97 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

The story of Noah's Ark and the Great Flood is one of the most famous from the Bible, and now an acclaimed underwater archaeologist thinks he has found proof that the biblical flood was actually based on real events.

In an interview with Christiane Amanpour for ABC News, Robert Ballard, one of the world's best-known underwater archaeologists, talked about his findings. His team is probing the depths of the Black Sea off the coast of Turkey in search of traces of an ancient civilization hidden underwater since the time of Noah.

http://abcnews.go.co...33#.UMcxVqxqOH0

[Taun]

15 or so years ago I read something similar about the Black Sea... The explorers found domes of dirt that looked like remains of dwellings along the ancient coastline, and also found pottery shards IIRC...

Since then i've always though that the flooding of the Black Sea area could well be the inspiration for the flood myths of the bible and other cultures...  Good to see that someone is still researching this, but I hope he gives credit to the original explorers...

[Abramelin]

The problem with this Black Sea scenario is that it wasn't a catastrophic event as was previously thought, or, as someone once said, "they didn't have to run for the hills".

If there's anything close to the Deluge scenario, aside from flash-floods caused by bursting ice lakes at the end of the last ice age,  then it's the flooding of Doggerland around 6150 BC.

An area the size of California was flooded by a tsunami that lasted from 1 - 2 days (Storegga Slide).

Those who survived could have traveled (or fled) up the Rhine, and then to the Danube, to end up at the .... Black Sea coast.

Just check my latest posts in that thread:

http://www.unexplain...25#entry4567737

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 December 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[cormac mac airt]

The Black Sea Flood also wouldn't be able to answer the question of how an alleged Ark made its way from Shurrupak, Iraq (the place associated with "Noah") at an elevation of 44 feet above sea level to Agri Dagi/Mount Ararat at over 15,000 feet above sea level. The latter of which is the claimed resting spot of the Ark.

cormac

[Quaentum]

The biblical account is just a lesson IMO.  There are so many things that keep it from being a historical account.   Not least of which is environmental problems at that height which would kill anyone on a ship at that height.

[me-wonders]

Well, the subject sent me looking for information, and it seems obvious to me that the Mountains of Ararat are of great interest.

Quote

http://en.wikipedia....tains_of_Ararat

“ the ark rested on the top of a certain mountain in Armenia ... However, the Armenians call this place, αποβατηριον 'The Place of Descent'; for the ark being saved in that place, its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day. Now all the writers of barbarian histories make mention of this flood, and of this ark; among whom is Berossus. For when he is describing the circumstances of the flood, he goes on thus: "It is said there is still some part of this ship in Armenia, at the mountain of the Cordyaeans; and that some people carry off pieces of the bitumen, which they take away, and use chiefly as amulets for the averting of mischiefs." Hieronymus the Egyptian also, who wrote the Phoenician Antiquities, and Mnaseas, and a great many more, make mention of the same. Nay, Nicolaus of Damascus, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them; where he speaks thus: "There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses the legislator of the Jews wrote." (I.3.5-6, trans. William Whiston)

This region is the beginning of 4 rivers and I think it is the place of Eden.



While everyone says some of the rivers are missing, from the air, it looks like for rivers in the Mount Ararat region to me.

This information about food sources also points to this region being Eden.  

Quote

http://www.accuracyi...s.com/adam.html


Neolithic sites discovered in the core area indicate that a society with plenty of food thrived there. In sites such as Cayonu, Novali Cori, and Gobekli Tepe, impressive architecture, images, and artifacts have been found. Settlement sites are also larger in this area than many others of the same time in other parts of the Fertile Crescent. ..." (From "The Cradle of Agriculture? New Evidence Moves the World's First Farmers into Turkey" by Reagan Duplisea, http://www.discoveringarchaeology.com/ articles/ 060100-turkeyfarm.shtml)  
Genesis 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east,
that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there.

"It is known that agriculture spread from the Middle East to Europe during the Neolithic period about 12,000 years ago, but for many years archeologists have debated how this occurred. Was it due to the movement of people or to the movement of ideas? Previous genetic analysis of people living today suggests a migration - that the people moved - but critics have questioned this view. The latest study reinforces evidence of a migration in which people brought their ideas and lifestyle with them."(from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases /2002/09/ 020911072622.htm)

I think given this information about food, the finding sunken civilizations is very exciting.

About the flood not being a catastrophic event, it took time to build the ark.  One account of the flood says people moved to a higher region.  I don't know why part of the map is yellow, but doesn't this look like a flood plain?

Edited by me-wonders, 11 December 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[me-wonders]

Abramelin, on 11 December 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

The problem with this Black Sea scenario is that it wasn't a catastrophic event as was previously thought, or, as someone once said, "they didn't have to run for the hills".

If there's anything close to the Deluge scenario, aside from flash-floods caused by bursting ice lakes at the end of the last ice age,  then it's the flooding of Doggerland around 6150 BC.

An area the size of California was flooded by a tsunami that lasted from 1 - 2 days (Storegga Slide).

Those who survived could have traveled (or fled) up the Rhine, and then to the Danube, to end up at the .... Black Sea coast.

Just check my latest posts in that thread:

http://www.unexplain...25#entry4567737

.

About the flood not being

Quaentum, on 11 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

The biblical account is just a lesson IMO.  There are so many things that keep it from being a historical account.   Not least of which is environmental problems at that height which would kill anyone on a ship at that height.

I am very curious about the height.  Many ancient civilizations are built high in the mountains.  There must be a reason for this.

[Abramelin]

me-wonders, on 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

About the flood not being a catastrophic event, it took time to build the ark.  One account of the flood says people moved to a higher region.

But the flood in the Black Sea must have been nothing but a slowly and steadily rising tide because the Mediterranean started flowing over into the Black Sea. That took - what? a few decades? a century?.- before it reached the present sea level. Noah could have built a flotilla during that time, lol.

And wasn't Noah's Flood caused by rain?

About Eden:

Abramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Harran seems to have been the home of Abram (Gen 12:1,4), not Ur, though Ur, according to Cyrus Gordon, was the nearby town later called Edessa (Urfa) but which was called Urfu, at that time, not the Ur near the junction of the two rivers much further south. Apollonius Molo, even in the first century BC, tells a different story about the origin of Abraham from Genesis. The Patriarch was born in the mountainous edges of Syria, fringing on the northern steppes, after his ancestors had fled from Armenia. This description fits the same place—it is the neighbourhood of Urfa and Harran, a place known as Beth Eden (Bit Adini)! Biblicists have always know where Eden was, but they did not care to say.

http://www.askwhy.co...Patriarchs1.php

http://www.unexplain...60#entry4463031


.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[cormac mac airt]

Quote

This region is the beginning of 4 rivers and I think it is the place of Eden.

That's not, however, what the Bible claims. It says Eden was on a plain and that four rivers joined there, which would make it southern Mesopotamia/Sumer. Evidence for the other two rivers has since been found. Biblical chronology would also put it in the 4th or 3rd millenium BC, which is far removed from the Black Sea Flood. While we know the Black Sea timeframe is wrong, it's also known that the Persian Gulf suffered a marine transgression from c.4000 BC - 3000 BC. Prior to that the Persian Gulf was almost completely dry.

 Dry Persian Gulf.jpg   108.28K   12 downloads

cormac

[Quaentum]

me-wonders, on 11 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

I am very curious about the height.  Many ancient civilizations are built high in the mountains.  There must be a reason for this.

True but this isn't the same thing.  There is a difference between a civilization that lived/lives in the mountains and who would be used to the conditions and people who lived in the desert finding themselves at an elevation in excess of 17,000 feet.  Just Google the environmental conditions at the top of Mt Ararat to see what they would have been up against.

[keithisco]

Basically... the Bible says it was an inundation of the entire Planet, of course that  version of the Bible had no idea of the World's extent( many Books were not voted to be included in it) they had no concept of the land masses (such as Antarctica, North or S. America, even The Canary Islands!!). The biggest inundation of the entire European Continent was the creation of the Mediterranean Sea - but that was 5+million yrears ago.

At the time of the Ark, many , MANY  species were unknown, the Ark itself could not have housed the animals of Africa and Europe, definitely could not have fed them...

[kampz]

I'm not very educated regarding the flood or Bible(I grew up learning it but I don't remember a lot) but I don't think the flood was true to the extent we are thinking. Maybe some giant cyclones could of spawned in the Indian Ocean and moved over the Middle East. The only possible way is rapidly or instantly melting the Ice on this planet or have it rain for a long time(years)which has seemed to never happened before. This seems to be a story similar to Platos Atlantis. It was meant to teach a lesson and/or it got exaggerated greatly,

Edited by kampz, 11 December 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[Abramelin]

keithisco, on 11 December 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Basically... the Bible says it was an inundation of the entire Planet, of course that  version of the Bible had no idea of the World's extent( many Books were not voted to be included in it) they had no concept of the land masses (such as Antarctica, North or S. America, even The Canary Islands!!). The biggest inundation of the entire European Continent was the creation of the Mediterranean Sea - but that was 5+million yrears ago.

At the time of the Ark, many , MANY  species were unknown, the Ark itself could not have housed the animals of Africa and Europe, definitely could not have fed them...

Where does the Bible say the entire planet got inundated?

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 11 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Where does the Bible say the entire planet got inundated?

That's the most commonly held interpretation of Genesis Chapter 7, Verses 19 and 20.

cormac

[docyabut2]

Noah's Flood Hypothesis May Not Hold Water

such a forceful flood could not have taken place, says Jun Abrajano, professor of earth and environmental sciences at Rensselaer. He is part of an international team of scientists who refute the so-called Noah's Flood Hypothesis.
Abrajano cites evidence of a much more gradual rising of the Black Sea that began to occur 10,000 years ago and continued for 2,000 years.


http://www.scienceda...20617074814.htm