49 replies to this topic

[OverSword]

and then, on 12 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

[/b]

I wouldn't worry overmuch about that detail.  Since the amount of debt we have can literally never be repaid, we'll just go bankrupt like Europe and the rest of the world in a few years.
We agree about the stupidity of the war.  And to be specific about your lack of manners:
"highly decorated and much more knowledgable than the ingorant flag waivers trying to imply that my lack of support for war is somehow unpatriotic."  Looking down the nose at people who are trying to be patriotic( a relatively rare thing these days) is just rude.  Implying that they are dumb is also arrogant.

I assume you mean can't lterally, not can.  I don't think it's realistic to believe the fed has loaned this amount to our government without expecting to be paid back, it may take generations but they will not just write this off and eat it.  As far as my being offensive for reffering to people that IMHO haven't thought this war through much farther than what the media has told them to think, as ignorant flag waivers, that's fine, I accept your opinion but that hasn't changed mine.

[Ryinrea]

Jesus, its like the My Lai Massacre. Withdraw troop now.

Edited by Ryinrea, 13 March 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[and then]

Ryinrea, on 13 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Jesus, its like the My Lai Massacre. Withdraw troop now.

It's actually almost nothing like My Lai. There a US officer ordered his men into a village and took reprisal against people said to be sympathizers.  There was premeditation and the chain of command came into play .  I remember the hearings...it was a really big deal.  Between 350 and 500 civilians were slaughtered by a full platoon of US Army infantry soldiers.  This event in Afghanistan has all the signs of a single mentally unbalanced shooter going Rambo.  Happens here in America a few times a year.  It doesn't make it any less horrific, especially with murdered, helpless babies but I think My Lai is a bad comparison just on the scope of the massacre...
And I completely agree with you: WITHDRAW TROOPS NOW!

[Ryinrea]

and then, on 13 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

It's actually almost nothing like My Lai. There a US officer ordered his men into a village and took reprisal against people said to be sympathizers.  There was premeditation and the chain of command came into play .  I remember the hearings...it was a really big deal.  Between 350 and 500 civilians were slaughtered by a full platoon of US Army infantry soldiers.  This event in Afghanistan has all the signs of a single mentally unbalanced shooter going Rambo.  Happens here in America a few times a year.  It doesn't make it any less horrific, especially with murdered, helpless babies but I think My Lai is a bad comparison just on the scope of the massacre...
And I completely agree with you: WITHDRAW TROOPS NOW!

Ah, I was just saying that off the top of my head since that's the only massacre they talk about in school other than other ancient massacres in war. Thought after I read your post, I tend to agree that its nothing like the My Lai massacre. Apparently, a whole family was taken out including woman and children a like.

[and then]

Ryinrea, on 13 March 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Ah, I was just saying that off the top of my head since that's the only massacre they talk about in school other than other ancient massacres in war. Thought after I read your post, I tend to agree that its nothing like the My Lai massacre. Apparently, a whole family was taken out including woman and children a like.

Yeah...one way it may become very similar is the pressure it caused for ending the war.  Between the Tet offensive and My Lai America got a big dose of just how nasty that war had become.  I have great respect for our military but they are only human and they've been under horrible stress for a decade.

[bouncer]

and then, on 13 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

It's actually almost nothing like My Lai. There a US officer ordered his men into a village and took reprisal against people said to be sympathizers.  There was premeditation and the chain of command came into play .  I remember the hearings...it was a really big deal.  Between 350 and 500 civilians were slaughtered by a full platoon of US Army infantry soldiers.  This event in Afghanistan has all the signs of a single mentally unbalanced shooter going Rambo.  Happens here in America a few times a year.  It doesn't make it any less horrific, especially with murdered, helpless babies but I think My Lai is a bad comparison just on the scope of the massacre...
And I completely agree with you: WITHDRAW TROOPS NOW!

seems it was actually a group  of soldiers, not a lone gunman

http://rt.com/news/a...k-shooting-373/

[and then]

bouncer, on 13 March 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

seems it was actually a group  of soldiers, not a lone gunman

http://rt.com/news/a...k-shooting-373/

I just read a story on msnbc where the sergeant admitted doing it and demanded a lawyer...

http://worldnews.msn...e-said-i-did-it

Who knows...but you can trust RT to be anti American in everything they publish.

[Yamato]

and then, on 13 March 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I just read a story on msnbc where the sergeant admitted doing it and demanded a lawyer...

http://worldnews.msn...e-said-i-did-it

Who knows...but you can trust RT to be anti American in everything they publish.

Not anti-American at all in anything they publish.  They just report facts the US media doesn't care to and they don't care whether folks like you complain that RT isn't kissing the government's butt enough.

A big part of news should be analyzing and criticizing what our government is doing both domestically and in the world.  Reporting selective facts without criticism and expecting people to draw intelligent conclusions from what they want us to hear isn't good enough.  News should consist of intrepid reporters asking our elected officials the tough questions, not handling them with kid gloves like they're some kind of royalty.  Bureaucrats don't deserve gentle treatment.  They're already untouchable enough and the media gives them that favor.

[and then]

Yamato, on 14 March 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Not anti-American at all in anything they publish.  They just report facts the US media doesn't care to and they don't care whether folks like you complain that RT isn't kissing the government's butt enough.

A big part of news should be analyzing and criticizing what our government is doing both domestically and in the world.  Reporting selective facts without criticism and expecting people to draw intelligent conclusions from what they want us to hear isn't good enough.  News should consist of intrepid reporters asking our elected officials the tough questions, not handling them with kid gloves like they're some kind of royalty.  Bureaucrats don't deserve gentle treatment.  They're already untouchable enough and the media gives them that favor.

Fair enough.  Have you heard this "news" from any other source since they reported it?  I have been looking and cannot find a second source for it.  There has been mention of alcohol being found among his kit but no one has said that he actually was drinking.  The fact that he was found low crawling back toward the base and immediately asked for a lawyer makes his situation very suspect to me but the accusation that there was a group of shooters so far is unsupported.  
I read lots of news sources and have never read a single comment in RT that was favorable to the US.  They are like the Russian version of MSNBC except they tee off on the whole country instead of just conservatives.

[Robbie333]

OverSword, on 12 March 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

This is too far from the only incident of this type, not only in Afghanistan, but every war.  It's nice that you think these guys are defending our freedom, but my opinion is that the poor and middle class get duped into sacrificing thier lives and apparenly thier sanity on behalf of some very rich people's power trips and financial gains.  

They're over there fighting terroists, I wonder how many recruits the terrorist just got due to this, the Koran burning and whow knows how many other unreported incidents.  I don't respect the military, I feel sorry for them.  

I'm against America fighting sustained wars on foriegn soil.  If and when we are invaded by a foriegn power, I will gladly do my part as my family has in the revolutionary war, the war of 1812, the civil war, WWI, WWII and Korea.  When I asked my grandfather about his experience's in war he told me never join the military and pray you're never drafted into a war.  He would not talk further or watch movies about war.  He was also highly decorated and much more knowledgable than the ingorant flag waivers trying to imply that my lack of support for war is somehow unpatriotic.  I'm an American, and I believe in freedom.  I beleive in the rights of others to obtain thier own freedom, not have it force fed to them by the united states going in there and telling them what type of freedom we will allow them to enjoy.

        So when all of our brave men and women went to Europe and the South Pacific to fight the Nazis and Japanese Imperial army it was interceding. France, Germany, Phillipines, etc, etc did not like or want our help? You sir want the freedom and the thanklessness you give those of us whom gave blood and lives for freedoms. I am highly offended by your statements. I hope you can, which I serious doubt you would have the courage, defend yourself when it comes time. Good day. That is all I have to say.

[OverSword]

Robbie333, on 14 March 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

So when all of our brave men and women went to Europe and the South Pacific to fight the Nazis and Japanese Imperial army it was interceding. France, Germany, Phillipines, etc, etc did not like or want our help? You sir want the freedom and the thanklessness you give those of us whom gave blood and lives for freedoms. I am highly offended by your statements. I hope you can, which I serious doubt you would have the courage, defend yourself when it comes time. Good day. That is all I have to say.

What you're not getting Robbie333, is that the people we went over to fight were poor and middle class people duped by the rich and the powerful people of thier own countries into invading.  You assume it's just the rich and the powerful of the USA I'm talking about when I'm refrering to the rich and the powerful and the poor and the duped on both sides.  But if you believe that war is good noble and necessary........have at brother.

[Robbie333]

OverSword, on 16 March 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

What you're not getting Robbie333, is that the people we went over to fight were poor and middle class people duped by the rich and the powerful people of thier own countries into invading.  You assume it's just the rich and the powerful of the USA I'm talking about when I'm refrering to the rich and the powerful and the poor and the duped on both sides.  But if you believe that war is good noble and necessary........have at brother.

       Okay, I am taking a deep breath. I do not believe that war is good and knoble. I hate war and fighting and I am a retired soldier. Sometimes war is a fact of life that has to be done to protect our freedoms as well as protect those whom cannot protect themselves. For a man or woman to fight for these causes is where knoble comes in.

[OverSword]

Robbie333, on 16 March 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Okay, I am taking a deep breath. I do not believe that war is good and knoble. I hate war and fighting and I am a retired soldier. Sometimes war is a fact of life that has to be done to protect our freedoms as well as protect those whom cannot protect themselves. For a man or woman to fight for these causes is where knoble comes in.

Robbie, I apologize for any disrespect you interpreted in my posts on this thread.  In principal I agree with you that sometime a war may be necessary. The reasons why I don't believe that our presence in the middle east is no longer warranted for the reasons stated by our government are many and varied, and really just too long and involved to get into in depth in this forum.

[Robbie333]

OverSword, on 16 March 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Robbie, I apologize for any disrespect you interpreted in my posts on this thread.  In principal I agree with you that sometime a war may be necessary. The reasons why I don't believe that our presence in the middle east is no longer warranted for the reasons stated by our government are many and varied, and really just too long and involved to get into in depth in this forum.

        To make a long story short, yes, its time to come home. We will never change anything in  Afghanistan. I felt we should never have gone in at all. I fought many firefights in a country we were not in and it never changed a damn thing. Get rid of the labs and kill all involved and two weeks later another lab crops up. Sometimes it is pointless. Either go in full force and take care of business or stay home is my motto. I hate to admit this but we have bigger problems than Afghanistan on the horizon and we should be preparing for this. I think the power struggle has just begun. Have a good dayl.

[OverSword]

Robbie333, on 16 March 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

To make a long story short, yes, its time to come home. We will never change anything in  Afghanistan. I felt we should never have gone in at all. I fought many firefights in a country we were not in and it never changed a damn thing. Get rid of the labs and kill all involved and two weeks later another lab crops up. Sometimes it is pointless. Either go in full force and take care of business or stay home is my motto. I hate to admit this but we have bigger problems than Afghanistan on the horizon and we should be preparing for this. I think the power struggle has just begun. Have a good dayl.

Same to you brother.