33 replies to this topic

[itsnotoutthere]

questionmark, on 18 June 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Excuses excuses excuses. Fact of the matter is that this is exactly what you call socialism: Somebody is creating jobs with somebody else's money. Strangely not socialism, but creating jobs, when the Tories do it but super socialism when Labor does it.

The bottom line: All the same clientelism to get reelected. No matter if in Greece or in Britain.

Think you belong to this group as you're obviously in denial  :- "If only public sector workers faced the fact that their jobs wouldn't exist without the private sector there to fund them"

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 18 June 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[smurf0852]

itsnotoutthere, on 18 June 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Now i know you're burying your head in the sand. It's got everything to do with socialist government. It's exactly what the new French president was advocating to get elected. It's exactly the course of action our last socialist government undertook until it became unsustainable, remember the little note the last finance minister left new the new incumbent "Sorry there's no money left" it's what all socialist government do best i.e. spend barrow & spend again until it's all gone.

our last goverment was not in any way shape or form socialist it was a light blue tory goverment.
what i would like to know is when did a socialist goverment come to mean  wishy washy tree hugging sandle wearing idiots.
a real socialist goverment would encourage hard work and productivity along with a living wage and harsh punishment for anyone who damaged there society.
the only real difference between capitalisim and socialism should be under socialisim the rich arnt quite as rich and the poor arnt quite as poor a socialist state (a real one )should be the most productive place in the world but it seems to have be hijacked by
people who want to take the piss.

[itsnotoutthere]

smurf0852, on 23 June 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

our last goverment was not in any way shape or form socialist it was a light blue tory goverment.
what i would like to know is when did a socialist goverment come to mean  wishy washy tree hugging sandle wearing idiots.
a real socialist goverment would encourage hard work and productivity along with a living wage and harsh punishment for anyone who damaged there society.
the only real difference between capitalisim and socialism should be under socialisim the rich arnt quite as rich and the poor arnt quite as poor a socialist state (a real one )should be the most productive place in the world but it seems to have be hijacked by
people who want to take the piss.

And it's something that has never been successfully achieved.

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 24 June 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[CuriousGreek]

Raptor Witness, on 15 June 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

I hope the people of Greece have the fortitude to resist the austerity measures that Germany is demanding of them. After all, when the European Union was proposed, it was understood that some states were more productive. It seems unfair to expect the Greeks to change their cultural differences and adopt a German model simply because the bankers have almost single handedly wrecked the prosperity engine.

Like the Arab spring, the people's hatred of the status quo will soon boil over into a fierce battle for a new government. The sooner Greece is removed from the EU, the sooner she can compete and regain her freedom.

As it stands now, she is held hostage by German bankers. If they choose to pay the ransom, they get what they deserve.

Many of the Greek people, my friend, are enraged not only because of Germany, but also by the treacherous governments of the past and present, but i really don't know whether a massive revolution will take place soon. People are exhausted by all those measures and we sure want to get out of this freaky situation, but i really don't know when we're gonna take action....but remember my words; someday we will rise up and it's gonna be really big.

[CuriousGreek]

Bavarian Raven, on 16 June 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Its not so much cultural differences as they want to live the lazy life and have europe (germany) bale them out and pay for their lazy lifestyle.

Do you have any evidence on what you're stating? We are working more than any other nation in Europe (yeah more than Germans too). We sure are not lazy. Please, get your facts straight, before you start talking. No offence

[CuriousGreek]

Render, on 16 June 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

A big part of the crisis in Greece is because of the sudden booming of tourism, which started about 20 years ago.
Greece was still more or less primitive before that.
The booming in tourism brought along a lot of corruption, in politics but also among the people.

Europe is also to blame for letting Greece be a part of Europe in times that they weren't ready for it. The administration was not in order.
It's been only a couple of years that taxes are checked/controled for example.
Suddenly Greece was getting all this money in subsidies and all these paycuts on goods from other European countries and nobody checked up on how they were spent. There was no control.
So politicians and civilians just put it all in their pockets.

It's like giving a teenager 500 000 dollars, a car, and no rules. Just the slight promise that you'll get things in order sooner or later.


Anyway,
Leaving the EU is no solution for Greece at the time. It would be pretty much disastrous if they went back to the drachme. Inflation would go through the roof. It would be practically impossible to buy anything from foreign countries.
This includes things as computers for example. They will get in complete isolation the next couple of generations.
At this moment in time it's cheaper for them to buy tomatoes for example from a foreign country instead of buying the ones produces in Crete (almost 1 euro cheaper when it comes from another EU country).
Ppl their money ( the drachme) wouldn't be worth anything.
Controlposts will have to be set up at the borders because of all the ppl who will try to flee abroad with their remaining euros. Which would be more problematic if they get out with those euros, because Greece needs them to be brought back to the banks to exchange for drachmes.


In the long term it could be favorable. Because of the devaluation of the drachme, export and tourism will become more attractive.
But the question is .. how many "lost generations" are they willing to take to get to that point ?

That's the situation exactly, as you put it. I couldn't describe it better...My country needs logical solutions NOW...

[The New Richard Nixon]

CuriousGreek, on 30 November 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Do you have any evidence on what you're stating? We are working more than any other nation in Europe (yeah more than Germans too). We sure are not lazy. Please, get your facts straight, before you start talking. No offence

But how can Greece sort them selvesout? merge with Macedonia?

[CuriousGreek]

The New Richard Nixon, on 02 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

But how can Greece sort them selvesout? merge with Macedonia?

What do you mean '' merge with Macedonia''? Macedonia is a Greek region, not a country..!

[stevewinn]

The New Richard Nixon, on 02 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

But how can Greece sort them selvesout? merge with Macedonia?

they need to devalue their currency and adjust their interest rate, while at the same time making cuts at present they have no control over anything. they cannot devalue the currency, they cannot set their interest rate and the EU commission is telling them were to make cuts. - there is no way back for Greece, 6 years in recession unheard of in modern times. - its clear they cannot payback the money. but wont be allowed to default because the German elections are next year, and chancellor merkel is not going to win that election if all the German money paid to greece is lost. they'll continue to throw more and more money at greece hoping that the crisis with time will resolve itself.

you only have to look at the latest EU budget meeting, were all the poorer members who cream off the money like Poland for example were in favour of a contribution rise of 8%, Poland receives €10 billion from the EU, no wonder they're in favour of a budget increase. along with Greece, Hungary Spain and Portugal etc..

this is why the EU will never work in its current state, this is why they now openly talk of a federal EU. with everything centralised, listening to the EU debate one MEP Joseph Daul said, we need a budget increase to continue to build infrastructure, because all roads dont lead to Rome but to the capital of europe Brussels.

[Helen of Annoy]

CuriousGreek, on 02 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

What do you mean '' merge with Macedonia''? Macedonia is a Greek region, not a country..!

He referred to actual country called Macedonia, situated up north of your country, populated with Macedonians and quite significant number of Albanians.
Though Serbian, Bulgarian and Greece extreme nationalists all have pretensions to claiming the whole Macedonia or at least ripping a part of her for them, it’s not likely to happen anytime soon. Because people who have finances that enable them to wage wars are not interested in detonating the Balkan gunpowder barrel. Yet.
I wouldn’t look forward to the day when they change their minds and let Macedonian Albanians merge with Albania, thus setting off the brotherly Orthodox war for scraps of Macedonian territory.

In short, this is not the time for nationalist chest-thumping, in case you haven't noticed it.

[CuriousGreek]

Helen of Annoy, on 02 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

He referred to actual country called Macedonia, situated up north of your country, populated with Macedonians and quite significant number of Albanians.
Though Serbian, Bulgarian and Greece extreme nationalists all have pretensions to claiming the whole Macedonia or at least ripping a part of her for them, it’s not likely to happen anytime soon. Because people who have finances that enable them to wage wars are not interested in detonating the Balkan gunpowder barrel. Yet.
I wouldn’t look forward to the day when they change their minds and let Macedonian Albanians merge with Albania, thus setting off the brotherly Orthodox war for scraps of Macedonian territory.

In short, this is not the time for nationalist chest-thumping, in case you haven't noticed it.

Ι overlook that insult you made to me, by calling me a nationalist. I'll only say, that Greece will never claim the land of Macedonia, because real Macedonia is Greece. Greece is not looking to have a war with neighboring countries, even Fyro'm', even though we know that a bunch of Slavs have occupied a part of Macedonia (because Macedonia is not only the part, that Greece has on its own). So, i'm saying again that no country is named Macedonia and will be named thus in the future

[CuriousGreek]

Helen of Annoy, on 02 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

He referred to actual country called Macedonia, situated up north of your country, populated with Macedonians and quite significant number of Albanians.
Though Serbian, Bulgarian and Greece extreme nationalists all have pretensions to claiming the whole Macedonia or at least ripping a part of her for them, it’s not likely to happen anytime soon. Because people who have finances that enable them to wage wars are not interested in detonating the Balkan gunpowder barrel. Yet.
I wouldn’t look forward to the day when they change their minds and let Macedonian Albanians merge with Albania, thus setting off the brotherly Orthodox war for scraps of Macedonian territory.

In short, this is not the time for nationalist chest-thumping, in case you haven't noticed it.

All Balkan nations indeed are on the verge of fighting the others, because they all claim the land of Macedonia, but i hope that i won't see a war or something like that, until i die! I wouldn't feel like to go to other countries and start slaughtering people, just because they claim parts of Greece. Killing is not the solution. Studying History is.
P.S. I apologize for looking like a nationalist. I didn't mean to

Edited by CuriousGreek, 02 December 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[Helen of Annoy]

CuriousGreek, on 02 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Ι overlook that insult you made to me, by calling me a nationalist. I'll only say, that Greece will never claim the land of Macedonia, because real Macedonia is Greece. Greece is not looking to have a war with neighboring countries, even Fyro'm', even though we know that a bunch of Slavs have occupied a part of Macedonia (because Macedonia is not only the part, that Greece has on its own). So, i'm saying again that no country is named Macedonia and will be named thus in the future

Wanna bet?
There’s more Baranya in Hungary than there’s Baranja in Croatia, but nevertheless, Barania exists on both sides of the border.
If Hungarian Baranya would suddenly decide to secede from Hungary, Croatia would say: So what? and certainly wouldn’t demand Hungarian Baranya to change its name into Former Part of Hungary Because We Would Like It Back Though It Never Was Ours And We Also Don't Know How.
Slavs are a generous bunch. That explains why we are there where we are throughout the history.

I’m done hijacking this thread, unless you want me to continue?

Edited by Helen of Annoy, 02 December 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[CuriousGreek]

Helen of Annoy, on 02 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Wanna bet?
There’s more Baranya in Hungary than there’s Baranja in Croatia, but nevertheless, Barania exists on both sides of the border.
If Hungarian Baranya would suddenly decide to secede from Hungary, Croatia would say: So what? and certainly wouldn’t demand Hungarian Baranya to change its name into Former Part of Hungary Because We Would Like It Back Though It Never Was Ours And We Also Don't Know How.
Slavs are a generous bunch. That explains why we are there where we are throughout the history.

I’m done hijacking this thread, unless you want me to continue?

I'd rather not continue talking in here. Personal messages would be more preferable

[CuriousGreek]

Helen of Annoy, on 02 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Wanna bet?
There’s more Baranya in Hungary than there’s Baranja in Croatia, but nevertheless, Barania exists on both sides of the border.
If Hungarian Baranya would suddenly decide to secede from Hungary, Croatia would say: So what? and certainly wouldn’t demand Hungarian Baranya to change its name into Former Part of Hungary Because We Would Like It Back Though It Never Was Ours And We Also Don't Know How.
Slavs are a generous bunch. That explains why we are there where we are throughout the history.

I’m done hijacking this thread, unless you want me to continue?

No need to bet for something i know