf

==

And I know many will like this, heh:

Language change and language structure: older Germanic languages in a ... - Toril Swan,Endre Mørck,Olaf Jansen Westvik

page 294


http://books.google....stblock&f=false


Attached File  Vennemann_NWBlock.jpg   116.48K   4 downloads

Edited by Abramelin, 21 March 2012 - 04:17 PM.


#10755    Otharus

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:11 PM

Bought a book today so will be studying.

Posted Image

Frieslands oudheid. Het rijk van de Friese koningen, opkomst en ondergang
Halbertsma, H.

Uitgave in samenwerking met: Stichting Centrum Historische Instellingen

Wegens het vergevorderde jaargetijde moest de Angelsaksische bisschop Wilfried er van afzien zijn reis naar Rome meteen te vervolgen en daarom bracht hij met zijn reisgezellen de winter door aan het hof van de Friese koning Aldgisl. Deze stond hem toe het evangelie te verkondigen en dit sloeg zo aan dat hij bijna alle aanzienlijken tot de doop overhaalde. De rijke visvangst gedurende Wilfrieds optreden werd als een teken Gods opgevat en liet niet na de Friezen gunstig voor Wilfrieds prediking te stemmen.

Bovenstaand verhaal vertelt Herre Halbertsma in zijn studie over de lotgevallen van het Friese volk en zijn woongebied vanaf de prehistorie tot in de middeleeuwen. Het werk is vooral gebaseerd op geschreven bronnen, maar heeft een veel ruimer gebied dan alleen Friesland als kader.