2157 replies to this topic

[pallidin]

Babe Ruth, on 18 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Why yes!  How did you know?  Actually I'm the reincarnation of Allah Himself.  Quite perceptive on your part.

OK, Hahahahahaaa! So that's a no.

Great to hear!

You've had me worried a few times....  

[redhen]

Hi fish, after watching the bbc doc, I'm not buying the evidence presented for the Moro kidnapping by gladio.  Maybe I can find a translation of Moretti's book Brigate Rosse: una storia italiana where he states "that the murder of Moro was the ultimate expression of Marxist-Leninist revolutionary action."

Moretti did 15 years in prison for moro's murder.

But, but, the fact they found in a Red Brigade building a "printer owned by the Raggruppamento Unità Speciali dell'Esercito (part of SISMI, the office which trained Gladio agents) and, despite its relatively young age and its high value, had been sold out as a scrap."   highly suspicious, if true. http://en.wikipedia....ng_of_Aldo_Moro

Can anybody verify the credentials of this site? http://archivio900.g.../doc.aspx?id=84

Italiano anyone?

[Little Fish]

redhen, on 18 January 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Hi fish, after watching the bbc doc, I'm not buying the evidence presented for the Moro kidnapping by gladio.

http://www.telegraph...ro-killing.html

[redhen]

Little Fish, on 19 January 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

http://www.telegraph...ro-killing.html

Well,. we know the Italian government refused to negotiate with the Red Brigades, but the rest?

Steve Pieczenik (Peace-nik?) has made other controversial and false statements

"On May 3, 2011, radio host Alex Jones aired an interview in which Pieczenik claimed that Osama Bin Laden had died of Marfan syndrome in 2001 shortly after the September 11 attacks, and that the attacks on the United States on 9/11 were part of a false flag operation by the American government."

"On October 20, 2011 in an interview with Alex Jones, Pieczenik claimed that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is alive and said "There’s no way they killed Muammar Gaddafi, that’s not our operating mode"

http://en.wikipedia....Steve_Pieczenik

[flyingswan]

redhen, on 19 January 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....Steve_Pieczenik

Pieczenik's Wikipedia entry is suspiciously lacking in primary sources for his claims.  In fact, the sources given appear to include a lot of newpaper reports based on interviews with the man himself. He has claimed to have fitted a lot of achievements into a relatively short time, and I wonder whether he's embroidering his CV.  The "fiction writer" bit particularly reminded me of Lord Archer, another fiction writer with form in this area.

[pallidin]

Perhaps a "Pieczenik's syndrome" can be included in the upcoming DSM-5.  

[DONTEATUS]

A new meaning for the "CT`s"        Close THis !

[redhen]

DONTEATUS, on 19 January 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

A new meaning for the "CT`s" Close THis !

Fine with me. As the OP, I think I got the answers I asked for. Well, I got two coherent, reasoned arguments, but I think the evidence is weak. Much seems to me to be circumstantial post hoc fallacies.

For anyone new to the thread; all I'm asking for is a reasoned argument that establishes that 911 was an inside job. This necessarily involves explanations of who, why and how. If possible, please lay out your argument in a logical syllogism, because ..

“Fallacious and misleading arguments are most easily detected if set out in correct syllogistic form” - Immanuel Kant


Thanks

[Babe Ruth]

Declare Victory, and go home dude.  Make a movie about it, Bigelow is looking for work.

That won't change the truth or the facts.

[skyeagle409]

Babe Ruth, on 19 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Declare Victory, and go home dude.... That won't change the truth or the facts.

That explains why after more than 11 years, there is not one shred of evidence that explosives were used.

[skyeagle409]

redhen, on 19 January 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

For anyone new to the thread; all I'm asking for is a reasoned argument that establishes that 911 was an inside job. This necessarily involves explanations of who, why and how. If possible, please lay out your argument in a logical syllogism, because ..

“Fallacious and misleading arguments are most easily detected if set out in correct syllogistic form” - Immanuel Kant


Thanks

When the facts and evidence are closely examined, they proved beyond any doubt that the 911 attacks had nothing to do with a US government conspiracy. Let's do a recap on a few claims of 911 conspiracist that have been debunked with facts and evidence.

1. Claim: United 93 landed at Cleveland airport.

Fact: The aircraft 911 conspiracist confused as United 93, which was a B-757, was Delta 1989, which was a B-767.


2. Claim: Passengers of United 93 were seen boarding a bus at Cleveland airport.

Fact: 911 conspiracist confused scientist from a KC-135 as passengers from United 93.


3. Claim: A modified pod was seen attached beneath United 175.

Fact: 911 conspiracist confused main landing gear doors and aerodynamic fairings, which are standard on all B-767s, as a modified pod.


4. Claim: ACARS depicted airliners in-flight after the time of their reported crash times

Fact: ACARS depicted no such thing. Posters have presented undeniable facts and evidence depicting accurate ACARS information that debunked claims of 911 conspiracist. In addition, I've made phone calls to the ACARS experts, ARINC, whose experts told me the 911 conspiracist were incorrect.


5. Claim: Explosives were used

Fact: There is no evidence that explosives were used, not even on video, nor on audio nor depicted in seismic data. In fact, no detonation wires, blasting caps nor evidence of structural pre-weakening as found in the rubble of the WTC buildings.


6. Claim: The WTC buildings collapsed at free fall speeds

Fact: The evidence depicted on videos and from seismic data as the WTC buildings collapsed proved beyond any doubt the WTC buildings did not collapse at free fall speeds


7. Claim: The molten metal seen flowing from WTC2, was molten steel

Fact: The silvery droplets should have been an indication to the 911 conspiracist that the silvery droplets were not molten steel.


8. Claim: Nukes were responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings.

Fact: Not much to respond to that comment because simple common sense should have told them why nukes were not used.


9. Claim: Explosives brought down the light poles leading to the Pentagon

Fact: Evidence of impact damage on the light poles were clearly evident, which had nothing to do with explosives


10. Claim: American 77 flew north of the gas station

Fact: Damaged light poles and generator and distribution of wreckage within the Pentagon proved beyond any doubt that American 77 did not pass north of the gas station


11. Claim: American 77 flew over the Pentagon and was able to sneak into the airspace and land at Reagan National airport

Fact: There was no way for American 77 to sneak into the airspace and land at the airport without permission nor under the watchful eyes of local radars and ATC personnel.


12. Claim: No Boeing aircraft crashed at the Pentagon nor near Shanksville.

Fact: The wreckage distributed inside and outside the Pentagon, and near Shanksville are consistent with wreckage from B-757s


13. Claim: No aircraft was flown into the WTC buildings because they were holograms

Fact: B-767 wreckage was recovered at the crash sites.


14. Claim: A missile struck the Pentagon

Fact: There is no evidence that a missile struck the Pentagon. Additionally, the wreckage is consistent with wreckage of a B-757.


15. Claim: Two aircraft were identified as United 175 at Boston airport.

Fact: Employees of United Airlines and airport officials would have immediately noticed a discrepancy had that been the case and there was no way that ATC would have clear two airliners with identical flight numbers to leave the the airport in that short period of time, primary for safety reasons.


16. Claim: The 911 airliners were switched in flight

Fact: There was no way to switch B-767s nor B-757s in flight and not attract serious attention from air traffic controllers


17. Claim: Turning off the transponder will make an aircraft invisible

Fact: Not even the stealth aircraft is totally invisible on radar. Turning off the transponder makes an aircraft difficult to track on radar, not make it invisible. As the facts have it, other surveillance assets were able to track the airliners after ATC lost contact, but again, losing track or contact does not mean the aircraft was invisible on radar. Even birds can be tracked on radar.

Makes a person wonder why 911 conspiracist expect their false claims to stick in the absence of clear-cut supporting evidence, when in fact, the real evidence debunks their claims.

Edited by skyeagle409, 19 January 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[pallidin]

skyeagle409, on 19 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Makes a person wonder why 911 conspiracist expect their false claims to stick in the absence of clear-cut supporting evidence, when in fact, the real evidence debunks their claims.

Sky, as you know, it's called "delusion"; whereby clear facts(such as from you and other's) are ignored, incredible as it might seem.

But it truly is a psychological disorder. I know this, because I have an acquaintance that is clinically "paranoid-schizophrenic"

When on his med's he seems "relatively" normal and coherent, but, off his med's is a whole different story, with him then thinking that the government and everyone else out to "get him" or otherwise disrupt society.

Unfortunately, some either do not seek treatment, or else self-medicate, making their delusion even worse.

Hard to say with the CT's here. I'm no doctor nor do I pretend to be. Nor am I offerring any medical advice.
But I know what it means to "suffer"

I have a severe anxiety disorder, but apparently no clinical delusions.

[Babe Ruth]

You must be the only one, eh Pallidin, who knows what it means to suffer?

We are supposedly talking about facts and events here, not emotional baggage.

You guys are entitled to your opinions, as we all are, even if they are founded upon fantasy.

[skyeagle409]

Babe Ruth, on 20 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

You guys are entitled to your opinions, as we all are, even if they are founded upon fantasy.

Apparently, the official story is based on facts, not fantasy. What is based on fantasy are your claims that nukes were used in the 911 attacks, an anti-ship missile used to strike the the Pentagon and no Boeings responsible for the crash sites near Shanksville and at the Pentagon, among other false claims of yours.

[skyeagle409]

pallidin, on 20 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Sky, as you know, it's called "delusion"; whereby clear facts(such as from you and other's) are ignored, incredible as it might seem.

But it truly is a psychological disorder. I know this, because I have an acquaintance that is clinically "paranoid-schizophrenic"

When on his med's he seems "relatively" normal and coherent, but, off his med's is a whole different story, with him then thinking that the government and everyone else out to "get him" or otherwise disrupt society.

Unfortunately, some either do not seek treatment, or else self-medicate, making their delusion even worse.

Hard to say with the CT's here. I'm no doctor nor do I pretend to be. Nor am I offerring any medical advice.
But I know what it means to "suffer"

I have a severe anxiety disorder, but apparently no clinical delusions.

There are those who are in a habit of making things up as they go and when asked to provide evidence, they come up empty-handed.