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How much do looks matter for Christians?


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#136    ranrod

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:19 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 15 February 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

The demons also believe in Jesus, and they shudder!  I have never seen Jesus either, and I believe in him.  But that alone is not faith.  Leastaways this alone is not a living faith.  The book of James deals with this and says that Faith, unless accompanied by works, is a dead faith.

That's not to say that we are saved by our works.  It is still Grace through faith.  But our works are a natural extension of our Faith, if they are not there then we must question whether the faith is there also.

View Posteuroninja, on 15 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Native people in Israel are "ethnic" Caucasians.
ah, we've found one of those people who thinks Jesus was white... If you learned as a matter of fact that Jesus was dark brown or even more African looking (...the Jews were African slaves after all according to the bible), would you stop following Christianity?


#137    Mr Walker

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:17 AM

View Postranrod, on 16 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

But Jesus being a historical figure is not a fact.  A lie is a lie even if billions believe it.  The truth is the truth even if no one believes it.
Do you think there was a historical Jesus?  ...I'm not quite sure where you stand on that.
Bronze-age cultures invented the pre-cursors to Judaism and Christianity, and didn't have the slightest clue what was causing the things that were happening to them.  Why are their opinions more valid than ours?  How likely are their tales to be accurate?  I'd say no more than that of tribal men living in isolation today.
...btw, in answer to a previous post of yours, there are plenty of ugly people in the world with a ton of charisma.  A historical Jesus (if there was one), could look like the guy on the left of my original post, and be charismatic enough to gather followers.
Of course there was an historical jesus Traditional history is pretty clear on this.

His divinity is an entirely different question But cults (small groups of christs followers) sprang up in the local area based on christ's teachings immediately, and local shrines appeared. There were christian churches in the "local" area with in a couple of decades of christ's death and the roman records document christian followers in rome within about 3 decades of christ's death All that is historical fact

There are no writings about christ from his time, but there are writings about the followers of christ and about christian churches within  a decade or two of his death .

Judaism evolved from both babylonian and egyptian religious beliefs (not suprisingly) But the early hebiru (or children of the dust) remade god into the form of god we know today. This occered probably for two reasons There comitmnnet to historical timelines with geneaologies and linear concepts of time and their concept of a personal god who walked with them individually. This process is explained in "The gifts of the jews" by thomas cahill. They also transformed nomadic gods (and associated laws for living) into ones for settled and family- based pastoralists and agrarians. Christ WAS NOT considered ugly by the people of his time and place. He might have been ordinary looking but this is unlikely. He was tall for his society, a strong man, fit and healthy and used to manual labour.  Peter, who was a very big and strong man, and very physical in nature, deferred to him. He was ALSO very charismatic Men and women found him attractive While not overtly stated all this is implicit within the gospels.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#138    ranrod

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 16 February 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Of course there was an historical jesus Traditional history is pretty clear on this.

His divinity is an entirely different question But cults (small groups of christs followers) sprang up in the local area based on christ's teachings immediately, and local shrines appeared. There were christian churches in the "local" area with in a couple of decades of christ's death and the roman records document christian followers in rome within about 3 decades of christ's death All that is historical fact

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a historical fact, but that's a subject of a different topic.
Good looks are subjective and culturally dependent.  It could be that he would be considered ugly today, but handsome back in the day.
I still think if a middle-eastern who could be characterized as tall, handsome, and charismatic, walked up to people in America and said that he was the son of God and they should follow him, Americans would rather call the FBI on him.  Yet they pray every day to a middle-eastern man painted to look as white as possible.  Ironic.
Can you provide an example of what he might have looked like?


#139    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postranrod, on 16 February 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a historical fact, but that's a subject of a different topic.
Good looks are subjective and culturally dependent.  It could be that he would be considered ugly today, but handsome back in the day.
I still think if a middle-eastern who could be characterized as tall, handsome, and charismatic, walked up to people in America and said that he was the son of God and they should follow him, Americans would rather call the FBI on him.  Yet they pray every day to a middle-eastern man painted to look as white as possible.  Ironic.
Can you provide an example of what he might have looked like?

No one really knows what he looked like, but we know many things about him, such as his age and background, fitness level and how others reacted to him. I would think he looked like what a tall,  dark, handsome  person of his "race" or ethnic background looks like today. Particularly one who eats very healthily, and who walks every where, often many miles in a day and hundreds of miles in some weeks.

He would have the body of an athlete, with almost no fat but  lot of muscle and sinew. It is probable that he had long hair and a beard, given the customs of the time and his religious background.

I've never been in a church where images of jesus showed a white man ie a northern european. At  the very least he  appears olive skinned and of middle eastern  extraction. Sometimes his skin is a darker brown but certainly not "negroid" or "caucasian" Generally his nose is "sterotypically" semitic or jewish ie long and narrow possibly with a slight hook on its end. These are paintings or images from last century and, i think, show a fair appreciation of what a real  jewish jesus would have looked like.
I kind of like this guy as a slightly older, modern day, jesus
Posted Image
Ironic huh?

http://islamizationw...madinejads.html

Edited by Mr Walker, 18 February 2013 - 01:26 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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