94 replies to this topic

[FurthurBB]

monkipuzzle, on 08 April 2011 - 01:14 AM, said:

A ) Homosexuality most certainly is ancient (i.e. Sodom & Gomorra), but not in the way that this article refers too…

B ) Mark 5: “(12) And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. (13) And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and were choked in the sea.

Animals have no soul, and most certainly can be both possessed and influenced by demonic forces, as the scripture above states. As such, for me, it makes perfect sense that homosexual animals are behaving in such a way due to either demonic possession or influence. God did not make homosexual animals; he (or at least Jesus, his Earthly incarnation) just gave demons permission to enter them…

C ) Hatred of course is an easier concept to understand. Turn on any television, read any newspaper and you’ll see hatred in every variety. Hatred, like love, transcends nation, cultural, and species barriers. People, at least adults, readily commit acts of hatred long before they ever consider acts of love. In this case, I cannot say why the individual was buried in this fashion; I only know that I don’t believe he was gay, at least not naturally so…

I know for a fact that the christian idea of Sodom and Gomorrah is absolutely inaccurate.  It is about hospitality and has nothing to do with homosexuality.

[IamsSon]

FurthurBB, on 08 April 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

I know for a fact that the christian idea of Sodom and Gomorrah is absolutely inaccurate.  It is about hospitality and has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Interesting.  Please present these facts.

[Helen of Annoy]

You two up there, could you take your Sodom and Gomorrah to more appropriate place?
This is getting too deep into theology.  
Thank you.  




I’ll waste no time on a Christian Taliban that tried to derail this thread. His arrogance is sin according to his belief – a belief he obviously doesn’t understand quite well - but that’s between him and his god.
The god in which I sometimes believe wouldn’t be that perverse to create soulless animals or close the heaven’s gates for people whose love was “wrong”.

Speaking of love, and wrong things, I’d rather have my husband cheat on me with a guy, because then I wouldn’t ponder “what does she have that I haven’t?”, I’d know precisely what he has and I haven’t
But he’s one of those guys that press their back against the wall with murderous look in their eyes when someone even mentions gays You might call that cavemen mentality, but – here I go back on topic – I seriously doubt homosexuality was a taboo back then.
I also seriously doubt cavemen were that misogynistic as a portion of followers of Middle East originated religions are.
It’s quite logical assumption that both genders sometimes warmed up each other a little more thorough than it’s prescribed by Nicene Creed, but it’s also quite logical to assume god is more than that bunch was able to grasp. They shaped god to their image, not the other way around. This is why such notion of god is just too childish for people blessed with IQ higher than room temperature. It was shaped by people rather stupid for today's standards. We need religious concepts closer to our minds, that did make some progress since then.

The cavemen too had religious concepts that fit their minds, how else?
They probably saw women and females in general as life givers, rather than an obstacle between men and spiritual progress. Because that’s what they saw, birth of new life, snakes included.
First deities were female, first societies matriarchal.
I can’t see what’s degrading there. Female burial for a man could only be two things: gender confusion (hermaphrodite theory) or a sign of special honour. Maybe guy was a single father and managed to do it successfully so he was honoured by female burial.  
Because even today single fathers are wonder guys who expect special admiration, while single mothers “got what they asked for” in the best or “of suspicious morality” at worst case.
Hypocrisy.
Yuck.

[Totah Dine]

The Silver Thong, on 08 April 2011 - 07:14 AM, said:

  I see a funky monkey here that doesn't understand he's a monkey   your bias makes me feel I may be a higher species of monkey.  Your integration of religion is a bias of bias. How do you not get that?


Trained monkeys do as they are told until the monkey learns to think in a critical manner. Most monkeys get slapped for doing that due to training. Now get your damn dirty hands off me.

The irony here is hilarious.  If you're going to spout fundamentalist rhetoric then maybe you should delve more deeply into your faith.  You'll be quite surprised.  Ad Hominem attacks do not support your position.  It just shows a lack of originality and intellect.

Edited by Totah Dine, 08 April 2011 - 06:41 PM.

[puridalan]

monkipuzzle, on 07 April 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

Homosexuality is not natural. As I am a Christian, I believe that there are only teo sins than cannot be forgiven: blasphemy and suicide. Beyond that all sins are equal, thus lying, killing, homosexuality, etc are all equally bad in the eyes of the Father. Like any other sin, homosexuality is a temptation on certain individual's souls, and their practice of such a lifestyle demonstrates an undeniable lack of moral character and will power. I may agree that some people are born that way, if for no other reason than to be a test of the flesh for them in this life, but they have it within themselves to raise above it. The so-called proof of natural homosexuality in animals and pagan cultures is in my opinion no justification for it, as (1) animals have no soul and thus cannot be used as human analogues in such a view, (2) pagan cultures do not know the true God and thus do not know any better, and (3) both can be possessed, or at the very least, influenced by demonic entities who seek to corrupt.

Homosexuality may not be new, but it is most certainly not natural, and those who have such temptations should remove themselves from a venue where can can pursue such a lifestyle...

Do you honestly think killing and being gay are the same?? You are saying that being gay is as equal as killing. So if you did have children or not or say a close friend/family...you would not mind a being who could kill one of your family members vs. someone who is just gay at your house...I mean when you really think about it there is no comparison. One has a motive to KILL someone, while the other has no intent to harm another being. I FULLY understand that this is in your religion and what you believe..but you simply cannot state the two are equal..at least in the form that a homosexual does not kill and the other does...because if they both were equal then people would naturally COULD pick a killer over a homosexual to live with them and kill them...it just won't happen.

And for your statement "pagan cultures do not know the true god and thus do not know any better" Who says you know the true god? Who says you have the right to tell someone they do not know a true god? What is the difference from your god from their 'pagan' god...is it merely the name or what? Because I guranttee you not everyone globally says "God" for we all speak many  tongues and I gurantee you it was not pronouced GOD back thousands of years ago.

[puridalan]

Back on Topic, yes Helen you bring up some great points, beings often forget that some women were some of the most influential and powerful leaders some still are today. In fact it is intersting to see in some of the paintings as women being the higher 'road' while men often most serving them, but things go in and out of trend haha, so it is very possible that the burial could of been one of honour and not shame. I also believe that beings in this age can get way to caught up on gender and back then every member was seen as an important part..and today members jsut seem scattered and tossed aside..so it is interesting to see that side as well.

[OverSword]

Helen of Annoy, on 08 April 2011 - 06:41 PM, said:

You two up there, could you take your Sodom and Gomorrah to more appropriate place?
This is getting too deep into theology.  
Thank you.  




I’ll waste no time on a Christian Taliban that tried to derail this thread. His arrogance is sin according to his belief – a belief he obviously doesn’t understand quite well - but that’s between him and his god.
The god in which I sometimes believe wouldn’t be that perverse to create soulless animals or close the heaven’s gates for people whose love was “wrong”.

Speaking of love, and wrong things, I’d rather have my husband cheat on me with a guy, because then I wouldn’t ponder “what does she have that I haven’t?”, I’d know precisely what he has and I haven’t
But he’s one of those guys that press their back against the wall with murderous look in their eyes when someone even mentions gays You might call that cavemen mentality, but – here I go back on topic – I seriously doubt homosexuality was a taboo back then.
I also seriously doubt cavemen were that misogynistic as a portion of followers of Middle East originated religions are.
It’s quite logical assumption that both genders sometimes warmed up each other a little more thorough than it’s prescribed by Nicene Creed, but it’s also quite logical to assume god is more than that bunch was able to grasp. They shaped god to their image, not the other way around. This is why such notion of god is just too childish for people blessed with IQ higher than room temperature. It was shaped by people rather stupid for today's standards. We need religious concepts closer to our minds, that did make some progress since then.

The cavemen too had religious concepts that fit their minds, how else?
They probably saw women and females in general as life givers, rather than an obstacle between men and spiritual progress. Because that’s what they saw, birth of new life, snakes included.
First deities were female, first societies matriarchal.
I can’t see what’s degrading there. Female burial for a man could only be two things: gender confusion (hermaphrodite theory) or a sign of special honour. Maybe guy was a single father and managed to do it successfully so he was honoured by female burial.  
Because even today single fathers are wonder guys who expect special admiration, while single mothers “got what they asked for” in the best or “of suspicious morality” at worst case.
Hypocrisy.
Yuck.

"Claps"  Don't forget to remind your husband how cool the handsome American guy from the internet thinks you are.

[jknightx]

My question is..WHAT DARN DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? Imean if this person way gay or not,is it really all that relevent to ancient history? homosexaulity  happens,so what?

[Helen of Annoy]

puridalan, on 08 April 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

Back on Topic, yes Helen you bring up some great points, beings often forget that some women were some of the most influential and powerful leaders some still are today. In fact it is intersting to see in some of the paintings as women being the higher 'road' while men often most serving them, but things go in and out of trend haha, so it is very possible that the burial could of been one of honour and not shame. I also believe that beings in this age can get way to caught up on gender and back then every member was seen as an important part..and today members jsut seem scattered and tossed aside..so it is interesting to see that side as well.

In my imagination, it looked like this...
Guy:  “Hey, I want to rule now! It’s my turn!”
Girl: “I’m not ruling, you moron, I’m organizing!”
Guy: “So, I’m not smart enough to organize?”
Girl: “Well, you are, but your nature is a little... haste? It’s great for emergency situations, but... ”
Guy: “Aha, so I can rule in emergency?”
Girl: “Oh, all right, screw it, it makes sense.”
And so women let men take over in emergencies, where brute force and mercilessness were needed more than careful planning and compassion, but much like pyromaniacs are often volunteering fire-fighters, emergencies soon became more often than ever, and before you knew it, humanity was stuck in eternal emergency and patriarchate took over.

I’m slightly annoyed with it and I hope to live long enough to see the granddaughter generation self-confident enough to put a lid on that perpetual emergency. Humanity needs a break. Who knows, we might actually use it for some real progress.

OverSword, on 08 April 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

"Claps"  Don't forget to remind your husband how cool the handsome American guy from the internet thinks you are.

Yup, did that today!
We had a humorous altercation, and I said that not only I can find myself a guy that appreciates me, I already found few of them. On the internet, mind you.
“In that case, I beg you to take one that lives the furthest from here.”
I think that’s you.

jknightx, on 09 April 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

My question is..WHAT DARN DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? Imean if this person way gay or not,is it really all that relevent to ancient history? homosexaulity  happens,so what?

Oh, come on, it’s intriguing. It would be cool to know the whole story, with or without gayness, it’s fascinating to see a grave so old and take at least a peek into lives of ancestors.

[puridalan]

Helen
I also remember though that some of the most infamous deprogression of women has been by women. I have my own partial theory for it. It is this women or women with power that have had greed or whatever gone to their head, feel that women are more of a threat than men. Which is a compliment and insult in itself. The fact that another women finds another women more dangerous means that we are more saavy in other venues men may be not. On the other hand it results in things like women getting the last rights and still not being paid fairly ie the glass ceiling. Not to say obviously all women de progress women...no merely an example. In all it shows that as a whole their is much growth for acceptance/respect of anothers race, ethnicity, religions, values, beliefs, arts, expressions..and well the list goes on. Kids are great to be around especailly younger kids as they have not been fully imposed/manipulated with others prejudices and they just are. Infants are even more interesting in that up to six months of age they can understand the sounds in every language...after six months it seems to disspear, something I learned years ago I'd have to pull up a source but found it interesting.

THe good news is there is always pleasant beings to be around, sometimes you just have to search for them! haha

[Corp]

http://edition.cnn.c...rial/index.html

Backlash of the first news has started and they make good points. First off 5,000 years ago we had moved far beyond being cavemen. Likewise you can't tell if someone is gay or not just by looking at their bones. The burial is very odd but there are several possible answers to why it was set up the way it was. Just because he was buried in a way that was normally done for men doesn't make him gay. After all these days we don't have gay men being buried in dresses instead of suits. After all from the sounds of it we know very little about this culture.

[Helen of Annoy]

puridalan, on 09 April 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

Helen
I also remember though that some of the most infamous deprogression of women has been by women. I have my own partial theory for it. It is this women or women with power that have had greed or whatever gone to their head, feel that women are more of a threat than men. Which is a compliment and insult in itself. The fact that another women finds another women more dangerous means that we are more saavy in other venues men may be not. On the other hand it results in things like women getting the last rights and still not being paid fairly ie the glass ceiling. Not to say obviously all women de progress women...no merely an example. In all it shows that as a whole their is much growth for acceptance/respect of anothers race, ethnicity, religions, values, beliefs, arts, expressions..and well the list goes on. Kids are great to be around especailly younger kids as they have not been fully imposed/manipulated with others prejudices and they just are. Infants are even more interesting in that up to six months of age they can understand the sounds in every language...after six months it seems to disspear, something I learned years ago I'd have to pull up a source but found it interesting.

THe good news is there is always pleasant beings to be around, sometimes you just have to search for them! haha

Well, some women think they have to become men in order to achieve something, others are terrified of “competition”, some underestimate themselves because they seriously believe women are less worthy etc. So much confusion, so many reasons... and it all could be so simple if people were not so damn rigid about everything.
I’ve noticed that both men and women tend to become pestilence for others when they take themselves too seriously. And that usually comes with chronic lack of self-confidence. What a combo.
  

Corp, on 11 April 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

http://edition.cnn.c...rial/index.html

Backlash of the first news has started and they make good points. First off 5,000 years ago we had moved far beyond being cavemen. Likewise you can't tell if someone is gay or not just by looking at their bones. The burial is very odd but there are several possible answers to why it was set up the way it was. Just because he was buried in a way that was normally done for men doesn't make him gay. After all these days we don't have gay men being buried in dresses instead of suits. After all from the sounds of it we know very little about this culture.

Well, at first, before glancing the article, I thought they actually confirmed his gayness by examining his bones. And I was astonished... my god, how gay you have to be to actually leave a mark on your bones? One’s ass is not exactly bony part of body where your activities can leave any trace on bones or joints.

[OverSword]

Corp, on 11 April 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

http://edition.cnn.c...rial/index.html

Backlash of the first news has started and they make good points. First off 5,000 years ago we had moved far beyond being cavemen. Likewise you can't tell if someone is gay or not just by looking at their bones. The burial is very odd but there are several possible answers to why it was set up the way it was. Just because he was buried in a way that was normally done for men doesn't make him gay. After all these days we don't have gay men being buried in dresses instead of suits. After all from the sounds of it we know very little about this culture.

So my hypothesis was the most likely.  I guess that makes me king of the thread, ruling over all of the females and homosexuals posting in it.  Helen, don't forget to pay your taxes!

[Pandora7321]

OverSword, on 11 April 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

So my hypothesis was the most likely.  I guess that makes me king of the thread, ruling over all of the females and homosexuals posting in it.  Helen, don't forget to pay your taxes!

No, it doesn't.

[Helen of Annoy]

OverSword, on 11 April 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

So my hypothesis was the most likely.  I guess that makes me king of the thread, ruling over all of the females and homosexuals posting in it.  Helen, don't forget to pay your taxes!

My king, don’t forget to write your last will before you come and get your taxes