275 replies to this topic

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 #23 #26 #27 and #58.

We have reached the point in this expatiation of The Qur'aan Cosmological Model that we can begin to penetrate into its depths. Up to this point I have attempted to make known that the Qur'aan does contain a comprehensive explanation for the existence of the universe. As I said in a previous post:-
The Qur’aan Cosmological model is a mathematical and graphical presentation of the origin, evolution, and ultimate fate of the current universe as it is contained in just two verses of the Qur’aan. These two verses provide us with the key words that describe the general evolution of the universe.

Khalqan = Tayyan +Ratqan +Fatqan +2Tayyan +2Ratqan +2Fatqan.
A near example in English:
Creation = Turn in +Rotate + Fire out +2Turn in +2Rotate +2Fire out.

The initial letters of these key words produce the following algorithmic compression;

Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F

Arabic is a language based on what we call root letters. From these root letters the entire language is built up. They are all consonants which are formed into patterns of two’s three’s or four’s. The Arabic language has 28 consonants and a special letter we call laam ‘alif. There are also only three vowels and vowel signs in the language which can be either short or long and when used are written either above or below the consonants to produce the words and in this case the root letters which are all verbs in the third person past tense. Don’t worry about all the details at this stage because they will all be wonderfully and easily explained further on and then everything will be easily understood.
It will be seen that when we run the Qur’aanic cosmological algorithmic compression
Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F
through the fundamental structure of the Arabic language then we witness a magnificent display of verbs, nouns, and adjectives that go back to describe each and every phase of the universe at its exact time and place in great detail. We are presented without exaggeration hundreds of beautiful informative illustrations of the phases the universe undergoes from its cosmological origin, through its cosmological evolution, and until its eventual cosmological end. And upon that we also see the derivation of many simple and logical abbreviations that precisely describe each and every phase of the universe. And then further beyond that we realize and see how the actions of the universe drive life into the dead and empty of meaning fundamental building blocks of the language- which are all the fundamental verbal patterns from which are derived the words of the language.
That in a nutshell is the Qur’aan Cosmological Model.

Have a good look at the illustrations on the chart below: Fig.001Ratq-Fa-Fatq. Don't miss out at this point. I will from time to time refer to previous posts that I have prepared to make our journey easy as we arrive at the steps to enter The Greatest Cosmological Model of all time. Remember that this so far is still only the less than one percent of The Qur'aan Cosmological Model.



To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

Edited by al-amiyr, 13 November 2012 - 02:16 PM.

[Rlyeh]

al-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 #23 #26 #27 and #58.

We have reached the point in this expatiation of The Qur'aan Cosmological Model that we can begin to penetrate into its depths. Up to this point I have attempted to make known that the Qur'aan does contain a comprehensive explanation for the existence of the universe. As I said in a previous post:-
The Qur’aan Cosmological model is a mathematical and graphical presentation of the origin, evolution, and ultimate fate of the current universe as it is contained in just two verses of the Qur’aan. These two verses provide us with the key words that describe the general evolution of the universe.

Khalqan = Tayyan +Ratqan +Fatqan +2Tayyan +2Ratqan +2Fatqan.
A near example in English:
Creation = Turn in +Rotate + Fire out +2Turn in +2Rotate +2Fire out.

The initial letters of these key words produce the following algorithmic compression;

Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F

Can you show an example of *using* this algorithm?

[al-amiyr]

Rlyeh, on 13 November 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Can you show an example of *using* this algorithm?

Yes! I have made a thread " The Qur'aan Lexicographical Model:". Have a look at it. I am going to use that program upon which the Qur'aan is based to take us into a higher dimension. I will be getting to that point soon. In the following posts I will begin to show how everything works.

[Karlis]

Greetings al-amiyr -- I can see that you intend to post lots of your research from the Koran here on UM. A huge amount of your information appears to be your own personal interpretation of the deeper nuances within the Koran. One problem is that most probably other posters will not be able to verify/prove/disprove your presentations, unless you also post cross-referenced proof-sources. You have attempted to present such cross-referencing, as for example, in the following excerpt from one of your posts:

>>>>>Be reminded that these four Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms that have already been explained earlier are all found in the Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane. This Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane is the greatest, on every level, Arabic - English dictionary ever produced in the English language and virtually contains the entire Classical Arabic Language upon which the Qur'aan is based. Edward William Lane was called, in his lifetime, the master of the Arabic Language. It is a work of breathless achievement- the greatest height a scholar could attain to maximum precise detail. I present to you the publishers note for further elaboration.   <<<<<

Unfortunately (to me at least), you seem to be moulding Edward William Lane’s translations (and other translators you mention) to suit your own uniquely personal interpretation of the Koran. Maybe if a neutral “third party” poster enters this thread, your “presentation” will turn into a discussion.


That said, the two verses from the Koran which you discuss in your first post -- “Qur’aan Chapter 021:030” and “Qur’aan Chapter 021:104” -- could have been sourced from the Hebrew “Old Testament” and the Greek “New Testament”, as copied below.

Psa 102:25  Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26  They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Heb 1:11  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

  Heb 1:12  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not
  fail.


Below are the two texts you quote from the Koran, presented in Three English Qur'an Translations from this website.

  
QUR'AN CHAPTER 21:
AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS)
Verse 30

21:30 a walam yaral-ladhiyna kafaruu an-nas samaawaati wal arDa kaanataa ratqan fa fataqnaahumaa* wa ja'Alnaa minal maai kul-la shay'in Hayy* afalaa yu'minuun
Click here to play the verse


Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
Did not the disbelievers observe that the heavens and the earth were together, so We parted them, and we made every living thing from water? So will they not accept faith?

Yusuf Ali:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
Pickthal:
Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?
Source
-=-=-=-



  
QUR'AN CHAPTER 21:
AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS)
Verse 104

21:104 yawma naTwis samaa-a ka Tay-yis sijil-li lil kutub* kamaa bada'naa aw-wala khalqin nu'Iyduh* wa'Ådan 'Alaynaa* in-naa kun-naa faa'Iliyn
Click here to play the verse


Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
The day when We shall roll up the heavens as the recording angel rolls up the register of deeds; We shall make him similar to Our making him the first time; this is a promise upon Us; We certainly have to do it.

Yusuf Ali:
The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.
Pickthal:
The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
Source
-=-=-=-




Perhaps, al-amiyr, it could be even argued that the truths you present from the Koran were originally given by God to the Hebrew prophets, and from there centuries later, paraphrased into the Koran. But that thought is another story for a different thread.

Best wishes in your efforts,
Karlis

[Rlyeh]

al-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Yes! I have made a thread " The Qur'aan Lexicographical Model:". Have a look at it.

I did, nowhere did you use this equation to calculate anything.

Quote

I am going to use that program upon which the Qur'aan is based to take us into a higher dimension. I will be getting to that point soon. In the following posts I will begin to show how everything works.

Do we need to wear Nikes and plastic bags over our heads?

[Cybele]

Lion6969, on 13 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

The beginning is fact whether the bigbang model is accepted it or not observations show that our universe began. What you forget is that video was flawed, because singularity is the limit if science and empirical data, QCM IS BASED ON THAT DATA, the scientist you refer to and the theories they propose deal with metaphysical stuff, ie beyond empirical data and science! That means if you believe on those you ate believing blindly because they don't even adhere to your own standards that you impose on the Quran and other things, they have no empirical proofs at all at least the bigbang is based on current empirical data ie it meets scientific and your standards yet you dismiss it for blind faith in some theory dealing with metaphysics? Irony!

Observations show that our universe is expanding and cooling. The Big Bang Theory is simply a logical reversal of this process. The merits of theories dealing with "before" the Big Bang are unrelated to the point I've made, which was that there is no consensus of the singularity indicating a beginning. Who says I "believe" in pre-big bang theories? I certainly didn't. They're untested as of yet, as you say. But the very fact that they exist indicates doubt in the minds of many physicists that the singularity is the origin of it all.

Lion6969, on 13 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Something united is split and separation, expansion on the other hand is specifically mentioned in other verses but such is depth of language that the verse which refer to splitting etc those words also denote expanse too, linguistically and by virtue of context but that a side expansion of the universe etc is mentioned in other verses as are other cosmological phenomena!

If the verse intended an expansion after the splitting, surely this would have been indicated in the translation. The latter does not necessarily imply the former. You misinterpreted the English, now you're avoiding the fact. Is this simply a red herring, or will you provide me with the verses you speak of above? I can guess that if you do and we come to different conclusions, you will simply maintain that I cannot access the original material in the original language, so my understanding is inherently inferior, as you are wont to do.

al-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Your thoughts are correct. It cannot be translated. A translation is only an idea what the Qur'aan is saying. The Qur'aan makes the assertion that it contains all the Models of knowledge and that those Models explain everything in detail. But where are those Models? Knowledge on a high level is required to extract them as you will see at the end of the subject of this thread. You have seen nothing yet. Thanks otherwise for stating your thought.

I mean no offense, but I don't see the point in making specific claims and drawing very specific parallels in front of an audience who supposedly cannot understand the true meaning and language of the original, untranslated text.

Edited by Cybele, 13 November 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[al-amiyr]

Karlis, on 13 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Greetings al-amiyr -- I can see that you intend to post lots of your research from the Koran here on UM. A huge amount of your information appears to be your own personal interpretation of the deeper nuances within the Koran. One problem is that most probably other posters will not be able to verify/prove/disprove your presentations, unless you also post cross-referenced proof-sources. You have attempted to present such cross-referencing, as for example, in the following excerpt from one of your posts:

>>>>>Be reminded that these four Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms that have already been explained earlier are all found in the Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane. This Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane is the greatest, on every level, Arabic - English dictionary ever produced in the English language and virtually contains the entire Classical Arabic Language upon which the Qur'aan is based. Edward William Lane was called, in his lifetime, the master of the Arabic Language. It is a work of breathless achievement- the greatest height a scholar could attain to maximum precise detail. I present to you the publishers note for further elaboration.   <<<<<

Unfortunately (to me at least), you seem to be moulding Edward William Lane’s translations (and other translators you mention) to suit your own uniquely personal interpretation of the Koran. Maybe if a neutral “third party” poster enters this thread, your “presentation” will turn into a discussion.


That said, the two verses from the Koran which you discuss in your first post -- “Qur’aan Chapter 021:030” and “Qur’aan Chapter 021:104” -- could have been sourced from the Hebrew “Old Testament” and the Greek “New Testament”, as copied below.

Psa 102:25  Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26  They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Heb 1:10  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Heb 1:11  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

  Heb 1:12  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not
  fail.


Below are the two texts you quote from the Koran, presented in Three English Qur'an Translations from this website.

  
QUR'AN CHAPTER 21:
AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS)
Verse 30

21:30 a walam yaral-ladhiyna kafaruu an-nas samaawaati wal arDa kaanataa ratqan fa fataqnaahumaa* wa ja'Alnaa minal maai kul-la shay'in Hayy* afalaa yu'minuun
Click here to play the verse


Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
Did not the disbelievers observe that the heavens and the earth were together, so We parted them, and we made every living thing from water? So will they not accept faith?

Yusuf Ali:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
Pickthal:
Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?
Source
-=-=-=-



  
QUR'AN CHAPTER 21:
AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS)
Verse 104

21:104 yawma naTwis samaa-a ka Tay-yis sijil-li lil kutub* kamaa bada'naa aw-wala khalqin nu'Iyduh* wa'Ådan 'Alaynaa* in-naa kun-naa faa'Iliyn
Click here to play the verse


Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
The day when We shall roll up the heavens as the recording angel rolls up the register of deeds; We shall make him similar to Our making him the first time; this is a promise upon Us; We certainly have to do it.

Yusuf Ali:
The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.
Pickthal:
The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
Source
-=-=-=-




Perhaps, al-amiyr, it could be even argued that the truths you present from the Koran were originally given by God to the Hebrew prophets, and from there centuries later, paraphrased into the Koran. But that thought is another story for a different thread.

Best wishes in your efforts,
Karlis

Dear Karlis
I like your post very much. The Qur'aan states that nothing that has been said to the Prophet Muhammad(S+) is new. The Qur'aan is the Book that restores the deeper meaning that lie deep in the other Divine Books. I myself lecture this depth found in the Torah ,as an example. I will discuss at a later time all your other valuable points.

Best wishes to you as well.
al-amiyr

[Seeker79]

I am finding this all very interesting. I can see the prallels in the text that can be linked to modern cosmology, but I must admit I am not quiped to handle the volume of information and of course like our resident cynics ( not skeptics), i know that rhetoric and parallels can be spun in many ways . I am however very equipped to understand spiritual symbolism and the extreem contextul information that comes from spirit to man. I also view the founders of all great religions as holy people, so I do not doubt their spirit.

My question. Like any scientific theory, do these intirpretations offer predictions that as of yet have not been tested, that can be or possibly will be. It's one thing to take what is already known and inturpret something to fit what we know to be true, it's quite another to predict things that we do not know, then we test for them and find out that prediction is true.

What predictions does this model make that we have not discovered yet? There in is what lies the usefulness of any theory.

Edited by Seeker79, 13 November 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Karlis]

Seeker79, on 13 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

~~~ ...

... My question. ... do these intirpretations offer predictions that as of yet have not been tested, that can be or possibly will be.



...
What predictions does this model make that we have not discovered yet? There in is what lies the usefulness of any theory.

To stay with the basic point that was introduced in the OP:

First, there is a revelation that the universe was created and had a beginning. Second, the universe will eventually come to a stage where it "ends", and then is "made again ... a new universe is created".

I guess theories based on scientific input already exist to support the *possibility* of the above claims, without the need of a creator.

[Seeker79]

Karlis, on 13 November 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

To stay with the basic point that was introduced in the OP:

First, there is a revelation that the universe was created and had a beginning. Second, the universe will eventually come to a stage where it "ends", and then is "made again ... a new universe is created".

I guess theories based on scientific input already exist to support the *possibility* of the above claims, without the need of a creator.

Those are not predictions that can be tested. Unless we wait until the end of time. If we are going to stick with science then we cannot take the puzzle piece that almost fits and pound it into place with our fist and say there is our picture. I always had that problem as a kid.

There is no evidence for the big crunch at the moment. All indications are that the expansion will continue and is speeding up. The result will depend upon the nature of dark energy.

Edited by Seeker79, 13 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 #23 #26 #27 #58 and #61

If you have not read the previous posts then you would not fully understand what is being said here.

Here is the nearest to perfection of of the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse (021:030). Every translation of this verse done so far are incorrect. I have studied this verse over a period of about thirty years and have studied the plus minus 70 Qur'aan translations done so far which ranges over a period of over two hundred years. I have discussed this verse with more than ten thousand persons during that period. I know all the rules of the Arabic language concerning it. And here is the translation.

- - -

"Have those who have disbelieved now not seen:-

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

And We made from al-maa' every living thing.

Will they now not believe?"

- - -

Let us now go forth to draw the first Space-Time diagram based upon the data extrapolated from the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse.

Qur'aan 021:030
that the samaawaat and the ‘arD
(1)- were both Ratqan
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

As we have already seen that when the Qur'aan speaks about the samaawaat, then it refers to the whole realm of extraterrestrial space and everything it contains.So the data that we derive from the Qur'aan is that the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the Galaxies, the Galactic Clusters,etc. and the Earth ('ard) were once a united mass that had collapsed from a previously separated state.

According to the data contained in the second Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse, which we shall analyze in a later post, this previously collapsed state was the result of a previously expanded universe that was brought down by ALLAAH in a spiraling formation that caused it to possess angular momentum. When it reached the state of maximum singular combination, with internal and external void, ALLAAH split the powerful rotating single entity apart and then blew into it the breath of life that cause it to undergo the great expansion that we have observed today.

According to the Qur'aan the universe did not originate from a big bang singularity. It began when the small and large 'burnt out' particles of the previously expanded and close to flat universe were brought into willing submission to be re-energized and rejuvenated to become a new creation.

The Qur'aan calls this a single Khalq or Creation - a collapse followed by an expansion and not an expansion followed by a collapse. See the delineation below.

The Qur'aan also states that the universe is in the democratic liberal state of run away expansion and shall go on ticking until it has reached maximum permitted expansion when it shall be halted by ALLAAH and when shall be The Final Hour which none shall be able to calculate or rather know other than him and him only.

The first Space-Time diagram based upon the data extrapolated from the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse.



To be continued inshaa allaah (if God had willed).

[al-amiyr]

Seeker79, on 13 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

I am finding this all very interesting. I can see the prallels in the text that can be linked to modern cosmology, but I must admit I am not quiped to handle the volume of information and of course like our resident cynics ( not skeptics), i know that rhetoric and parallels can be spun in many ways . I am however very equipped to understand spiritual symbolism and the extreem contextul information that comes from spirit to man. I also view the founders of all great religions as holy people, so I do not doubt their spirit.

My question. Like any scientific theory, do these intirpretations offer predictions that as of yet have not been tested, that can be or possibly will be. It's one thing to take what is already known and inturpret something to fit what we know to be true, it's quite another to predict things that we do not know, then we test for them and find out that prediction is true.

What predictions does this model make that we have not discovered yet? There in is what lies the usefulness of any theory.

100% Seeker79! Just continue reading. Everything will become very clear as we go further. I just need to get to a certain point and then all the discussions can begin. But all your observations and comments are much appreciated. We always learn new things as long as we keep our minds open.

[Rlyeh]

Instead of throwing around this "equation", can you show a meaningful use for it?
For instance E=mc2 is a meaningful equation, it allows the conversion of mass to energy. Kh=T+R+F+2T+2R+2F looks like something you've strung together without any understanding of algebra.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Lion6969]

Alienated Being, on 13 November 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I just find it rather interesting that the purported creator of the universe could not dictate the processes of the universe's creation in explicit detail, but instead mislead Muhammad in saying that the earth had been compacted with the stars and heavens when absolutely nothing existed... not even stars, nor the earth... nothing. It just was just a very compacted space. In fact, Allah should be ashamed of himself for not explaining it properly, as it is very misleading.

Secondly, asunder does not mean to "explode"; it means to "break apart", not necessarily indicating an explosion. Though, like all verses, I suppose you can dissect and analyze any part that you wish, and attach any meaning that you wish to the definitions.

Why does the creator need to reveal in the QURAN a book of guidance to mankind, a design paper, thesis, equations etc on how he created existence. You say it like you have the capacity of god to understand it and comprehend it. Lol! What he reveals is ample, he reveals in passing reference, but relates to us the mist fundamental aspects. For example that the universe began, it's finite and had a finite beginning. Why? Because everyone riot thought the universe had always been there, infinite etc. So he relates to this to clear our misconception about an infinite universe, he relays to us the state of universe before it was created, ie nothing, so we can understand this existence emerged from nothing, yet everything in our lives tells us that you get nothing from nothing, so gods illustrating he is the cause that created from nothing! He relays to us the singularity,so we know and understand our existences beginning, as no one prior to the Quran or modern scientific discoveries know this information, he relays to us that this universe is expanding etc, you getting the picture now. Relating and showing us these phenomena he has no need to be specific as you claim, because what he relays is fundamental and correct, the most important information, the mechanism and mechanics of it does not need to be shown because he has left that self discovery for us, as it will confirm his statements anyway, and knowing the mechanisms does not negate the agent behind them!

Lmao! Alien you always entertain me, as seine who believes alone in the gospel of science and it's clergy, you cannot fathom the notion that a singularity is the sum of all matter ie universe, which includes everything in it from stars to planets etc (which formed over eons after the big bang) were united bonded, all time, space, matter were this singularity, your problem is you seem to visualise this singularity existing in some vast space, no mate the vast space we call universe was this singularity.

Cleft asunder or breaking apart the singularity does refer to the big bang, however of visualise the big bang as massive explosion then you truly are naive and don't know science well at all, even though it's your gospel!

Experts however say that there was no explosion; there was (and continues to be) an expansion. Rather than imagining a balloon popping and releasing its contents, imagine a balloon expanding: an infinitesimally small balloon expanding to the size of our current universe

Another misconception is that we tend to image the singularity as a little fireball appearing somewhere in space. According to the many experts however, space didn't exist prior to the Big Bang.

The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know. We don't know where it came from, why it's here, or even where it is. All we really know is that we are inside of it and at one time it didn't exist and neither did we.

So what's cause, where did the singularity appear from?

Edited by Lion6969, 13 November 2012 - 06:52 PM.

[Alienated Being]

Lion6969, on 13 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Lmao! Alien you always entertain me, as seine who believes alone in the gospel of science and it's clergy, you cannot fathom the notion that a singularity is the sum of all matter ie universe, which includes everything in it from stars to planets etc (which formed over eons after the big bang) were united bonded, all time, space, matter were this singularity, your problem is you seem to visualise this singularity existing in some vast space, no mate the vast space we call universe was this singularity.

I am glad that you find humour in my sentiments.

Also, nice straw-man. I never said anything about believing that this singularity existed in any vast space.

Quote

Cleft asunder or breaking apart the singularity does refer to the big bang, however of visualise the big bang as massive explosion then you truly are naive and don't know science well at all, even though it's your gospel!

I never said anything of the sort, nor did I imply anything of the sort; I merely referred to your definition of "asunder", and how it simply means to "break apart". To break apart does not necessarily indicate expansion, either.

Quote

Experts however say that there was no explosion; there was (and continues to be) an expansion. Rather than imagining a balloon popping and releasing its contents, imagine a balloon expanding: an infinitesimally small balloon expanding to the size of our current universe

But of course. I never suggested anything to the contrary.

Quote

Another misconception is that we tend to image the singularity as a little fireball appearing somewhere in space. According to the many experts however, space didn't exist prior to the Big Bang.

The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know. We don't know where it came from, why it's here, or even where it is. All we really know is that we are inside of it and at one time it didn't exist and neither did we.

So what's cause, where did the singularity appear from?

You seem to enjoy taking attention away from the actual issue, don't you? Red-herrings everywhere. My initial assertion is that the creator of the universe mislead Muhammad in saying that the Earth and the heavens (stars, etc.) were all collected into one mass. One would assume that an intelligent creator of the universe would be able to differentiate between a planet and the matter which composes the planet.

But to answer your question pertaining to the origin of the singularity, nobody really knows the cause of the singularity, and nor where it appeared from. Scientists are working tirelessly in an attempt to find the answers to these questions, however. We may never find the answer.

Edited by Alienated Being, 13 November 2012 - 07:08 PM.