92 replies to this topic

[Arbitran]

badeskov, on 15 April 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Very well then - I presume this means that we agree that there is no evidence of life outside of Earth - whatsoever!


Cheers,
Badeskov

We do not agree on that.

[badeskov]

Arbitran, on 15 April 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

We do not agree on that.

I see..

After you first admitted that you had no evidence of the Universe teeming with life and it was your own, personal belief after you made a definite statement which you were caught on. On top of you being shown that you definite statements about evidence of life in the solar system was not evidence at all and merely was evidence of options. Which you were also caught on. Don't you feel the slightest embarrassed when being caught on such baseless assertions? Seriously, you need to focus.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov, 15 April 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Arbitran]

badeskov, on 15 April 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

I see..

After you first admitted that you had no evidence of the Universe teeming with life and it was your own, personal belief after you made a definite statement which you were caught on. On top of you being shown that you definite statements about evidence of life in the solar system was not evidence at all and merely was evidence of options. Which you were also caught on. Don't you feel the slightest embarrassed when being caught on such baseless assertions? Seriously, you need to focus.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Well, my assertions are anything but "baseless". I wouldn't believe them if they were.

I maintain that the evidence from Titan is good evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life there. Do you disagree?

I have already requested that you offer an alternative, if you believe you have one that is more probable based on the facts.

[ShadowSot]

[Slave2Fate]

Arbitran, on 15 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

I have already requested that you offer an alternative, if you believe you have one that is more probable based on the facts.

We do not know enough about the origins of life (scientifically speaking) or the full scope of environmental variants that life can exist in to be able to assign any probability to alien life. Any attempt to would be no more than a guess, and for some that's not good enough. That's why if you have ten different scientists calculate the Drake Equation you'll get ten different figures. As it stands with our current knowledge, alien life is only a possibility pending further research. So far in my opinion the best evidence for alien life is the organic compounds found on Mars. Notice that they did not find organic matter but found organic compounds, the building blocks of life. Under the right circumstances those 'blocks' can become part of the process of life however we have no idea if those circumstances ever came to pass on Mars (or anywhere else for that matter), because we still don't know exactly what those circumstances are yet.

[None of the above]

Hi 10phella,

This is as easy one for me. No ambiguity, no question, life is not exclusive to the Earth.
Although we don't have the ability to personally examine other planets yet, my guess is that any of sufficient age where suitable conditions exist will host some sort of life.
However, I suspect that 'spacefaring' life (as we aspire to be) is likey to be a very rare minority amongst life, as species with that aspiration and ability are rare even on this planet (one, us!).
It may well be that the ability to traverse the gigantic distances involved is too great an obstacle and the few species who have the desire simply don't have the ability.

ATB
Gene

[badeskov]

Arbitran, on 15 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Well, my assertions are anything but "baseless". I wouldn't believe them if they were.

This I will not comment on based on your previous posts and beliefs here.

Quote

I maintain that the evidence from Titan is good evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life there. Do you disagree?

That is your prerogative and I respect you opinion on this matter. However, that was not what I contesting. I was contesting your notion that the scientists seemingly found it probable.

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

...but I, and seemingly the scientists, believe that life is the most probable answer.

That is an outright fabrication on behalf of the scientists made to bolster your argument and make it look like the scientists are agreeing with you. In fact, the scientists did not assign probabilities at all - on purpose I am guessing, because they simply do not know. And neither do you.

Are you so naive that you thought that we would not see that or do you simply not understand what the article states? In fact, you didn't read it at all, did you? You Googled some key words, took what looked best from the titles and posted those, didn't you? Frankly, I think the latter given the next part. I don't even think you read it, to be honest.

Quote

I have already requested that you offer an alternative, if you believe you have one that is more probable based on the facts.

There could be many alternatives I am sure (e.g., geological factors and poor understanding of the Titan atmosphere), but I have no idea what they could be besides some guesses. That, however, is completely beside the point. You were asked to prove your point that

Arbitran, on 13 April 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

1Ophelia, on 12 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm asking for everyone's opinion wether or not you believe any other life source exsists beyound planet earths atmosphere?

Absolutely yes. Every place where life can take root, it will evolve and adapt to that environment. Not all life results in intelligent life; and not all intelligent life results in space-faring races. But even so, there are millions of space-faring races; far more intelligent species; and billions upon countless billions of worlds where the seeds of life have sprouted.

and you replied

Arbitran, on 14 April 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

badeskov, on 14 April 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

This is simply not true. Neither NASA nor any other organization has found any evidence of microbes anywhere outside of Earth. If you think otherwise, please reference it.

They have. You should keep better informed: http://www.telegraph...turns-moon.html


http://news.national...-space-science/
<snip>

These turned out not to be the absolute evidence of life that you claim existed, which has now been pointed out numerous times by several posters here. But just to emphasize, here is another snippet from one of the references you provided:

Quote

"If these signs do turn out to be a sign of life, it would be doubly exciting because it would represent a second form of life independent from water-based life on Earth."Professor John Zarnecki, of the Open University, added: "We believe the chemistry is there for life to form. It just needs heat and warmth to kick-start the process.

"In four billion years' time, when the Sun swells into a red giant, it could be paradise on Titan."

So clearly this is just evidence that life could exist, not that it actually does. As stated before. But more importantly:

Quote

They warned, however, that there could be other explanations for the findings.

But taken together, they two indicate two important conditions necessary for methane-based life to exist.

Please take the time and read the bolded part. Slowly and carefully. And please ask questions if there is something you do not understand in that part, I am sure many are more than willing to help you understand it. As stated above, I have no idea what other explanations there could be, so I am just guessing. However, the scientists themselves states this so it is not upon my shoulders to come up with explanations for you because you do not read or cannot understand what is actually written. You claimed an absolute, we asked for evidence and you did not provide. The burden of proof is upon you given your claims. Not upon me, as I (as have others) have thoroughly torn your evidence apart and shown that it is not evidence of what you purported it to be (nor did the scientists writing said articles).Now, you can retract and acknowledge that you were wrong with respect to the statement of evidence, that actually commands respect. You can still hold your own, personal opinion and nobody would fault you for that. Or you can continue down the path you have trodden so far, but that is not going to earn you any credibility, rather the opposite. Your choice.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for layout.

Edited by badeskov, 15 April 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[badeskov]

ShadowSot, on 15 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

No more is required to be said - that says it all

Cheers,
Badeskov

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

badeskov, on 15 April 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

No more is required to be said - that says it all

Cheers,
Badeskov

you are to funny . do you really want proof? here is the prooof ...  ARE YOU ALIVE? is that not enuogh proof? or do you really really think that we humans are the sole creatures in this immense universe? there are more milky ways in the universe than sand here on earh and on the moon 2gether.
so we are the proof that life exist in the universe .now do you still want proof? or do you want me to explain . again .. so that you can understand?
if life can  exist here , than i dare to bet my life , that life is also  somewhere out there .
some of them are alrdy visiting us . i m sure of it ..

[badeskov]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 15 April 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

you are to funny . do you really want proof? here is the prooof ...  ARE YOU ALIVE? is that not enuogh proof? or do you really really think that we humans are the sole creatures in this immense universe? there are more milky ways in the universe than sand here on earh and on the moon 2gether.
so we are the proof that life exist in the universe .now do you still want proof? or do you want me to explain . again .. so that you can understand?
if life can  exist here , than i dare to bet my life , that life is also  somewhere out there .
some of them are alrdy visiting us . i m sure of it ..

Huh? Did I step on your sore toe or what? Didn't like your beliefs contested or what? Guess what, I was not contesting beliefs, I was contesting claims for evidence that were not evidence at all. You seriously did not understand the whole topic of this discussion, did you? How about you go back and read it again....

First of all, you missed this post of mine I guess:

badeskov, on 15 April 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Fair enough, I respect that. But it would be most helpful if you actually stated that you believe that the Universe is teeming with life rather than the absolute statement that it is teeming with life. I too believe the Universe is teeming with life.
...

Now, show me the proof of life elsewhere in the Universe. You can't! Because it does not exist. Whether you like it or not you cannot extrapolate from that life on Earth exists to that it exists elsewhere in the Universe. Do I believe it does? Sure I do. Do I know? No, I sure do not - and neither do you.

Cheers,
Badeskov


Edited for missing word.

Edited by badeskov, 15 April 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[WhyDontYouBeliEveMe]

yea you are right i missed that part...  sorry for that..
starting over.

i just gave you proof.
we are proof that life exist in the universe. we are the evidence. so tell me what do you really need? as proof.? shaking hands with aliens?
you better go shake ur neightbours hands and tell him ..

congratulations. you are proof that intelligent  life really do exist in the universe.. and tell him . wait . i dont have proof or evidence that life exist somewhere else. lets wait a bilion years. maybe we can make a spaceship . and go search for ET . but hey i believe they are out there..wait ,  i want solid proof.. so i dont really know if they are out there..and u wont either. so i really need proof.  .. .
thats you talking.. ..lol

you are trying to hard. to not believe. without evidence.

[Leonardo]

1Ophelia, on 12 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm asking for everyone's opinion wether or not you believe any other life source exsists beyound planet earths atmosphere?

Many people argue for the existence of life elsewhere than Earth, based on the range of environments here on our planet that life inhabits - but this is a false claim.

Life had to start first before it can inhabit a range of environments - and we don't know how easy, or difficult, it is for life to start.

However, given the staggeringly huge number of possible life-friendly environments that would seem to exist in our universe, I would bet on non-Earthly life existing somewhere. We may have to face up to the possibility, however, that we may be - for all intents and purposes - alone in our corner of the universe with no possibility of ever encountering any alien life at all.

[badeskov]

WhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 15 April 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

yea you are right i missed that part...  sorry for that..
starting over.

No worries.

Quote

i just gave you proof.
we are proof that life exist in the universe. we are the evidence. so tell me what do you really need? as proof.? shaking hands with aliens?
you better go shake ur neightbours hands and tell him ..


congratulations. you are proof that intelligent  life really do exist in the universe.. and tell him . wait . i dont have proof or evidence that life exist somewhere else. lets wait a bilion years. maybe we can make a spaceship . and go search for ET . but hey i believe they are out there..wait ,  i want solid proof.. so i dont really know if they are out there..and u wont either. so i really need proof.  .. .
thats you talking.. ..lol

Again, you cannot extrapolate. Just because life exists on this rock does not mean that it exists elsewhere. We simply do not know at this time. I certainly believe that it does, but that is irrelevant.

Quote

you are trying to hard. to not believe. without evidence.

Not at all. I believe. But with evidence I wouldn't need to believe - I would know. Huge difference. And I want to know if at all possible.

Cheers,
Badeskov

[kitco]

I was Abducted by Alien greys as a Child, from 8 years old to about 9.
I met the Nordics, and recently had abductions by Reptillian ShapeShifters, who feed of my fear. I was Infected by the Alien Virus, had fun witht the aliens on earth for 5 years, I could not control the Shifting of myself, and I loved scaring people and feeding off thier energy, thier are infected shapeshifters, you cannot feed off thier energy or you will get sick. they made 3 injections, one blue one red and one yellow, the blue one turns you into a shapeshifter, the red one takes your powers away and the yellow makes you infected. I could make people see anything, most poeple would ask me if I gave them drugs. everytime I made a big scene the aliens would come from wherever and fix it, I made them really angry, and I infected hundredsa of people with the virus, I was really powerfull aswell, so they kept me locked in plexyglass because I kept telling people who they were.... if you see your reflection you wont shapeshift and somehow plexiglass can keep your powers from working outside of the box. in the end they took my powers away and turned back the clock so it was as if nothing ever happened..... but I keep recalliong the memorys.

[SolarPlexus]

1Ophelia, on 12 April 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm asking for everyone's opinion wether or not you believe any other life source exsists beyound planet earths atmosphere?

Looking at it statistically I think it is likely