37 replies to this topic

[lightly]

One thing helping to create this mess is issuing  non-citizens social security cards .  Why?  So they can pay into the systems [FICA/Medicare]   $$$$$$

Now 'they' are given credit for time worked outside of country.  {bush adm.]  So many  are "vested' in S.S.  .. in a few years.

  The reason for the welfare is the same reason $$$$$$  ...  Food Stamps/Cards =  MONEY into the  'economy' / Corporations.  

  Same reason for dolling out Medicaid to non citizens..  Free Care and Drugs = MONEY to the "health care INDUSTRY  and  the Drug Companies•  


  It's always about channeling money into the 'right' pockets.  That has become the primary function of out government•    Hello?


* Oh,  .. simple solution.. don't give SS cards or welfare to non citizens• I'm not heartless, and immigrants are welcome in the U.S. , but the handouts cause too many Dependent immigrants  .


'We'  cause so many of our own problems by pandering to BIG  interests •

Edited by lightly, 21 November 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[Mantis914]

jugoso, on 21 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Spoken like a true bigot!!

That's not being a bigot...
I don't know about you but when I go to a foreign country, I try to learn the law and language of the land so I can fit in.  I personally applaud all the Mexican nationals and Central Americans that have come through our ESL program and successfully can communicate in English and who are working to get their "papers"/"papeles".  I can see who is trying and who is not and there are people that have been here years upon years and do not want to speak one word of English which is only doing them harm because they are missing out on what is going on in the rest of the country or city out there and limiting themselves just to their little barrio.

[Mantis914]

CommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

I cannot speak for all states, but I can speak for my state and you are wrong about it. You also assume that all immigrants do not bring their families here. They may send money back, but that is until they get their families here. And even if they do, they are still providing labor, often cheap labor, for businesses. They help small business owners, which are part of our economy. Finally, if you look at polls and comments by people that have actually come from places such as Africa, they are far more greedy than Americans. They actually send money back to their home countires less. They do not believe in sending chairty to the countries they came from. They come to America and they pick up the greedy attitude quite quickly. They would rather keep their money and spend it here, not send it back home.

Greedy American attitude, huh?  And this post is about what now????

[Sherapy]

FurthurBB, on 21 November 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I have felt for a long time that even though letting anyone in the country is part of our rich history it might be time to change that way of thinking.  In this day and age if you let a whole lot of unskilled, uneducated workers a lot of them will end up needing assistance.  We could at least limit the number and give some priority to those who we know can support themselves.

I went to tax school and was offered a management position ( my own tax store) a few years back. During management training, I was floored at the amount of fraud that is committed here, in the United States; in specific,  EIC (Earned Income Credit). I can tell you this, it is the American citizens   committing the legalized' fraud and scapegoating on the immigrant. We need to start in our own back yard.

The US needs serious tax reform and better regulations in place.

I literally turned down the job. I want no part of exploiting anyone.


http://www.irs.gov/I...ons-and-Answers

Edited by Sherapy, 21 November 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Mantis914, on 21 November 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Greedy American attitude, huh?  And this post is about what now????

American are individualistic...Do you disagree with that? I consider individualistic to be selfish or greedy. The post was in response to the statement that immigrants just send money back to their home countries. No, they do not. Many of them support their home countries less than Americans that are not from there do...

[aztek]

jugoso, on 21 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Spoken like a true bigot!!

why? cuz you're mexican and you feel it is directed against your pisanos?? well yea, it is.  i personally sick of ppl that i have to work with, that don't speak a word of English, and don't even want to learn.
when in rome do as romans do. imo fair enough

[Mantis914]

CommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

American are individualistic...Do you disagree with that? I consider individualistic to be selfish or greedy. The post was in response to the statement that immigrants just send money back to their home countries. No, they do not. Many of them support their home countries less than Americans that are not from there do...

I can't say I agree with that when you've got a smorgasbord of companies to send money back to other countries such as Moneygram, Western Union, Chase Bank, ATMcash and if it wasn't a multi-million maybe even billion dollar business, none of these companies would be involved in it.

Whether we like it or not, Americans are charitable because our tax dollars pay for foreign aid all over the world even to countries we consider enemies...
When natural disasters happen such at the tsunami that hit SE Asia or the earthquake in Haiti, Americans gave money and helped along side many other nations, so, no, I would not consider Americans in general to be selfish or greedy people...

[aztek]

CommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

American are individualistic...Do you disagree with that? I consider individualistic to be selfish or greedy. The post was in response to the statement that immigrants just send money back to their home countries. No, they do not. Many of them support their home countries less than Americans that are not from there do...

lol, really?? absolutely wrong.  doesn't matter what you consider, the word has definition, google it.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Mantis914, on 22 November 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

I can't say I agree with that when you've got a smorgasbord of companies to send money back to other countries such as Moneygram, Western Union, Chase Bank, ATMcash and if it wasn't a multi-million maybe even billion dollar business, none of these companies would be involved in it.

Whether we like it or not, Americans are charitable because our tax dollars pay for foreign aid all over the world even to countries we consider enemies...
When natural disasters happen such at the tsunami that hit SE Asia or the earthquake in Haiti, Americans gave money and helped along side many other nations, so, no, I would not consider Americans in general to be selfish or greedy people...

I am not saying that people do not send money back. If you read what I said, I said that people that have families here do not send money back. They often do if they have families back home. Is there money to be made off of that? Sure...but that is not the main focus of those companies and even if it is a multi-billion dollar business, that is not saying much...it seems like everything is these days...I mean Hannah Montanna is a billion dollar industry...

Greed and self-interest are the driving force of capitalism.

aztek, on 22 November 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

lol, really?? absolutely wrong.  doesn't matter what you consider, the word has definition, google it.

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that stresses "the moral worth of the individual".^[1] Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance^[2] while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or institutions such as the government.

Selfishness is placing concern with oneself or one's own interests above the well-being or interests of others.

Alright, so they are not analogous, but the point is that people are focused on what is best for themselves, not the country or the world as a whole. Many of these immigrants are concerned with their own well-being, not the country they left. Greed and self-interest is the driving force of capitalism.

[F3SS]

CommunitarianKevin, on 22 November 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Greed and self-interest are the driving force of capitalism.

I disagree. I say it's a possible adverse size effect.

[WoIverine]

aztek, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

why? cuz you're mexican and you feel it is directed against your pisanos?? well yea, it is.  i personally sick of ppl that i have to work with, that don't speak a word of English, and don't even want to learn.
when in rome do as romans do. imo fair enough

Agreed, if I lived anywhere else, to survive on my own and not be a burden to soceity, I would have to learn the language.

[jugoso]

Mantis914, on 21 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

That's not being a bigot...
I don't know about you but when I go to a foreign country, I try to learn the law and language of the land so I can fit in.  I personally applaud all the Mexican nationals and Central Americans that have come through our ESL program and successfully can communicate in English and who are working to get their "papers"/"papeles".  I can see who is trying and who is not and there are people that have been here years upon years and do not want to speak one word of English which is only doing them harm because they are missing out on what is going on in the rest of the country or city out there and limiting themselves just to their little barrio.

My problem with the original comment was that he insisted the immigrant learn English before they come. I find that to be a highly prejudicial if not bigoted statement. It´s very difficult for many people to become proficient in English in their country of origin. Your post mainly refers to people after they have already arrived and their willingness to learn. I wasn´t commenting on that so really doesn´t apply to my comment. To be clear,  I certainly think that upon arrival in a country where a foreign language is spoken and if planning on staying a person should begin / continue to learn that language.

aztek, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

why? cuz you're mexican and you feel it is directed against your pisanos?? well yea, it is.  i personally sick of ppl that i have to work with, that don't speak a word of English, and don't even want to learn.
when in rome do as romans do. imo fair enough

First off, I´m not Mexican, Secondly,as mentioned above, I think it is unrealistic to expect all immigrants to speak English before they arrive here. Not surprised to see you jump in  here nor read your comment. And I can only imagine how much  my "paisanos" must love working with you.

WoIverine, on 22 November 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:

Agreed, if I lived anywhere else, to survive on my own and not be a burden to soceity, I would have to learn the language.

To be proficient before you arrived? Hopefully you´d be in a situation where you could afforde the luxury. Many are not.

[jugoso]

double-post

Edited by jugoso, 22 November 2012 - 08:38 AM.

[aztek]

jugoso, on 22 November 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

, I think it is unrealistic to expect all immigrants to speak English before they arrive here. Not surprised to see you jump in  here nor read your comment. And I can only imagine how much  my "paisanos" must love working with you.

i never said they have to know English before coming here, i have no problem with ppl that donj't speak yet, but take all steps to learn, those that don't speak, but make sure they will be understood, either thru translator on the phone, or by other means, who i do have problem with is those that don't speak and think it is my problem to figure wtf they are talking about. those don't work for me longer than 1 day, and i,m sure they hate every minute of it, but those that see their no English situation is their problem, and it is them who have to work on it,  work for me for a long time, and get good pay, and treated with respect they deserve.

[keithisco]

Having just returned from a 4 week vacation in New York and Florida, I was surprised to see almost all signs written in both Spanish and English. Particularly evident in the Airports (Newark and Orlando).

There appears to be no need to learn English (even stores have bi-lingual signs) ... so who is to blame for the fact that many people do not learn English?? In fact I came across a couple of "Farmer boys" , of US Stock, and I could not understand a word of what they were saying.