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If A Tree Falls In The Woods...


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#556    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

So... animals don't have ears? :w00t: only a human being can something? :w00t:

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#557    Godofcats

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

It does make a sound. You are forgeting that there are frequencies that the human ear cannot hear but it is there anyway. Sound is the air vibrating. So if the air is vibrating then a sound is being made it doesn't matter if a person csn perceive it or not. If a light is on in a room and nobody is in there to see it is there still light in the room?


#558    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

This is a hoary old thing of little use in analysis.  The problem merely plays on two different but closely related definitions of the phrase, "Make a sound."

It can mean (1) Cause sound waves (compression vibrations) in the air.
Or it can mean (2) Be interpreted as a sound by a sensate animal.

Since usually the two always go together, we don't normallly need the distinction, and therefore don't notice how the paradox is really just a confusion of the two meanings.


#559    Ealdwita

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostThePhantomFlanFlinger, on 06 October 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

eta... once a horse did a wee wee on me...that was a hell of a lot noisier..and damper.. :hmm:

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#560    FlyingAngel

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

It's a self-explained question. The question already contained the answer. The word "fall" apply the rule "cause=>consequence" so we can deduct the consequence out of it. If asking a question differently "If a tree is in the forest, will it make a sound?", this way we only know that it exists, we don't know what it will do.

More importantly, "how do you know that the tree actually fell in the forest if you were not there to witness it?", the claimed "fallen" tree could be brought by someone else to the forest.


#561    constantine_337

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

There is a story of a monk who passed by two other monks arguing about a temple flag waving in the wind.
One said: "The flag moves"
The other said: "The wind moves"
They argued back and forth but could not agree.
The monk passing by said: "It is not the wind that moves, it is not the flag that moves; it is your mind that moves.

So in my opinion it is a matter of ones own observation and perception. Quantum physics tells us that events happen differently by way of observation.
Its like the cat in the box paradox. The cat is supposed to be dead but is alive in the box until someone opens the box and observes that the cat is dead.

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#562    Frank Merton

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

You were doing great until you introduced quantum physics.


#563    lightly

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:10 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 05 October 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

Sound is a sensory perception and perceptions exist only in the mind.

Therefore it doesnt matter if you are there or not as sound isnt objectively real.

  If sound is only a perception... how can the right frequency/vibration break a wine glass?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#564    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:27 PM

Sound is a perception; sound waves are what we call the compression waves that travel through the air and get interpreted in our minds as sound.


#565    ChewiesArmy

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

I don't think it does make a sound. For there to be a sound, two things must happen: vibrations must be emitted, and, they must be "heard" by something, otherwise they are just a disturbance in the air.

The same question could be asked about smell, if a bear poops in the woods, does it still smell?

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#566    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

I suspect the bear will smell it.

People make way too much of all this.  We only make the point that what we think we see, hear, smell and so on is an illusion.  The reality is light waves and sound waves and chemicals floating about in the air.  The latter is physical and through complicated brain processes gets turned into experiences in our minds ("qualia").  

These experiences are not delusions (unless there is no physical stimulus in the first place).  They are illusions -- they are not the real thing but only our experience in our mind.

This was profound when the Buddha (or whoever -- it was probably understood long before him) pointed it all out, but modern neurology works with this all the time now.


#567    henry9449

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:00 PM

please consider the implications of the infinite IS there there is no begining  no middle therefore all events fall between what was and what maybe see beyond the forest ,
one side of the trees is shade one side is sunlight and knowledge.


#568    lightly

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 April 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Sound is a perception; sound waves are what we call the compression waves that travel through the air and get interpreted in our minds as sound.

hi Frank,   that's a good distinction ,  Sound /perception, and,  Sound Waves /physical.  Yes,  we perceive sound .  We also perceive light,  if we close our eyes does the sun stop shining?  If we plug our ears does a sound stop? Does it stop being a sound the instant we no longer hear it? .. I get your distinction though.
So ,ok , from now on if a tree falls anywhere on earth and   I'M  not there to hear it,  i'm gonna have to assume that it didn't make any noise at all. :P

  *

Edited by lightly, 10 April 2013 - 10:25 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#569    henry9449

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:05 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 15 March 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

So... animals don't have ears? :w00t: only a human being can something? :w00t:
are you sure !!!


#570    henry9449

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

View Posthenry9449, on 11 April 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

are you sure !!!
perhaps you should think without the pipe





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