4027 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

Abe today on Historum (thread closed):
"Can we go back to the OLB?"

Sure.

So, since we are all genuinely interested in the OLB, let's unite forces and pose some relevant research questions that we can focus on.

For example:

1) AUTHENTICITY
Is there any hard evidence against OLB's authenticity?

2) IDEOLOGY
What ideas as described in OLB can be 'dangerous' or questionable, and what ideas can be relevant and inspiring in our time?

3) SCRIPT & LANGUAGE
The letters U and V seem to have been used at random. Yet there are words with both U and V and some words seem to have been consequently spelled with one of the two. Can we find out if they represented a different sound?
U can be as in the English "puck" and Dutch "druk", or as in the Dutch "muur" and German fühl, or as in the German "Schule" and Eglish "you", or ...?

Edited by Otharus, 23 July 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[The Puzzler]

1. Not unless the paper can be shown to be modern unquestionably imo.

2. That requires more thought before I answer.

3. Yes, it's an odd one, I've been thinking about that one since I thought svn was really sven, in Swedish, young warrior, rather than son, but that was a while back...

Edited by The Puzzler, 23 July 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[The Puzzler]

If I look to other words in similar vein we get Suebi, which may be a form of sve sound - like sve could become sue even, it could be that V is being used in a 'ue' situation and V is also being used for v - ue; svn = suen - ue could possibly go to u or o = son or sun from svn - if the v in that case s being used for a ve that equates to ue - that became o or u in it's word use.
It's possibly nothing but might help you find something else in it. Swain, which sounds somewhat like suen, came from sven.

[Van Gorp]

For whom it may be interesting (maybe Otharus, cuz I saw you have allready some more elaborate work posted on the word ‘Bal’ and derivatives in OLB and elsewhere (like Baltic))

Schrieckius (beginning 1600’s) declares latin Balticum bears the meaning of Bfaltyck (Valdijk).

Some may think, ridiculous etymology :-)

But after some reflection we can relate one and another (remember V-B interchange like in V(b)amos, V(b)alencia, …):

'Bal' as circumstanced as ‘not so good’ we have also ‘vaal’.  Vaal is Bfale -> pale.
Val like in Valley is also low (see to fall).

So all toghether connected with bad, low, platvloers, laag bij de grond, bleekskes, niet hoogstaand.

A ‘valdijk’ is a dike threathened to fall.
But besides the ‘valdijk’ we have also on several places the ‘koedijk’.
I don’t know if previously mentionned allready in connection, but could these two be connected etymologically?

Reasons of this possibility:

• Koe coming from Kwa(de), we say for a worn-off pants ‘min kooi broek’, ‘my bad pants’
  
• ‘Kwa’dijk as related to ‘Bal’dijk as related to ‘Val’dijk
  
  • See also familyname Kwadijk
    
  • Variantes de ce patronyme : KWADIIJK | KWADIJK | QUADIJK
• By the last one you can think of Cadik (Cadiz) where the Dike is broken
  
• Broken is ‘Kaduk’ -> Koedijk -> Valdijk -> Baldijk -> Baltic

Wiki says for Codanus Sinus: “The origin of the name is obscure.” As with many Latin names.

[Otharus]

Very interesting VG, it makes sense.

Val => Dutch verb "falen" (to fail) => German noun "fehler" (mistake)

North-Holland has two villages Kwadijk and Koedijk.
One would initially associate the latter with "koe" ="cow", but I agree it could come from KVA = KV =KU

[Otharus]

The Puzzler, on 23 July 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

1. Not unless the paper can be shown to be modern unquestionably imo.

If the paper would be more modern than from the 13th century, one could still wonder if someone copied it after Hidde, without adding a letter.

The current paper research group is only comparing with western 19th century techniques, because they have started from the assumption that OLB is a hoax (which is unforgivably stupid IMO). Yet we know that - for example in China - high quality paper was made, long before the 13th century.

[The Puzzler]

How does one suppose the teenage boy who was from the Mediterranean Sea area end up at Stonehenge c.1550BC?

More recently two major new theories have been proposed. Professor Geoffrey Wainwright OBE, FSA, president of the Society of Antiquaries of London, and Professor Timothy Darvill, OBE of Bournemouth University have suggested that Stonehenge was a place of healing – the primeval equivalent of Lourdes.^[18] They argue that this accounts for the high number of burials in the area and for the evidence of trauma deformity in some of the graves. However they do concede that the site was probably multifunctional and used for ancestor worship as well.^[19] Isotope analysis indicates that some of the buried individuals were from other regions. A teenage boy buried approximately 1550 BC was raised near the Mediterranean Sea; a metal worker from 2300 BC dubbed the "Amesbury Archer" grew up near the alpine foothills of Germany; and the "Boscombe Bowmen" probably arrived from Wales or Brittany, France
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Stonehenge

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 28 July 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

How does one suppose the teenage boy who was from the Mediterranean Sea area end up at Stonehenge c.1550BC?

More recently two major new theories have been proposed. Professor Geoffrey Wainwright OBE, FSA, president of the Society of Antiquaries of London, and Professor Timothy Darvill, OBE of Bournemouth University have suggested that Stonehenge was a place of healing – the primeval equivalent of Lourdes.^[18] They argue that this accounts for the high number of burials in the area and for the evidence of trauma deformity in some of the graves. However they do concede that the site was probably multifunctional and used for ancestor worship as well.^[19] Isotope analysis indicates that some of the buried individuals were from other regions. A teenage boy buried approximately 1550 BC was raised near the Mediterranean Sea; a metal worker from 2300 BC dubbed the "Amesbury Archer" grew up near the alpine foothills of Germany; and the "Boscombe Bowmen" probably arrived from Wales or Brittany, France
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Stonehenge

People came from all over Europe to visit Stonehenge:

The charcoal fragments also add haunting new evidence to the Stonehenge story. Darvill and Wainwright revealed yesterday, at the Society of Antiquaries in London, that the earliest has been dated to 7,000BC, and the most recent to medieval times, suggesting that the site was already important 4,000 years before the oldest stone circle, and continued to draw visitors for centuries after it was believed to have been abandoned.

http://www.unexplain...80#entry3332462

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 28 July 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

People came from all over Europe to visit Stonehenge:

The charcoal fragments also add haunting new evidence to the Stonehenge story. Darvill and Wainwright revealed yesterday, at the Society of Antiquaries in London, that the earliest has been dated to 7,000BC, and the most recent to medieval times, suggesting that the site was already important 4,000 years before the oldest stone circle, and continued to draw visitors for centuries after it was believed to have been abandoned.

http://www.unexplain...80#entry3332462

And that's my point. The mythology of Britain and Northern Europe could have easily embedded into Mediterranean Culture, even at 1550BC.

Wall remarks that "It is highly significant that no lunar calendar other than the Coligny system, anywhere in the world or at any time in history, began its months at the first quarter moon- except the one embodied in the stones and holes of Stonehenge" (32). In the first century B.C., the historian Diodorus Siculus remarked that in the regions beyond the lands of the Gauls, there lies an island where the moon god visits every nineteen years, "the period in which the return of the stars to the same place in the heavens is accomplished; and for this reason the nineteen year period is called by the Greeks 'the year of Meton.' " Here, states Siculus, is a "notable temple which is spherical in shape" (quoted in Wall 32).


http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/s/stonehenge_and_the_sequani_calendar.html

Edited by The Puzzler, 29 July 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Abramelin]

I remembered "The Archer" whose skeleton and burial gifts proved that there was even contact between Europe and Britain at an earlier time:


The Amesbury Archer is an early Bronze Age man whose grave was discovered during excavations at the site of a new housing development in Amesbury near Stonehenge. The grave was uncovered in May 2002, and the man is believed to date from about 2300 BC. He is nicknamed the "archer" because of the many arrowheads that were among the artefacts buried with him.

(...)

However his grave is of particular importance because of its connections with Continental Europe and early copper smelting technology. He is believed to have been one of the earliest metalworkers in Britain and his discovery supports interpreters who claim that the diffusion of Beaker Culture pottery was the result of population movement, rather than just the widespread adoption of an artefact 'package'.

http://en.wikipedia....Amesbury_Archer


A man dubbed the "King of Stonehenge" had probably travelled from the Alps to settle in Britain more than four millennia ago, revealing that an extensive European trade network existed in the Early Bronze Age, archaeologists said yesterday.

Tests on the teeth of the man, whose rich grave near Stonehenge amazed archaeologists last year, show he was originally from an Alpine region, probably Switzerland.

The media dubbed him "The King of Stonehenge", however, the presence of 16 flint arrowheads and two sandstone wristguards led archaeologists to call him "The Amesbury Archer".

(...)

The knives came from Spain and France. However, a study of oxygen isotopes in his teeth suggests that he came from a colder Alpine region.

The archer was an example of the spread of the Beaker culture from the continent, marked by a new style of pottery, the use of barbed flat arrow heads, copper knives and small gold ornaments.
(...)

Also found at the site was a second skeleton of a younger man, aged 20 to 25. Bone analysis showed he and the archer were related and it is likely that they were father and son.

http://www.telegraph...-from-Alps.html


Dr Andrew Fitzpatrick, of Wessex Archaeology, said: “This was a time of great change in Britain – the first metals were being brought here from abroad and great monuments such as Stonehenge were being built.

“We have long suspected that it was people from the continent of Europe who initiated the trade that first brought copper and gold to Britain, and the Archer is the first discovery to confirm this.

http://www.wessexarc...cher_finds.html

[Abramelin]

But now Imagine that for instance an "Ötzi the Iceman" came from Britain...

As far as I know, no skeletal remains from Europe ever showed people from ancient Britain ended up in Greece.

The only thing the remains of 'the Archer' tell us is that this man was born and spent his childhood near the Alps, but grew up in Britain.

[The Puzzler]

Just an offnote, I recall Otharus wondering about nocht - being night and nuts and couldn't help but think of it when I saw Nut, as night...


http://en.wikipedia....ki/Nut_(goddess)

Edited by The Puzzler, 29 July 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Knul]

Otharus, ik heb contact gehad met Vincent van den Bossche. Hij is inderdaad de auteur. Zijn thesis is beschikbaar bij de K.U. Leuven, Centrale Bibliotheek. Promotor is Prof. Joop van den Bosch.

[Otharus]

Knul, on 07 August 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Otharus, ik heb contact gehad met Vincent van den Bossche. [...] Zijn thesis is beschikbaar bij de K.U. Leuven, Centrale Bibliotheek. [...]

Thank you, Menno.
Yes, I saw it and copied fragments there.
He posted on the other forum.

[Abramelin]

The Finda, a  Mongolian people according to the OLB, orginated near the Himalayas (by their own words what the OLB tells us about them; the Ald Land, the Old Land).


The Exterminated & Subjugated Races : Blacks (`Dasyus' &
`Sudras'), Semites (`Panis') and Mongoloids (`Nagas')

(...)


The Mongoloids are also mentioned by the Sanskrit poets. In Sanskrit they are
referred to as Yakshas, in Pali as Yakkos & in Chinese as Yueh-Chih [ 1800,p.45
]. These yellow races descended from the Himalayas and occupied much of the
Ganges valley. Being natives of higher regions they considerd themselves to be
superior to the inhabitants of the plains, and assumed the name of daivaputra of
the sons of gods' [ 1800,p.45 ]. They spread over the whole of Bengal, and
emigrated thence by sea to southern Indian and Ceylon.

http://xa.yimg.com/k...an Invasion.pdf