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Should New Laws Be Passed.


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#1    and then

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:25 AM

http://www.usatoday....da-day/2485049/

The homegrown variety of terrorists seem to be on the uptick.  Since they have the capacity to be far more damaging than those who must first find a way INTO our countries, should the penalties be more severe since they are being traitors?  If a Canadian or American is willing to kill fellow citizens indiscriminately for their religious beliefs then I think they deserve to be singled out for harsher punishment.  What say you all?

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#2    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:41 AM

For what purpose -- punishment or deterrence?

If for deterrence, punishments won't work.  The best deterrence is a near-certainty of being foiled, and this would call for even more domestic spying.

If for punishment, why?  Vengeance?


#3    and then

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:48 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 July 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

For what purpose -- punishment or deterrence?

If for deterrence, punishments won't work.  The best deterrence is a near-certainty of being foiled, and this would call for even more domestic spying.

If for punishment, why?  Vengeance?
No punishment will stop 100% of any type of crime.  But the numbers of individuals who would toy with the idea of betraying their homeland would be reduced if they knew of a certainty that they would be executed for such a crime.  I do not consider all punishment to be a form of vengeance, do you?  And I would rather have the attack occur, punish the perpetrators and move on living in a freer society than to have more spying being done.  Safety is an illusion anyway.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#4    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:59 AM

I don't think I'm alone when I say that we should bring back such classics as the rack and being hanged, drawn and quartered.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 03 July 2013 - 06:00 AM.

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:06 AM

View Postand then, on 03 July 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

No punishment will stop 100% of any type of crime.  But the numbers of individuals who would toy with the idea of betraying their homeland would be reduced if they knew of a certainty that they would be executed for such a crime.  I do not consider all punishment to be a form of vengeance, do you?  And I would rather have the attack occur, punish the perpetrators and move on living in a freer society than to have more spying being done.  Safety is an illusion anyway.
I don't think punishment by itself  deters crimes.  The people who are deterred would do not it anyway -- the criminal mind is a little different and manages not to think about consequences -- that is why they are criminals.  Now some aspects of a given punishment may reduce crime -- such as putting a criminal out of circulation -- that works, but the only deterrence that is effective is knowledge that failure is a virtual certainty.

With regard to terrorists who have political or religious motivations, they also have massive egos and hate the fact that most of the world ignores them, so they go for some act that will give them influence.  I just don't see how punishments will help here.  Indeed, such things only feed their self-righteousness and feeling of being persecuted that they thrive on.  I repeat myself -- the only thing to do to stop them is have massive internal surveillance.  I don't think that is yet in the cards, but one day when an American city goes up, it will be.


#6    chopmo

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:07 AM

With homegrown terrorism, (citizens that perfom terrorist acts) they could and should be trialed for Treason and Genocide which would serverly increase the penalties... They thought of that one quite some time ago, remember you guys had a Civil War, there would've been forms of what we view of terrorist acts performed by all parties involved to increase their potential of winning the war. Well in all wars in fact, we call it espionage in war, cyber criminal by non-funded. In all honestly personally I think the only reason they class it as or even have the term terrorism is because it is not uniformed soilders.

So even when you want to declare war... you need to be a "wealth" inherritent.

*I DO NOT CONDONE THE WAR OR THE ACTS SURROUNDING/INVOLVED (INCL. ALL ASSOSIATED TERMS CREATED FOR LABELING IN SUCH) IN THE WORLD OVER THE PAST 15-20 YEARS*

****... you realise how screwed we really are as a whole, when you have to use a disclaimer to try discuss a subject without becoming a person of interest :S

Edited by chopmo, 03 July 2013 - 06:09 AM.

why is everyone so &^%$ing concerned with "the end"...
new beginnings is what you should be concerned about...

#7    acidhead

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:21 AM

View Postand then, on 03 July 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

http://www.usatoday....da-day/2485049/

The homegrown variety of terrorists seem to be on the uptick.  Since they have the capacity to be far more damaging than those who must first find a way INTO our countries, should the penalties be more severe since they are being traitors?  If a Canadian or American is willing to kill fellow citizens indiscriminately for their religious beliefs then I think they deserve to be singled out for harsher punishment.  What say you all?

I think you are psychotic bro.  ... your faith is blinding you from the truth.

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#8    Almagest

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:27 AM

It's obviously not enough to try them as terrorists and murderers, gotta add a treason charge in there. Well would you support extending that charge of treason to say, Oliver North who sold weapons to Iran and lied about it? Or is it just young angry Muslims?

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#9    preacherman76

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 10:48 AM

Domestic terrorism is on the up tic?

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#10    Thanato

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:04 AM

For a quick answer, No.

For a long answer. If we start tailoring punishments to the individual how long before it becomes one person gets this type of punishment because of these set of personal factors and this person gets this punishment because of these personal factors. Yes I understand in some regards this happens today but it isn't written into Law it usually happens based on geographical Location. Domestic Terrorists are the same and should be treated the same (with possibly the added charges of treason) as foreign terrorists. They have a political goal that they want to convey by the mass murder.

There is no deterrence for terrorism, the best thing we can do is try and catch them. Which the Police have been doing a great job with help and thanks to the Muslim community (at least in Canada).

No need for new laws.

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#11    lightly

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

No.   There are enough laws to cover any contingency.  Including domestic terrorism.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#12    questionmark

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:50 PM

There are already enough laws, and transgression of laws, to fight terrorism. No need for more BS. Instead they should waste their breath on fighting terrorism.

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#13    preacherman76

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:19 PM

View PostThanato, on 03 July 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

For a quick answer, No.

For a long answer. If we start tailoring punishments to the individual how long before it becomes one person gets this type of punishment because of these set of personal factors and this person gets this punishment because of these personal factors. Yes I understand in some regards this happens today but it isn't written into Law it usually happens based on geographical Location. Domestic Terrorists are the same and should be treated the same (with possibly the added charges of treason) as foreign terrorists. They have a political goal that they want to convey by the mass murder.

There is no deterrence for terrorism, the best thing we can do is try and catch them. Which the Police have been doing a great job with help and thanks to the Muslim community (at least in Canada).

No need for new laws.

~Thanato

Yea man. The FBI is doing such a great job, that when they run outta terrorists to find, they find half retarded people to radicalize, fund, give them the terror plot from at to z and supply them (so they think) with the weapons to do it. It is down right scary how far they go to get us to believe terrorists are around every corner. And every new DHS training video that comes out shows the typical white middle class folks plotting terrorism. I think this threads existance shows how some people are buying it too. No offense and then.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#14    SoloCell

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

Without going too deeply into the subject matter, no, new laws are superfluous. We already have laws against murder, arson, assault, conspiracy and thousands of other crimes that we have trouble enforcing as it is. New laws just make it more confusing for law enforcement. What is really needed is better training and funding, not more "feel good" legislation that will, in all likelihood, be used against the wrong people. Domestic terrorists will still do their thing, but some poor kid who shows a moment of bad judgement and makes a joke about shooting people in public, will get a life sentence. Sadly, this is what happens with most of these new laws.

Edited by P4UL N0153, 03 July 2013 - 03:43 PM.


#15    Thanato

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:45 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 03 July 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Yea man. The FBI is doing such a great job, that when they run outta terrorists to find, they find half retarded people to radicalize, fund, give them the terror plot from at to z and supply them (so they think) with the weapons to do it. It is down right scary how far they go to get us to believe terrorists are around every corner. And every new DHS training video that comes out shows the typical white middle class folks plotting terrorism. I think this threads existance shows how some people are buying it too. No offense and then.

Show me proof, the in the US the FBI is making domestic terrorists and training them, etc. Proof with out resonable doubt.

~Thanato

"Your toast has been burnt, and no amount of scrapping will remove the black parts!" ~Caboose

"I will eat your unhappyness!" ~Caboose

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"Freedom isn't bought in stores, it is bought on battlefields." ~Thanato
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