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#1    krypter3

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

Sorry if this has been reposted, but I've just seen it and wow.  This guy is all kinds of crazy, it was semi interesting until he got to the flood -_-




#2    StarMountainKid

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:08 PM

I've seen a critique of this kind of mistaken analysis and purposeful misrepresentation of the geological record. These people are either ignorant of geology or just plain knowingly lie.

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#3    Quaentum

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

It is also easy to disprove the flood is a historical accounting argument

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#4    Jor-el

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:27 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 30 April 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

It is also easy to disprove the flood is a historical accounting argument

On the contrary...  it is quite historical. Ignoring the obvious OP post on the dinosaur issue, which is a riot and simply unbelievable for the most part. One should not confuse a historical flood with the dinosaurs in any way. Since creationists have this very narrow tendency to insist on a 7000 year old world, they are forced to make some very obvious and sometimes ignorant mistakes like that.

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#5    ambelamba

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 30 April 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

It is also easy to disprove the flood is a historical accounting argument

The real issue is the scale of the flood.

Although there was no flood that covered the entire Earth, there were major mega floods happened at the end of the last ice age.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

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#6    Jor-el

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 30 April 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

The real issue is the scale of the flood.

Although there was no flood that covered the entire Earth, there were major mega floods happened at the end of the last ice age.

There was one event that approached the epic scale of a global flood and also explains the details we have in a number of religious texts including the bible.

Impact Craters as Sources of Megatsunami Generated Chevron Dunes
Verifying the Sources of Holocene Age Megatsunami Deposits
Tsunamis from Impacts
Ancient Crash, Epic Wave

Google Earth View of Burckle Crater

The Burckle Impact Event

Edited by Jor-el, 30 April 2013 - 11:51 PM.

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#7    Royal

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:41 AM

Watched 16.01 minutes before my brain could'nt take it any longer.

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#8    Quaentum

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostJor-el, on 30 April 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

On the contrary...  it is quite historical. Ignoring the obvious OP post on the dinosaur issue, which is a riot and simply unbelievable for the most part. One should not confuse a historical flood with the dinosaurs in any way. Since creationists have this very narrow tendency to insist on a 7000 year old world, they are forced to make some very obvious and sometimes ignorant mistakes like that.

View PostRon Jeremy, on 30 April 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

The real issue is the scale of the flood.

Although there was no flood that covered the entire Earth, there were major mega floods happened at the end of the last ice age.

That there was a flood is quite probable but that's where it ends.  The rest of the biblical story is based on earlier versions elsewhere and in some cases greatly inflated with additional materials added to flesh out the story.  To me a certain amount of detail must be accurate for it to be a historical account.  IMO the biblical account is just a story based on a real event but there is not sufficient accuracy in the details to make it a historical account.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#9    White Crane Feather

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

There is some good evidence pointing to the flood of the Caspian sea as being the biblical flood. There are ancient communities under the water, and the dates and geography are close.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#10    Jor-el

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 01 May 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

That there was a flood is quite probable but that's where it ends.  The rest of the biblical story is based on earlier versions elsewhere and in some cases greatly inflated with additional materials added to flesh out the story.  To me a certain amount of detail must be accurate for it to be a historical account.  IMO the biblical account is just a story based on a real event but there is not sufficient accuracy in the details to make it a historical account.

Oh, in what way? what details must be sufficiently accurate for it to be a historical account?

And why should the story be accurate to the degree expected of a modern day culture when there is not a single historical account in the entire world that holds to this modernist viewpoint. People expect these accounts, whether they be biblical or not to conform to this ides that they must be objective, factual pieces of information in all regards, when this is one of the greatest illsions of history itself...

One should ask why we have one or two quotes which we all know but always forget when confronted with actual history...

"History is written by the victors."

And are the victors going to tell the objective and factual truth? Not by a long shot.

“History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston Churchill


“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte


“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon

Per chance are any of these lies?

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#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostJor-el, on 01 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:



Oh, in what way? what details must be sufficiently accurate for it to be a historical account?

And why should the story be accurate to the degree expected of a modern day culture when there is not a single historical account in the entire world that holds to this modernist viewpoint. People expect these accounts, whether they be biblical or not to conform to this ides that they must be objective, factual pieces of information in all regards, when this is one of the greatest illsions of history itself...

One should ask why we have one or two quotes which we all know but always forget when confronted with actual history...

"History is written by the victors."

And are the victors going to tell the objective and factual truth? Not by a long shot.

“History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston Churchill


“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte


“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon

Per chance are any of these lies?
Id say the victors are Christians, since they are the dominant religion upon the earth. Still, what is accepted as history is not necessarily in the bible. Your logic dosnt really hold up. The flood story is in all likely hood an ancient oral tradition based upon some truth, but changed over time.

You should see how tribes in remote islands near Thailand survived the tsunamis... Yup you guessed it. Oral traditions involving a battle of the water and land spiirits after the the world tree was shaken. ;) :D

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    Jor-el

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 01 May 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Id say the victors are Christians, since they are the dominant religion upon the earth. Still, what is accepted as history is not necessarily in the bible. Your logic dosnt really hold up. The flood story is in all likely hood an ancient oral tradition based upon some truth, but changed over time.

You should see how tribes in remote islands near Thailand survived the tsunamis... Yup you guessed it. Oral traditions involving a battle of the water and land spiirits after the the world tree was shaken. ;) :D

The bible wasn't written by christians, especially the parts referring to this particular thread.

And you think that wasn't truth to them? When they tell the story, that is the exact truth they are speaking to their children, they are telling it the way the see it through their eyes, not yours. You can call those tribesmen ignorant all you want but just because you can explain the facts doesn't make their story any less true.

What is accepted as history as you call it is simply an interpretation of events according to the information available, so it cannot really be called historical, all it can claim is that it is the historians understanding of the events, it is no more likely than any other.

For example, why did Japan attack Pearl Harbour? The common "historical" interpretation is because they wanted to destroy the fleet based there so that they could invade the pacific unoposed. True, but what people don't really know is that the USA actually started that war.

http://whatreallyhap...6315/pearl.html

So, the victors do write the history books. But it doesn't mean they are "historical".

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston Churchill

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon

Now getting back to the issue at hand, the events in the bible are indeed historical, they are history as seen from the viewpoint of the people who wrote them. Are they factual? Well now that is altogether another question.

But it is a question that cannot be answered because of one thing, evidence. But wait, we do have evidence.... there was indeed a great flood that did indeed drown the land.

Now according to the bible the Flood was caused by rain and by the fountains of the deep being broken open. In other words something other than just rain caused the flood. The mention of the fountains of the deep being broken open indicates a cataclysm of some kind that tore the waters from their correct place.

The majority of the myths describe a torrential, long duration rainstorm, in many cases accompanied by a huge tsunami. The water is often described as hot, sometimes coming as hot ocean swells, sometimes as burning rain. The described durations of the flood storm in the various myths, when plotted, form a bell-shaped curve with the great majority clustering between four and ten days. Tsunamis are described as extending between 15 and 100 km inland. Survivors typically find refuge in places between 150 and 300 meters above sea level.

Supernatural creatures are associated with the flood storm in nearly half the cases studied. Typical are giant snakes or water serpents, giant birds, giant horned snakes, a fallen angel, a star with fiery tail, a tongue of fire, and similar elongated things in or from the sky. Looking in detail at descriptions in the mythology, particularly those of the Indian subcontinent, we see a close resemblance to the naked-eye appearance of a near-earth post-perihelion comet.

Sixteen of the myths examined describe when the flood storm occurred in terms of seasonal indicators. Fourteen myths are from Northern Hemisphere groups, and place the event in the spring. The one from the Southern Hemisphere places it in the fall, that is, spring north of the equator. Seven stories give the time in terms of lunar phase, six at the time of the full Moon, another two days later. Stories from Africa and South America say it happened at the time of a lunar eclipse, which can only occur when the Moon is full. A 4th century BC Babylonian account specifies a full Moon in late April or early May.

Chinese sources recount how the cosmic monster Gong Gong knocked over a pillar of heaven and caused flooding toward the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa, around 2810 BC. The 3rd century BC Egyptian historian Manetho says there was an "immense disaster" (but doesn't say what kind) during the reign of the pharaoh Semerkhet, around 2800 BC. The tomb of Semerkhet's successor, Qa'a, was built of poorly dried mud bricks and timbers showing unusual decay; the following pharaohs of the second dynasty relocated the royal cemetery to higher ground. Analysis of astrological references in multiple myths from the Middle East, India and China, describing planetary conjunctions associated with the flood storm, whose actual times of occurrence can be reconstructed using contemporary astronomy software, leads one to conclude that the event happened on or about May 10, 2807 BC.

What was it that happened?

Well it seems the myths provide clues to that, too. For one thing, they report massive rain, falling for days at a time. This turns out to be exactly what can be expected if a large comet plunged into the deep ocean, it would loft nearly ten times its mass of water into the upper atmosphere, where it would spread widely and then fall, taking days to empty the skies. A large impact in the ocean would also cause gigantic tsunamis, as many of the myths report. In India, for example, Tamil myths tell of the sea rushing 100 km inland, a hundred meters deep.

Plotting the distribution of great flood myths together with specific reported phenomena like directions from which great winds blew or tsunamis came, we find that the most efficient way to account for them is by positing a very large comet impact in the central or southern Indian Ocean. This might not account very well for flood myths in the Americas, but flooding there could have resulted from partial disintegration of the incoming comet, with two or more pieces falling on different parts of the earth over a period of hours or days. Some of the myths speak of multiple events happening in close succession. But the really big impact, the most lethal of the bunch, occurred somewhere south of Madagascar.

And this particular impact crater has in fact been found. It is 30 km wide. It is 3800 meters below the surface of the ocean, and gues what it happened between 2800 B.C. and 3000 B.C. It would have caused a 2,000,000 megaton explosion and caused  a number of succesive mega tsunamis that would have been over 200 meters in height. It is called the Burckle crater and It is in the Mid Indian Ocean.

Posted Image



Edited by Jor-el, 01 May 2013 - 08:28 PM.

Posted Image


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-C. S. Lewis


#13    Sherapy

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostJor-el, on 01 May 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

The bible wasn't written by christians, especially the parts referring to this particular thread.

And you think that wasn't truth to them? When they tell the story, that is the exact truth they are speaking to their children, they are telling it the way the see it through their eyes, not yours. You can call those tribesmen ignorant all you want but just because you can explain the facts doesn't make their story any less true.

What is accepted as history as you call it is simply an interpretation of events according to the information available, so it cannot really be called historical, all it can claim is that it is the historians understanding of the events, it is no more likely than any other.

For example, why did Japan attack Pearl Harbour? The common "historical" interpretation is because they wanted to destroy the fleet based there so that they could invade the pacific unoposed. True, but what people don't really know is that the USA actually started that war.

http://whatreallyhap...6315/pearl.html

So, the victors do write the history books. But it doesn't mean they are "historical".

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston Churchill

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon

Now getting back to the issue at hand, the events in the bible are indeed historical, they are history as seen from the viewpoint of the people who wrote them. Are they factual? Well now that is altogether another question.

But it is a question that cannot be answered because of one thing, evidence. But wait, we do have evidence.... there was indeed a great flood that did indeed drown the land.

Now according to the bible the Flood was caused by rain and by the fountains of the deep being broken open. In other words something other than just rain caused the flood. The mention of the fountains of the deep being broken open indicates a cataclysm of some kind that tore the waters from their correct place.

The majority of the myths describe a torrential, long duration rainstorm, in many cases accompanied by a huge tsunami. The water is often described as hot, sometimes coming as hot ocean swells, sometimes as burning rain. The described durations of the flood storm in the various myths, when plotted, form a bell-shaped curve with the great majority clustering between four and ten days. Tsunamis are described as extending between 15 and 100 km inland. Survivors typically find refuge in places between 150 and 300 meters above sea level.

Supernatural creatures are associated with the flood storm in nearly half the cases studied. Typical are giant snakes or water serpents, giant birds, giant horned snakes, a fallen angel, a star with fiery tail, a tongue of fire, and similar elongated things in or from the sky. Looking in detail at descriptions in the mythology, particularly those of the Indian subcontinent, we see a close resemblance to the naked-eye appearance of a near-earth post-perihelion comet.

Sixteen of the myths examined describe when the flood storm occurred in terms of seasonal indicators. Fourteen myths are from Northern Hemisphere groups, and place the event in the spring. The one from the Southern Hemisphere places it in the fall, that is, spring north of the equator. Seven stories give the time in terms of lunar phase, six at the time of the full Moon, another two days later. Stories from Africa and South America say it happened at the time of a lunar eclipse, which can only occur when the Moon is full. A 4th century BC Babylonian account specifies a full Moon in late April or early May.

Chinese sources recount how the cosmic monster Gong Gong knocked over a pillar of heaven and caused flooding toward the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa, around 2810 BC. The 3rd century BC Egyptian historian Manetho says there was an "immense disaster" (but doesn't say what kind) during the reign of the pharaoh Semerkhet, around 2800 BC. The tomb of Semerkhet's successor, Qa'a, was built of poorly dried mud bricks and timbers showing unusual decay; the following pharaohs of the second dynasty relocated the royal cemetery to higher ground. Analysis of astrological references in multiple myths from the Middle East, India and China, describing planetary conjunctions associated with the flood storm, whose actual times of occurrence can be reconstructed using contemporary astronomy software, leads one to conclude that the event happened on or about May 10, 2807 BC.

What was it that happened?

Well it seems the myths provide clues to that, too. For one thing, they report massive rain, falling for days at a time. This turns out to be exactly what can be expected if a large comet plunged into the deep ocean, it would loft nearly ten times its mass of water into the upper atmosphere, where it would spread widely and then fall, taking days to empty the skies. A large impact in the ocean would also cause gigantic tsunamis, as many of the myths report. In India, for example, Tamil myths tell of the sea rushing 100 km inland, a hundred meters deep.

Plotting the distribution of great flood myths together with specific reported phenomena like directions from which great winds blew or tsunamis came, we find that the most efficient way to account for them is by positing a very large comet impact in the central or southern Indian Ocean. This might not account very well for flood myths in the Americas, but flooding there could have resulted from partial disintegration of the incoming comet, with two or more pieces falling on different parts of the earth over a period of hours or days. Some of the myths speak of multiple events happening in close succession. But the really big impact, the most lethal of the bunch, occurred somewhere south of Madagascar.

And this particular impact crater has in fact been found. It is 30 km wide. It is 3800 meters below the surface of the ocean, and gues what it happened between 2800 B.C. and 3000 B.C. It would have caused a 2,000,000 megaton explosion and caused  a number of succesive mega tsunamis that would have been over 200 meters in height. It is called the Burckle crater and It is in the Mid Indian Ocean.

Posted Image

View PostJor-el, on 01 May 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

The bible wasn't written by christians, especially the parts referring to this particular thread.

And you think that wasn't truth to them? When they tell the story, that is the exact truth they are speaking to their children, they are telling it the way the see it through their eyes, not yours. You can call those tribesmen ignorant all you want but just because you can explain the facts doesn't make their story any less true.

What is accepted as history as you call it is simply an interpretation of events according to the information available, so it cannot really be called historical, all it can claim is that it is the historians understanding of the events, it is no more likely than any other.

For example, why did Japan attack Pearl Harbour? The common "historical" interpretation is because they wanted to destroy the fleet based there so that they could invade the pacific unoposed. True, but what people don't really know is that the USA actually started that war.

http://whatreallyhap...6315/pearl.html

So, the victors do write the history books. But it doesn't mean they are "historical".

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
― Winston Churchill

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon

Now getting back to the issue at hand, the events in the bible are indeed historical, they are history as seen from the viewpoint of the people who wrote them. Are they factual? Well now that is altogether another question.

But it is a question that cannot be answered because of one thing, evidence. But wait, we do have evidence.... there was indeed a great flood that did indeed drown the land.

Now according to the bible the Flood was caused by rain and by the fountains of the deep being broken open. In other words something other than just rain caused the flood. The mention of the fountains of the deep being broken open indicates a cataclysm of some kind that tore the waters from their correct place.

The majority of the myths describe a torrential, long duration rainstorm, in many cases accompanied by a huge tsunami. The water is often described as hot, sometimes coming as hot ocean swells, sometimes as burning rain. The described durations of the flood storm in the various myths, when plotted, form a bell-shaped curve with the great majority clustering between four and ten days. Tsunamis are described as extending between 15 and 100 km inland. Survivors typically find refuge in places between 150 and 300 meters above sea level.

Supernatural creatures are associated with the flood storm in nearly half the cases studied. Typical are giant snakes or water serpents, giant birds, giant horned snakes, a fallen angel, a star with fiery tail, a tongue of fire, and similar elongated things in or from the sky. Looking in detail at descriptions in the mythology, particularly those of the Indian subcontinent, we see a close resemblance to the naked-eye appearance of a near-earth post-perihelion comet.

Sixteen of the myths examined describe when the flood storm occurred in terms of seasonal indicators. Fourteen myths are from Northern Hemisphere groups, and place the event in the spring. The one from the Southern Hemisphere places it in the fall, that is, spring north of the equator. Seven stories give the time in terms of lunar phase, six at the time of the full Moon, another two days later. Stories from Africa and South America say it happened at the time of a lunar eclipse, which can only occur when the Moon is full. A 4th century BC Babylonian account specifies a full Moon in late April or early May.

Chinese sources recount how the cosmic monster Gong Gong knocked over a pillar of heaven and caused flooding toward the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa, around 2810 BC. The 3rd century BC Egyptian historian Manetho says there was an "immense disaster" (but doesn't say what kind) during the reign of the pharaoh Semerkhet, around 2800 BC. The tomb of Semerkhet's successor, Qa'a, was built of poorly dried mud bricks and timbers showing unusual decay; the following pharaohs of the second dynasty relocated the royal cemetery to higher ground. Analysis of astrological references in multiple myths from the Middle East, India and China, describing planetary conjunctions associated with the flood storm, whose actual times of occurrence can be reconstructed using contemporary astronomy software, leads one to conclude that the event happened on or about May 10, 2807 BC.

What was it that happened?

Well it seems the myths provide clues to that, too. For one thing, they report massive rain, falling for days at a time. This turns out to be exactly what can be expected if a large comet plunged into the deep ocean, it would loft nearly ten times its mass of water into the upper atmosphere, where it would spread widely and then fall, taking days to empty the skies. A large impact in the ocean would also cause gigantic tsunamis, as many of the myths report. In India, for example, Tamil myths tell of the sea rushing 100 km inland, a hundred meters deep.

Plotting the distribution of great flood myths together with specific reported phenomena like directions from which great winds blew or tsunamis came, we find that the most efficient way to account for them is by positing a very large comet impact in the central or southern Indian Ocean. This might not account very well for flood myths in the Americas, but flooding there could have resulted from partial disintegration of the incoming comet, with two or more pieces falling on different parts of the earth over a period of hours or days. Some of the myths speak of multiple events happening in close succession. But the really big impact, the most lethal of the bunch, occurred somewhere south of Madagascar.

And this particular impact crater has in fact been found. It is 30 km wide. It is 3800 meters below the surface of the ocean, and gues what it happened between 2800 B.C. and 3000 B.C. It would have caused a 2,000,000 megaton explosion and caused  a number of succesive mega tsunamis that would have been over 200 meters in height. It is called the Burckle crater and It is in the Mid Indian Ocean.

Posted Image



Jor el, another approach to myths that I have learned is they were used to give the lay of the cultural customs of the supernatural (beliefs/climate) at the time. It is a way to impart the rules, beliefs,customs and traditions of the times. Myths tell the cultural story as far as what a culture believes, not that what they believe is true, nor do they represent historical fact or even point to it. Myths are not the facts of the times, they deal with the supernatural.

This is not to discount that Myth was/is of great value, as it offered a way to acclimate a person (a crash course)  into a cultures supernatural traditions. I give them that,  but IMO you assign far more to them then is warranted. No one perception or approach can tell the whole story, it just gives parts. I think of it like a puzzle each POV gives a bigger understanding, yet no one piece contains the whole picture.

Edited by Sherapy, 01 May 2013 - 09:52 PM.




#14    libstaK

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Ok so I lasted 20 minutes, time I will never get back.  All kinds of crazy doesn't even begin to cover it.  I don't know how much time he spends debunking the scientific community based on Jurassic Park and Michael Crichton but I would hazard that making that correlation for as much as a nano second would be too long by any sane person's standards - just saying.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#15    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostSherapy, on 01 May 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Jor el, another approach to myths that I have learned is they were used to give the lay of the cultural customs of the supernatural (beliefs/climate) at the time. It is a way to impart the rules, beliefs,customs and traditions of the times. Myths tell the cultural story as far as what a culture believes, not that what they believe is true, nor do they represent historical fact or even point to it. Myths are not the facts of the times, they deal with the supernatural.

This is not to discount that Myth was/is of great value, as it offered a way to acclimate a person (a crash course)  into a cultures supernatural traditions. I give them that,  but IMO you assign far more to them then is warranted. No one perception or approach can tell the whole story, it just gives parts. I think of it like a puzzle each POV gives a bigger understanding, yet no one piece contains the whole picture.

What one believes and what one believes is true is exactly the same thing, another item one should consider, myth is not synonymous with fiction. And as you say, they deal with extraordinary events, which some people label supernatural which means outside of the normal natural world, which again does not mean they are untrue.

As for the 2nd bolded phrase... much like history is also only one perception or approach since no one can claim it to be factual.

As you may have read in the post you quoted, the POVS of quite a number of ancient civilizations give us exactly what the bible also claims... go figure.

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