47 replies to this topic

[Shabd Mystic]

http://alumni.stanfo...rticle_id=54818

[Leave Britney alone!]

Thank you for posting, this was an awesome article. I especially enjoyed the sections comparing how magic and Christianity can have much in common once the politics and constructed polarities are discarded, and when the article mentioned that creating an inner-dialogue made her see a vision of druids outside her home, in the same manner those who do so with God might get messages back in some form, and how given the same techniques to Stanford students caused a few experiences where Leland Stanford Jr. appeared or spoke back.

Quote

Some call this movement the country's fourth Great Awakening—a reference to other eras in American history in which religious fervor shaped the national agenda.

http://alumni.stanfo...rticle_id=54818

I must agree that something is changing in America and it is simply moving away from dualism, that everything must be either right or wrong, to more integrative approaches that realize we have more in common and work better cooperating than competing.

You might be interested in the recent thread I posted, The Atheist at the Breakfast Table, containing a link the article of the same name written by Bruce Gierson. In it reveals why top ranked research scientiest who are also atheist attend church now. The intersection of science, academia, and spirituality is becoming more a place of understanding.

Edited by Lookitisoneofthosepeople, 08 July 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[Mr Walker]

Interesting article and it may well hold true for many people.

However it does not explain the god form which talks to people AND interacts physically with them, nor the god form which converses with people AND provides information in various forms which could not come from within their mind. This is the  second single clearest evidence that a god form exists outside a persons mind ie when it educates instructs warns or other wise engages with your mind as an outside source of knowledge. The primary clearest evidence for the external existence of god is when the voice of god combines with the power of god to ACT physically in the physical world  As far as I know apart from possible paranormal abilities A human mid simly cannot know the things god knows nor can it perfrm the miracles of physical transformation and manipulation which god performs.

I was first  reluctantly convinced of the physical independent reality of god by a combination of the power of gods voice and the physical miracle he  performed for me after telling me precisely what he was about to do. Since then god has continuously interacted with me in a verbal/ visual /physicall way, that my mind is simply not capable of imitating or reproducing.

For example my mind cannot produce a ten thousand watt  being of light, visible to other people.   My mind cannot know things from around the world inside other people's minds or across the solar system/universe. It cannot accurately see the potential future in dvd quality format. But god can, and he can pass that information on in a variety of forms.
It almost sounded as if the author was trying to find and explain a logical rationale for the way people construct belief in god and how a relationship with god can be created.

No harm in that either, as long as it does not deny the existence of a god outside and beyond such a construction. A real indpendent and powerful entity who  also can sit down and have a cup of coffee and a discussion with you. Mind you, god only drinks decaf.   and even then, only in the spiritual sense.

Edited by Mr Walker, 08 July 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[solaries]

Mr Walker, on 08 July 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Interesting article and it may well hold true for many people.

However it does not explain the god form which talks to people AND interacts physically with them, nor the god form which converses with people AND provides information in various forms which could not come from within their mind. This is the  second single clearest evidence that a god form exists outside a persons mind ie when it educates instructs warns or other wise engages with your mind as an outside source of knowledge. The primary clearest evidence for the external existence of god is when the voice of god combines with the power of god to ACT physically in the physical world  As far as I know apart from possible paranormal abilities A human mid simly cannot know the things god knows nor can it perfrm the miracles of physical transformation and manipulation which god performs.

I was first  reluctantly convinced of the physical independent reality of god by a combination of the power of gods voice and the physical miracle he  performed for me after telling me precisely what he was about to do. Since then god has continuously interacted with me in a verbal/ visual /physicall way, that my mind is simply not capable of imitating or reproducing.

For example my mind cannot produce a ten thousand watt  being of light, visible to other people.   My mind cannot know things from around the world inside other people's minds or across the solar system/universe. It cannot accurately see the potential future in dvd quality format. But god can, and he can pass that information on in a variety of forms.
It almost sounded as if the author was trying to find and explain a logical rationale for the way people construct belief in god and how a relationship with god can be created.

No harm in that either, as long as it does not deny the existence of a god outside and beyond such a construction. A real indpendent and powerful entity who  also can sit down and have a cup of coffee and a discussion with you. Mind you, god only drinks decaf.   and even then, only in the spiritual sense.

Did you ever hear the voice of God as a human voice, or is it usually indirect?

[ZaraKitty]

I don't hear anything.

[Arbenol68]

If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

[solaries]

Arbenol68, on 09 July 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

lol...though, that statement takes for granted that your belief, or lack thereof, is correct.  Conversely, that other beliefs are not only wrong, but crazy as well.  Attacking the believer is not nice   Yes, if you hear an unexplained voice, it can be a mental disease or a prank/being fooled.  The possibility to a believer that that voice could be a spirit/God is also there.  Discounting it would be discounting his/her faith.

[Arbenol68]

solaries, on 09 July 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

lol...though, that statement takes for granted that your belief, or lack thereof, is correct.  Conversely, that other beliefs are not only wrong, but crazy as well.  Attacking the believer is not nice   Yes, if you hear an unexplained voice, it can be a mental disease or a prank/being fooled.  The possibility to a believer that that voice could be a spirit/God is also there.  Discounting it would be discounting his/her faith.

My comment was a little mischievous but still mostly accurate.

I would say though that not everybody who hears voices has schizophrenia. But I've yet to meet anyone who hears a genuine, not internally generated, disembodied voice.

[solaries]

Arbenol68, on 09 July 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

My comment was a little mischievous but still mostly accurate.

I would say though that not everybody who hears voices has schizophrenia. But I've yet to meet anyone who hears a genuine, not internally generated, disembodied voice.

How would you know if it were genuine?  It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

[eight bits]

Quote

  It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

Not by people who know what they're talking about. Abusers who exploit the mentally ill for fun and to demean healthy people who disagree with them very likely don't fit into that category.

[Arbenol68]

solaries, on 09 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

How would you know if it were genuine?  It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

I would never claim to know anything with certainty but it is the most parsimonious explanation.

We know for a fact that auditory hallucinations have a pathological explanation, but no such certainty that their origin is supernatural. In fact I would go as far to say that there is no good evidence at all for it.

[eight bits]

Quote

We know for a fact that auditory hallucinations have a pathological explanation

No, what we actually know for a fact is that auditory hallucinations are inevitable in any physical system capable of hearing. That principle, usually called receiver operating characteristic, searchable, applies also to any classification of acoustical phenomena by physical means. So, if a person can hear and understand speech normally, then they will sometimes hear speech when there is no speaker.

In a mentally healthy person, how these events are interpreted when they occur, as they must sometimes occur in physical processing of speech, will reflect their beliefs about possible sources of speech.

A rational person whose belief in God stands at the level of Levi's "serious possibility," if they live long enough, will hear what they consider to be God possibly speaking to them. That's each and every speech-hearing person who does not rule out the existence of God.

The only persons who won't interpret some acoustical perception-event as the serious possibility that God spoke to them are those who die (or lose their hearing, etc.) too soon, and those who couldn't hear God speaking to them if he did speak to them. Everyone else, literally everyione else, will have the experience.

Edited by eight bits, 09 July 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Timonthy]

Arbenol68, on 09 July 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

I would say both are questionable...

[Mr Walker]

solaries, on 09 July 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Did you ever hear the voice of God as a human voice, or is it usually indirect?

God communicates in many forms. Those include a particular inner voice (which is different to the many other inner voices which express themselvs to me as part of my multiple intelligences; eg the voice of logic/ reason, the voice of emotion, the voice of intuition,  the voices of philosophy ethics moralities etc.) I jave learned through long learned expereince ot both recognise and obey this voice instantly. That instant obedience has saved my life on many occasions and that of my wife on a number, also.
Second, god can and does speak out loud  using created sound waves so that i and others can hear him. This may emanate from an avatar of god like a being of light or a  an angel appearing as a human being.
Or the external and physical voice may simply come out of thin air.  (as can physical manifestations of god, appearing like a hologram or a transmat   arrival)

I know the voice of god because it provides specific warnings information, lessons, and instructions or predictions, which could not come from my own individual consciousness or any of my inner voices. For example a voice speaks to me and says, "stop now, because in 15 seconds a red truck is going to run the red light at the next intersection, and if you are entering it you will be killed"

So i pull up on the green light and sure enough a red truck  cuts across the intersection where i would have been. That sort of thing happens regularly,  and much more on a minor scale.
God can and does speak to me through other humans. I have had a number walk up to me and say "god told me to tell you this " God also communicates in visions dreams etc. Again the nature of these dreams is made evident by their accuracy and clarity of prediction Finally, god can communicate using natural things like a radio or television, especially where there is a need to convince a number of people who might not believe my inner voice of god, but can't deny the  reality of  the voice of a radio or tv announcer

Oh, but the most common form of communication is a sort of "vulcan mind meld", by which god simply implants knowledge, power, strength, courage, calmness, etc., into my mind. No words or even visual imagery is required. It is as if i now have knowledge which i learned, but it has been placed directly into my mind. It is this form of knowledge which allows me simply to know where lost or stolen objects are  and to know what is in the minds of others, on occasions.
Ps the voice of god in trees and naturee is another form  of the voice of god but i do not use that much. It is verifiable by listening to the voice of trees and then geting other peole to listen to the Each tree tells different people/listeners the same story and uses a similar voice for each listener I once had a tree tell me the winner of that years melbourne cup and made a few dollars on it. Another one told me the winner of that years brownlow medal (australias main football medal. And i dont even follow the football) Those too  IMO are voices of the universal god or the cosmic consciousness.

PS unlike most i have a certifiable and complete bill of health both psychologically and neurologically. There is nothing crazy about talking to or listening to a being who gives great power and gifts.

Edited by Mr Walker, 09 July 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[solaries]

Mr Walker, on 09 July 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

I know the voice of god because it provides specific warnings information, lessons, and instructions or predictions, which could not come from my own individual consciousness or any of my inner voices. For example a voice speaks to me and says, "stop now, because in 15 seconds a red truck is going to run the red light at the next intersection, and if you are entering it you will be killed"

So i pull up on the green light and sure enough a red truck  cuts across the intersection where i would have been. That sort of thing happens regularly,  and much more on a minor scale.
God can and does speak to me through other humans. I have had a number walk up to me and say "god told me to tell you this " God also communicates in visions dreams etc.
Oh, but the most common form of communication is a sort of "vulcan mind meld", by which god simply implants knowledge, power, strength, courage, calmness, etc., into my mind.

I've had some of these experiences as well.  I didn't associate it with God per-se, but didn't know what to make of them either.  One is very similar to yours.  I was driving 4 friends to their homes in the early morning.  They were all fast asleep.  At a solid green light (had been for a while) I got this sudden compulsion to stop for no reason.  There was no one visible on the road (early morning) and no reason to do it, but I did it anyway.  When I hit the brakes, a motorcycle running a red light passed at very high speeds right through the intersection.  That cyclist would have certainly died if I didn't hit the breaks, and maybe someone in my car seriously injured or killed.

About people giving you messages.  I've had strangers turn to me and spontaneously told me things that were very relevant to my life at the moment on several occasions.  I talked about one in my thread on this section of the forum.

About the vulcan mind meld.  One time I was out with my cousin when we found out there was a family emergency.  We ran to my cousin's mom's car to go to it.  To our suprise his mother had bought one of those clubs you put on the steering wheel to protect them from theft.  It was a combination lock with 12 pegs that could be up or down.  Any number of them could be up or down according to the person who bought it.  The mathematical amount of possible combinations is in the millions.  Somehow I instantly knew the combination which involved 5 pegs down and 7 up in a non-obvious order. Dialed it in as if I had done it dozens of times before, removed the club and we were on our way.  My cousin absolutely astonished and saying "how is that possible?" the whole way.

Edited by solaries, 09 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.