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Operations Northwoods


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#16    skyeagle409

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostOverSword, on 02 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Blind.

Show me the evidence!

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#17    Rafterman

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

View PostQ24, on 02 November 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

The Northwoods plan would have resulted in the potential deaths of thousands of U.S. and Cuban civilians in the staged-pretext based war, even though it appears that a limited number of U.S. civilians would have been killed during the initial staged-event itself during the Miami terror campaign and detonation of plastic explosive bombs.  However, why it matters whether a few hundred or thousand, or none at all, perished during creation of the pretext I don’t know.

I mean what is the argument in regard to 9/11?…

That any potential planners (here we are looking at Neocons of the Bush administration) are prepared to commit to death 10,000+ coalition forces and contractor personnel, 25,000+ Afghan and Iraqi security forces personnel (supposedly our allies) and 100,000+ civilians from those countries (by some estimates an awful lot more), not to mention all those many thousands more maimed and injured… but oh not the 3,000 on 9/11, a drop in the ocean in a country of 300 million, who were somehow too important to lose?  There is no logic to it - they were few compared to the eventual number that would perish as an end result of the operation.  Like it matters whether it’s 135,000+ or 138,000+.  The same can be applied to the cost of rebuilding in the U.S. compared to the cost of the wars themselves.

The real importance of Northwoods is that it shows there is the potential for hawkish individuals within the U.S. government/military system to stage false flag terror attacks (or at least the appearance of) on the U.S., including the killing of civilians (Cubans and possibly limited Americans), in order to deceive the public and sway misplaced patriotic fervour in support of an unjust war that would result in the deaths of thousands more.  If Bush, Cheney and co. were the final hurdle rather than JFK then it could have happened in 1962.  In addition, Northwoods also contains reference to the switching of civilian aircraft for drone flights to present the appearance of an attack by foreign nationals - where of course aircraft were used on 9/11 and never physically identified by the official investigations.

Also please could you direct me to these ‘Northers’ who would have us believe that CIA agents dressed as Cuban operatives would be blowing up trains and machine gunning elementary schools?  Or was that from your imagination in attempt to discredit ‘Northers‘ with the vigilance to accept the record as a real warning of historical precedent?

Sorry, but what you're saying simply isn't in the plan.  I'm assuming you've read it?

And yes, it does point to those in the military to come up with some fairly crazy stuff.  But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous.  But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

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#18    Babe Ruth

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

View PostRafterman, on 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Sorry, but what you're saying simply isn't in the plan.  I'm assuming you've read it?

And yes, it does point to those in the military to come up with some fairly crazy stuff.  But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous.  But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

All it proves is how the government behaves.  Has behaved, for decades now.

Pure deception, as it pleases.  The public perception MUST be controlled, and the historical record kept clean.

Except when, OOPS, some whistleblower blabs or some heretofore secret document or case is declassified by accident.

Another good example of the OOPS factor is the case 345US1 from March of 1953.  US v. Reynolds.  OOPS, our bad behavior was made public.


#19    skyeagle409

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostRafterman, on 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous.  But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

I agree! :tu:

It is beyond ludicrous to think that 9/11 involved the U.S. government and to sum that up, they cannot provide evidence to backup their claim..

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#20    Q24

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostRafterman, on 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

No military officers were reprimanded for the plan.  Indeed Lemnitzer maintened his status as a four-star general and was later given a quite prestigious position as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO (formerly held by Dwight Eisenhower) where he would have overseen progress of other clandestine/untoward action; Operation Gladio (there is a parallel to be drawn between that and continued CIA connection to Al Qaeda after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan).


View PostRafterman, on 04 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous.  But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

It’s not about making a leap but building a case, of which Operation Northwoods is a useful piece of background information/historical precedent for what took place on 9/11.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#21    skyeagle409

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

View PostQ24, on 08 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

It’s not about making a leap but building a case, of which Operation Northwoods is a useful piece of background information/historical precedent for what took place on 9/11.

With no evidence to backup it up, your statement does not hold water because:

* No evidence in videos nor in the data from seismic monitors in the area that explosives were used

* No evidence the 9/11 aircraft were modified to fly under remote control

* No evidence United 93 was shot down

* No evidence of thermite cuts on structural steel

* No evidence of structural pre-weakening on WTC columns

* No evidence of a pod on United 175

* No evidence of a faked United 175 operating out of Boston airport

* No evidence that 9/11 aircraft were switched in flight

* No evidence that American 77 passed north of the gas station

* No evidence that a missile was used in the attack on the Pentagon

The list goes on and on, so the question is; Who has been making up these tales surrounding the 9/11 attacks?

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#22    Q24

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:37 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 08 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

With no evidence to backup it up, your statement does not hold water because:

Do try to have some focus skyeagle.

Your list of skewed opinion is not relevant here.

The topic is Operation Northwoods.

I'm talking about the parallel between Northwoods and 9/11; each presenting an attack as pretext for a resultant war.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#23    skyeagle409

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostQ24, on 09 November 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Do try to have some focus skyeagle.

Your list of skewed opinion is not relevant here.

The topic is Operation Northwoods.

I'm talking about the parallel between Northwoods and 9/11; each presenting an attack as pretext for a resultant war.

What I waiting for, is evidence of a Northwoods-like operation that ties the U.S. government to the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, not one shred of evidence of such an operation has surfaced.

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#24    TrueBeliever

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:37 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 09 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

What I waiting for, is evidence of a Northwoods-like operation that ties the U.S. government to the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, not one shred of evidence of such an operation has surfaced.

yes, but you are not sticking to the topic at hand...........focus!


#25    skyeagle409

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostTrueBeliever, on 10 November 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

yes, but you are not sticking to the topic at hand...........focus!

The government couldn't even keep the Watergate scandal from revealing itself all over the world, so what makes people think they could have pulled off an "Operation Northwoods"  or a similar operation, and not get caught? They would have had to understand that some people tend to talk in their sleep.

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#26    Babe Ruth

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Well they certainly understand that many, perhaps most, of the people will believe anything they are told if it is repeated enough times.  And especially if a few movies are made about it.  And if a few wars are made about it.





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