Clairvoyance

[tay123]

Hi everyone! I am participating in a philosophy project and I would like to get some of your opinions on the topic of clairvoyance. Clairvoyance, by

definition is, "the supposed faculty of perceiving things or events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact". Through my research I have found that many people do not believe in this phenomena because it has not been proven by science. My hypothesis is that clairvoyance is real and the fact that scientists cannot prove it exists, is an epistemological question in itself. The fact that stories exist of various people who have experienced the sixth-sense poses an epistemological question and takes away from the credibility of scientific research and claims. Clairvoyance is outside of the realm of the scientific method, which causes scientists and others to doubt the validity of clairvoyance. Many scientists have tried to find ways to test clairvoyance but there have been many flaws in the procedures and conclusions. I have read some personal accounts of clairvoyants who have actually been able to control their clairvoyant dreams and abilities. There are actually many claims that clairvoyance can be taught or learned. Due to the fact that science has not been able to prove that this psychic ability is legitimate leads to many epistemological questions. There are tons of articles, movies, books etc. claiming multiple ideas and beliefs about this anomaly. Here is a website that anyone can go to see a few stories of clairvoyant experiences: http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=7073 Also, below is the link to a video of an expert on clairvoyance talking about her work. Please comment and give me your thoughts and discussions on this subject.

work:

[_Only]

All I know is that one time I had a completely clairvoyant dream of me visiting a house and taking a tour with the owner, which happened later in my life, a couple states over. I don't know what to make of it. But, nevertheless, there it was. Has only happened to me once in my life.

[spud the mackem]

Clair Voyance works in the Fish Shop in Bristol...

[danydandan]

Hi everyone! I am participating in a philosophy project and I would like to get some of your opinions on the topic of clairvoyance. Clairvoyance, by

definition is, "the supposed faculty of perceiving things or events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact". Through my research I have found that many people do not believe in this phenomena because it has not been proven by science. My hypothesis is that clairvoyance is real and the fact that scientists cannot prove it exists, is an epistemological question in itself. The fact that stories exist of various people who have experienced the sixth-sense poses an epistemological question and takes away from the credibility of scientific research and claims. Clairvoyance is outside of the realm of the scientific method, which causes scientists and others to doubt the validity of clairvoyance. Many scientists have tried to find ways to test clairvoyance but there have been many flaws in the procedures and conclusions. I have read some personal accounts of clairvoyants who have actually been able to control their clairvoyant dreams and abilities. There are actually many claims that clairvoyance can be taught or learned. Due to the fact that science has not been able to prove that this psychic ability is legitimate leads to many epistemological questions. There are tons of articles, movies, books etc. claiming multiple ideas and beliefs about this anomaly. Here is a website that anyone can go to see a few stories of clairvoyant experiences: http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=7073 Also, below is the link to a video of an expert on clairvoyance talking about her work. Please comment and give me your thoughts and discussions on this subject.

work:

Why do you keep saying "science cant prove this or science doesnt understand that" . Its people, a vast majority of whom, believe that extrasensory perception is a load of bull.

You claim that the experiments are not credible , well prove that to me . Flaws in the procedure and conclusions ???

Its up to the people who believe that they have extrasensory perception to prove , not anyone else . All scientists have to do is validate them objectivly.

Edited April 22, 2012 by danydandan

[Ashotep]

I have had experiences like that many times through out my life, even saved my life once. I'm always awake when this happens. Sometimes I can pick up on what people are thinking too. I know this happens and I don't feel the need to prove it to anyone.

[tay123]

Why do you keep saying "science cant prove this or science doesnt understand that" . Its people, a vast majority of whom, believe that extrasensory perception is a load of bull.

You claim that the experiments are not credible , well prove that to me . Flaws in the procedure and conclusions ???

Its up to the people who believe that they have extrasensory perception to prove , not anyone else . All scientists have to do is validate them objectivly.

Many people have had these experiences so of course they would believe it. The people who have not had the experiences could have a different take on their views. Science has not been able to prove anything about clairvoyance or other ESP forms. It depends on the person and if they choose to believe or not. And yes, scientists have tried many times to test and prove clairvoyance and other ESP forms but their procedures have been flawed. Therefore, their results have not been correct. I also said that I believe in ESP although I have never experienced it, because I believe that people would not have so many amazing stories of their experiences if it was not real. How do you want me to prove to you that the experiments have been flawed? Its as simple as reading the internet. I came across a couple of articles that said that scientists have tried several times to test ESP and their procedures have been flawed. There is currently no way that has been found to properly test ESP.

[tay123]

I have had experiences like that many times through out my life, even saved my life once. I'm always awake when this happens. Sometimes I can pick up on what people are thinking too. I know this happens and I don't feel the need to prove it to anyone.

I definitely believe in all types of ESP, especially clairvoyance. So many people can account for experiences like yours and that is proof enough for me, even though I have never personally experienced any form of ESP.

[tay123]

All I know is that one time I had a completely clairvoyant dream of me visiting a house and taking a tour with the owner, which happened later in my life, a couple states over. I don't know what to make of it. But, nevertheless, there it was. Has only happened to me once in my life.

Yeah, it has never happened to me before, but it is fascinating to hear everyone's stories.

[_Only]

Yeah, it has never happened to me before, but it is fascinating to hear everyone's stories.

Here's a little account of my pre-cognitive dream. One of those things you just forget the details of after awhile. I'm glad I wrote it down on here: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=165518&st=0&p=3111941&fromsearch=1entry3111941

[coldethyl]

I do not believe in mediums and psychics.

I do believe in intuition and picking up on what people say and their body language.

I do believe however, that since a mother and child are physically connected by an umbilical chord that is it not unreasonable to believe that some sort of bond that could be termed 'psychic' could be formed there.

I also believe that twins who share the same DNA feel they have a bond because they share DNA and also possibly because they shared the womb.

I know it sounds kind of feminist but I don't mean it to. To me it's just a logic thing.

[alex1990]

well ive had dreams and visions, and sometimes i can just say things with out knowing it will come true. I would love for people to research the matter ,theres so many questions i have but when the time is ready they will find nessary proof if they havent already and just havent released it.Either way I just want answers or to meet someone like me . Ive tried looking into indigo and although i fall into the category i dunno. Im still alil different that what they are.

but if you want some more experinces look up indigos there's a bunch of info on them.

[spud the mackem]

I get this E.S.P. all the time,its a kind of warning,like telling you to do/not do something and has saved me from harm on numerous occasions.Maybe its my "guardian angel" if you believe in that sort of thing,which I'm sceptical about.But I dont know a lot about Clairvoyance as I dont believe that anyone can forecast the future....Does anyone have the same E.S.P intuition ?.My Mom used to have the same senses,she was a twin and could tell if her sister was in trouble or not feeling well,although they were miles apart.My son has the same senses but a lot stronger than mine.I'm open to debate on this if anyone has the same sort of feelings..cheers.....

[tay123]

I do not believe in mediums and psychics.

I do believe in intuition and picking up on what people say and their body language.

I do believe however, that since a mother and child are physically connected by an umbilical chord that is it not unreasonable to believe that some sort of bond that could be termed 'psychic' could be formed there.

I also believe that twins who share the same DNA feel they have a bond because they share DNA and also possibly because they shared the womb.

I know it sounds kind of feminist but I don't mean it to. To me it's just a logic thing.

I completely agree. How is it that twins especially can feel each others thoughts and emotions? I don't know how people can deny clairvoyance or psychics. SO many people have claimed to have these experiences and the fact that a person can make an account of a story in detail before the event happens is proof enough for me that all types of ESP are real.

[tay123]

well ive had dreams and visions, and sometimes i can just say things with out knowing it will come true. I would love for people to research the matter ,theres so many questions i have but when the time is ready they will find nessary proof if they havent already and just havent released it.Either way I just want answers or to meet someone like me . Ive tried looking into indigo and although i fall into the category i dunno. Im still alil different that what they are.

but if you want some more experinces look up indigos there's a bunch of info on them.

Thank you for that suggestion. I am researching it right now for a philosophy project and I can't seem to find actual proof of clairvoyance/ESP except through experiences. I don't think that ESP was meant for the human mind to understand for some reason. I think and have found that a lot of people doubt clairvoyance and other ESP because they do not understand why it cannot be tested. I guess they figure that ESP can be detected through brain waves and such. I personally believe these claims. I have never had an experience with ESP but I know someone personally who had an interesting experience when they were young. This person actually had a dream that his grandmother died when he was 6. He woke up that morning and told his parents what he dreamed about and a couple hours later they got a call saying that the grandmother had passed. How could anyone doubt ESP when there are stories like that? That is no coincidence.

[_Only]

How could anyone doubt ESP when there are stories like that? That is no coincidence.

People rarely believe any stories from others anymore. Blame the world of liars. You and me, too. We all lie.

The only answer for many to that is to find proof of everything. Which isn't easy. To understand a possible aspect of the brain, you would first have to understand the brain. A work in progress. So for many, it is the safe way to just deny any claims if they haven't experienced it themselves, and there is no outside proof.

Edited April 23, 2012 by _Only

[danydandan]

Many people have had these experiences so of course they would believe it. The people who have not had the experiences could have a different take on their views. Science has not been able to prove anything about clairvoyance or other ESP forms. It depends on the person and if they choose to believe or not. And yes, scientists have tried many times to test and prove clairvoyance and other ESP forms but their procedures have been flawed. Therefore, their results have not been correct. I also said that I believe in ESP although I have never experienced it, because I believe that people would not have so many amazing stories of their experiences if it was not real. How do you want me to prove to you that the experiments have been flawed? Its as simple as reading the internet. I came across a couple of articles that said that scientists have tried several times to test ESP and their procedures have been flawed. There is currently no way that has been found to properly test ESP.

science is about data , not what one believes.

yes it would be as simple as reading their data , and lab procedure to see if its flawed

How would you test for esp ?

Well its simple Use Sener card , put them in a envolpe and see if the person can tell me which card is in the envolpe . and for this to be a correct test 10 cards should be used

100 tests should be carried out

. If it hits like a 95 to a hundred percent hit rate then id believe it . any thing lower than would suggest guess work

[the_twilightzone]

I think it's probably coincidence, but I've dreamt of things (usually bad things) before they've happened often enough that my friends and family members will take extra precautions to avoid the dream scenarios.

[_Only]

science is about data , not what one believes.

yes it would be as simple as reading their data , and lab procedure to see if its flawed

How would you test for esp ?

Well its simple Use Sener card , put them in a envolpe and see if the person can tell me which card is in the envolpe . and for this to be a correct test 10 cards should be used

100 tests should be carried out

. If it hits like a 95 to a hundred percent hit rate then id believe it . any thing lower than would suggest guess work

The problem with that test is that many of the more normal, common events of people having some sort of a clairvoyant dream or thought, came unknowingly to the "viewer". They don't seem to be able to control it, or even know the how and why of it. Far from something that is done at will; an often rare, or at least sporadic experience. They just know that at one time they thought of seeing something happening, and later it occurred. Silly tests like the one you mentioned ignore this aspect, and cater only to those who claim they have some sort of controlled, supernatural power that they can use at will. Which is much harder to swallow.

The simple answer is often not the best. My money would still be on completely figuring out the hows and whys of the brain, which couldn't be farther from simplicity.

Edited April 23, 2012 by _Only

[Simbi Laveau]

And science has been proven wrong,repeatedly.

What's true this year,is obsolete next year,and there's a new study to prove the old study,was wrong.

*rolls eyes*

I am clairvoyant.Its not something I can control .

I know there are people who have control of it.I envy them.They say not to envy them.

We are all born with a connection to the other side.

The other side is whatever you want to call it.Infinity,the astral plane,heaven .

Children are more closely connected,and as we age,the portal that connects us,closes.

I believe some people are born with it closed.Its why they never experience anything.

Some people have the portal ,wide open,all the time,some,half open.So we get glimpses,intuitions.

I do have prophetic dreams frequently .Sometimes I just know things I shouldn't know.Infuriates friends and boyfriends.You cannot lie me.It will bite you on the butt.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[ColoradoParanormal]

Hi everyone! I am participating in a philosophy project and I would like to get some of your opinions on the topic of clairvoyance. Clairvoyance, by

definition is, "the supposed faculty of perceiving things or events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact". Through my research I have found that many people do not believe in this phenomena because it has not been proven by science. My hypothesis is that clairvoyance is real and the fact that scientists cannot prove it exists, is an epistemological question in itself. The fact that stories exist of various people who have experienced the sixth-sense poses an epistemological question and takes away from the credibility of scientific research and claims.

Clairvoyance is outside of the realm of the scientific method, which causes scientists and others to doubt the validity of clairvoyance. Many scientists have tried to find ways to test clairvoyance but there have been many flaws in the procedures and conclusions. I have read some personal accounts of clairvoyants who have actually been able to control their clairvoyant dreams and abilities. There are actually many claims that clairvoyance can be taught or learned.

Due to the fact that science has not been able to prove that this psychic ability is legitimate leads to many epistemological questions. There are tons of articles, movies, books etc. claiming multiple ideas and beliefs about this anomaly. Here is a website that anyone can go to see a few stories of clairvoyant experiences: http://www.psychic-e....php?story=7073 Also, below is the link to a video of an expert on clairvoyance talking about her work. Please comment and give me your thoughts and discussions on this subject.

work:

Welcome to UM. I wanted to ask, are you taught in college proper grammar and punctuation? I've taken the liberty of adding paragraphs thus making it easier for your audience (us) to be able to comprehend your post.

Now, on to your question/theory. You say that because science cannot validate psychic abilities due to it being outside the realm of scientific method lends credibility to clairvoyance? This is doesn't make rational sense. You state that you've read personal accounts and statements leading to your conclusion that clairvoyance is a real phenomenon yet you wont accept actual hard science? This takes away from your credibility my friend.

Personal experience and statements are just that. Non-verifiable, open for interpretation, events that may or may not have occurred. Unless it can be scientifically verified it isn't "evidence" nor summarily scientifically viable. I'm actually rather surprised that a person of higher education would make the statements you've noted.

And, in fact, when I was in school receiving my Bachtoral in Psychology, I did research in to psychic phenomenon (for my own knowledge as I was gaining an understanding of the world of Psychology as well as my major in applied sciences gave me an understanding in Scientific method) and the steps science has taken to research it. The Scientific methods revealed, to me and a matter of fact, noted scientists were very in-depth and credible. The fact that psychic abilities has not been proven doesn't reveal a fault with science but rather in psychic abilities itself my friend...

[spud the mackem]

And science has been proven wrong,repeatedly.

What's true this year,is obsolete next year,and there's a new study to prove the old study,was wrong.

*rolls eyes*

I am clairvoyant.Its not something I can control .

I know there are people who have control of it.I envy them.They say not to envy them.

We are all born with a connection to the other side.

The other side is whatever you want to call it.Infinity,the astral plane,heaven .

Children are more closely connected,and as we age,the portal that connects us,closes.

I believe some people are born with it closed.Its why they never experience anything.

Some people have the portal ,wide open,all the time,some,half open.So we get glimpses,intuitions.

I do have prophetic dreams frequently .Sometimes I just know things I shouldn't know.Infuriates friends and boyfriends.You cannot lie me.It will bite you on the butt.

Ok,understood,I get these "warnings" live and its creepy sometimes,like if I am driving a thought will come such as "slow down car wreck ahead",and there it is a few miles ahead.Or dont go down that street tonight,muggers about..and I can "feel it",if someone is staring at me..Its quite out of the ordinary but I never ignore these mind flashes..but I dont think thats Clairvoyance as I dont know whats going to happen tomorrow,next week etc.

[Emma_Acid]

My hypothesis is that clairvoyance is real and the fact that scientists cannot prove it exists, is an epistemological question in itself.

If something exists, science can measure it. What you're doing is known as 'special pleading' and logically invalidates your argument.

They don't seem to be able to control it, or even know the how and why of it.

So it can't be tested properly. How convenient.

And science has been proven wrong,repeatedly.

What's true this year,is obsolete next year,and there's a new study to prove the old study,was wrong.

*rolls eyes*

A long way of saying "I don't understand science". Science is about being proven wrong. You test something, build evidence and make predictions. Nothing is ever proven right in science - it is merely not proven wrong. There is no evidence for ESP, psi, clairvoyance etc etc. There simply isn't.

[Beany]

Have you seen the movie I Am by Tom Shadyac? He participates in an experiment that seems to validate clairvoyance, where a picture, chosen at random, appears on screen and his body physically reacts approximately 3 seconds before the picture actually appears. Apparently these results are consistent.

[_Only]

So it can't be tested properly. How convenient.

I see where you're coming from, but to someone who this has really happened to in a vivid way (which was me once, making me take what you said to heart), it stings a bit to assume that everyone who experiences something like this is trying to conveniently sneak their B.S. by science. Pretend that some people are being truthful in what they saw (to be fair), and read what I said again. What would be a fitting test, with that in mind (no control over "seeing" things)? That is the problem, which is far from convenient to either side. It is equally aggravating.

Edited April 24, 2012 by _Only

[Emma_Acid]

I see where you're coming from, but to someone who this has really happened to in a vivid way (which was me once, making me take what you said to heart), it stings a bit to assume that everyone who experiences something like this is trying to conveniently sneak their B.S. by science.

Scientifically, personal experience counts for nothing. This isn't me being harsh. This is a fact. Science is about evidence, predictions, falsifiable theory and repeatability.

Someone simply saying they have clairvoyant experiences is no more empirically valid than the old guy who sits at the bus stop claiming to be Napoleon.

Again, this isn't my opinion. I'm talking about what is accepted as science and what isn't.

Pretend that some people are being truthful in what they saw (to be fair), and read what I said again. What would be a fitting test, with that in mind (no control over "seeing" things)? That is the problem, which is far from convenient to either side. It is equally aggravating.

If something exists, we can test for it. It is as simple as that. Quantum physics has become one of the most accurately predicted and tested areas of any science, and yet follows rules so baffling that some people think we may never truly understand them.

Simply saying "science can't test for this", is moving the goal posts. There is nothing in nature, by definition, that is un-examinable by science at some level. And if science truly can't test for it - if it is that subconscious, unknown and random, then there is no point in even talking about it, and it will be by definition inherently impossible for us to objectively use.