Still Waters Posted January 6, 2015 #1 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The UK's Ministry of Defence has issued a reminder to young officers to salute their superiors. But when did this form of greeting originate and why is it used, asks Justin Parkinson. The salute is often thought to date back to Roman times, but there is no evidence that soldiers raised their hand as a formal greeting. Another theory is that it originated in medieval Europe, when knights used their hands to raise their visors, revealing their identity to demonstrate they were friendly. This explanation is also regarded with scepticism. http://www.bbc.co.uk...onitor-30679406 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 6, 2015 #2 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I thought it was a left over ceremonial action that was intended to raise the hand to the level of the face to show that no weapon is being held. Similar to shaking hands, but at a distance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted January 6, 2015 #3 Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's part of the behavior modification that reinforces the chain of command, reminding one of the their lack of worth and the unimportance of your individual thoughts and reminds one, that when told to... one should run toward a machine gun nest filled with strangers you've never met and attempt to kill them. or that's what it means to me anyway... :S 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted January 6, 2015 #4 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) i was told in the army, you aren't saluting the man but the rank, out of respect for said rank. Edited January 6, 2015 by danielost 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhunter Posted January 6, 2015 #5 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) It's a symbol of giving your mind and allegiance over to another. The straight arm salute held out at an angle forwards is symbolic of giving over your whole self including your body as a sacrifice. The hand held chest height palm facing out is to salute one who represents deity. Both arms held bent and chest height palms facing outward is to worship in terms of labor. Both arms or one arm held straight upwards is a sign of emotional codependency or worship without thinking, and also one of unified protest or an agreement. They are all basically signs of submission - resigning the equality of man. Edited January 6, 2015 by Starhunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 6, 2015 #6 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I thought it was because running up and giving them a cuddle was unseemly for gentlemen. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblykiss Posted January 6, 2015 #7 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) HAMLET Then saw you not his face? HORATIO Oh yes, my lord. He wore his beaver up. http://nfs.sparknote...et/page_34.html I never trust a man whose beaver is down. Edited January 6, 2015 by bubblykiss 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter shanks Posted August 27, 2019 #8 Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 1/6/2015 at 4:33 PM, quiXilver said: It's part of the behavior modification that reinforces the chain of command, reminding one of the their lack of worth and the unimportance of your individual thoughts and reminds one, that when told to... one should run toward a machine gun nest filled with strangers yomu've never met and attempt to kill them. or that's what it means to me anyway... :S Your statement has language that some may feel insulted for numerous unknown reasons, as for me, it was somewhat disappointing that an American citizen would dream up a group of words to form a demeaning statement on an activity every arm forces veteran believes the salute to the leadership is a sign of respect, honor, and the will to protect and defend the United States Constitution, which grants you the right to make a statement of your desire. I am sure You want the goodness of everything associated with your daily life activities, such as a good home, job, vehicle, good pay, wife ,children, and the best of many others things. So be creative in your thoughts, think positive, that's is the American way. We are the most amazing people on Earth, due to the Framers ideas and intentions of a nation ruled and govern by the people. All inventions, creations, and advancements by Americans would never have been possible if there were more negativity than positive productive ideas, we would still waiting on flight technology. Positive common sense thoughts are pleasing to your heart and soul. It brings joy and happiness to your life. By the way that that lack of worth and unimportant person you commented on, at one time was me, as learn and was promoted to a senior Non-commission officer, I trained and taught my subordinates to live and enjoy their lives in honor. Try it, I am sure you will enjoy the goodness of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter shanks Posted August 27, 2019 #9 Share Posted August 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Peter shanks said: Your statement has language that some may feel insulted for numerous unknown reasons, as for me, it was somewhat disappointing that an American citizen would dream up a group of words to form a demeaning statement on an activity every arm forces veteran believes the salute to the leadership is a sign of respect, honor, and the will to protect and defend the United States Constitution, which grants you the right to make a statement of your desire. I am sure You want the goodness of everything associated with your daily life activities, such as a good home, job, vehicle, good pay, wife ,children, and the best of many others things. So be creative in your thoughts, think positive, that's is the American way. We are the most amazing people on Earth, due to the Framers ideas and intentions of a nation ruled and govern by the people. All inventions, creations, and advancements by Americans would never have been possible if there were more negativity than positive productive ideas, we would still waiting on flight technology. Positive common sense thoughts are pleasing to your heart and soul. It brings joy and happiness to your life. By the way that that lack of worth and unimportant person you commented on, at one time was me, as learn and was promoted to a senior Non-commission officer, I trained and taught my subordinates to live and enjoy their lives in honor. Try it, I am sure you will enjoy the goodness of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #10 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter shanks said: Your statement has language that some may feel insulted for numerous unknown reasons, as for me, it was somewhat disappointing that an American citizen would dream up a group of words to form a demeaning statement on an activity every arm forces veteran believes the salute to the leadership is a sign of respect, honor, and the will to protect and defend the United States Constitution, which grants you the right to make a statement of your desire. I am sure You want the goodness of everything associated with your daily life activities, such as a good home, job, vehicle, good pay, wife ,children, and the best of many others things. So be creative in your thoughts, think positive, that's is the American way. We are the most amazing people on Earth, due to the Framers ideas and intentions of a nation ruled and govern by the people. All inventions, creations, and advancements by Americans would never have been possible if there were more negativity than positive productive ideas, we would still waiting on flight technology. Positive common sense thoughts are pleasing to your heart and soul. It brings joy and happiness to your life. By the way that that lack of worth and unimportant person you commented on, at one time was me, as learn and was promoted to a senior Non-commission officer, I trained and taught my subordinates to live and enjoy their lives in honor. Try it, I am sure you will enjoy the goodness of it. I am a retired US Army E-8, I think your comments are lacking because your far too kind. However, I totally agree that the individuals comments were insulting. It's a shame that this behaviour is common place today, and that the people we have protected think so little of the country we love. I suppose you have to respect yourself before you can respect anything else. Respectfully Edited August 27, 2019 by Manwon Lender 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #11 Share Posted August 27, 2019 On 1/7/2015 at 6:12 AM, DieChecker said: I thought it was a left over ceremonial action that was intended to raise the hand to the level of the face to show that no weapon is being held. Similar to shaking hands, but at a distance. That may be correct also, I heard that once myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted August 27, 2019 #12 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: I am a retired US Army E-8, think your comments are lacking because your to kind. However, I totally agree that the individuals comments were insulting. It's a shame that this behaviour is common place today, and that the people we have protected think so little of the country we love. I suppose you have to respect yourself before you can respect anything else. Respectfully Are you arguing that quixilver is wrong? His comments were only insulting because he didnt use flowery verbiage to describe the process. How is that wrong? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #13 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Are you arguing that quixilver is wrong? His comments were only insulting because he didnt use flowery verbiage to describe the process. How is that wrong? If insulting means wrong Yep that's my take. While he is entitled to his opinion I am certainly entitled to my own. Flowery verbiage has nothing to do with it, it is the verbiage that was used to describe a tradition in our Armed Forces in a negative manner, if your good with that, thats fine by me. Edited August 27, 2019 by Manwon Lender 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted August 27, 2019 #14 Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: If insulting means wrong Yep that's my take. While he is entitled to his opinion I am certainly entitled to my own. Flowery verbiage has nothing to do with it, it is the verbiage that was used to describe a tradition in our Armed Forces in a negative manner, if your good with that, thats fine by me. Yeah man im good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #15 Share Posted August 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Yeah man im good with that. In addition his comments were inaccurate, our soldiers don't jump up and charge machine gun positions. That **** is what you see on TV, our soldiers are far to important. Now a days we would just call in an Airstrike, or Artillery and leave a big hole in the ground where that position or building used to be. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted August 27, 2019 #16 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I believe it originated from the habit of removing ones hat when approaching a superior officer ? Over time, the removal of the hat became a mere raising of the hand and touching of the hat, which then became the salute as we know it now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted August 27, 2019 #17 Share Posted August 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: In addition his comments were inaccurate, our soldiers don't jump up and charge machine gun positions. That **** is what you see on TV, our soldiers are far to important. Now a days we would just call in an Airstrike, or Artillery and leave a big hole in the ground where that position or building used to be. Now see that is an argument I can respect and I think was more of what I was expecting when I asked if you were saying he was wrong. The politically correct "dont say negative things about the military" thing just annoys me. I would still argue that his overall point was accurate. Its part of the process of instilling and reinforcing an immediate and reflexive obedience to orders. I do respect your right to see it differently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #18 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Now see that is an argument I can respect and I think was more of what I was expecting when I asked if you were saying he was wrong. The politically correct "dont say negative things about the military" thing just annoys me. I would still argue that his overall point was accurate. Its part of the process of instilling and reinforcing an immediate and reflexive obedience to orders. I do respect your right to see it differently. No it doesn't instill or reinforce an immediate obedience to orders. When a soldier salutes they are not saluting the person wearing the rank, they are saluting the rank itself. In ceremonies soldiers also salute the Nations Colors when they pass by them, even our Veterans do this. Soldiers also salute their fallen comrades when they are layer to rest regardless of rank. It's not blind obedience to anything it's a way to show respect for our Nation and for our Nations fallen. His comments make our soldiers appear to be nothing but robots that follow blindly along a directed path. Which is far from the truth, they are living breathing individuals who are part of a team that is closer that most civilians could ever understand. Edited August 27, 2019 by Manwon Lender 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted August 27, 2019 #19 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Now see that is an argument I can respect and I think was more of what I was expecting when I asked if you were saying he was wrong. The politically correct "dont say negative things about the military" thing just annoys me. I would still argue that his overall point was accurate. Its part of the process of instilling and reinforcing an immediate and reflexive obedience to orders. I do respect your right to see it differently. I think your point would have been correct up to about 40-50 years ago, @Farmer77. Possibly even more recently. In the USA, they tend to rely on technology to overcome things like machine guns. In the UK, and in slightly earlier days, things where different, and the lives of soldiers was regarded as being somewhat less important than today. I would certainly agree with your statement that soldiers are trained to obey without hesitation, including storming a hypothetical machine gun. A sensible officer or NCO would not issue such an order, however. If artillery and/or air support wasn't available, then they would use mortars. Or failing that, grenades. Or they would try and flank the machine gun. Notwithstanding, your original point about being trained to obey orders is - in my opinion - correct. Edited August 27, 2019 by RoofGardener 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted August 27, 2019 #20 Share Posted August 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: I think your point would have been correct up to about 40-50 years ago, @Farmer77. Possibly even more recently. In the USA, they tend to rely on technology to overcome things like machine guns. In the UK, and in slightly earlier days, things where different, and the lives of soldiers was regarded as being somewhat less important than today. I would certainly agree with your statement that soldiers are trained to obey without hesitation, including storming a hypothetical machine gun. A sensible officer or NCO would not issue such an order, however. If artillery and/or air support wasn't available, then they would use mortars. Or failing that, grenades. Or they would try and flank the machine gun. Notwithstanding, your original point about being trained to obey orders is - in my opinion - correct. Your correct a good NCO or Officer would not issue such an order. There is a big difference between blind obedience and following orders. All soldiers are trained to follow orders, the same is expected in the civilian world if you want to keep what ever job someone may have. Without following orders there would be nothing but chaos, there has to be leadership or control in both civilian and military organizations simply to achieve the goals that are set.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted August 27, 2019 #21 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Previously, this scream was a weapon that killed and hit the enemy, since the word had the power to influence creatures, and later it turned into a greeting message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted August 27, 2019 #22 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Wikipedia on Salutes It is all about a show of respect. Yes, you have to salute some officers you don't respect, and then you are saluting the rank, not the man. On the other hand, it is also the case that combatants would also salute their enemies in certain circumstances, as a show of respect. As to why the military still follows this tradition? Well, that is what traditions are all about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted August 27, 2019 #23 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 hours ago, RoofGardener said: I believe it originated from the habit of removing ones hat when approaching a superior officer ? Over time, the removal of the hat became a mere raising of the hand and touching of the hat, which then became the salute as we know it now ? Or perhaps a helmet? Which it would be a danger to remove? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted August 27, 2019 #24 Share Posted August 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Manwon Lender said: I am a retired US Army E-8, I think your comments are lacking because your far too kind. However, I totally agree that the individuals comments were insulting. It's a shame that this behaviour is common place today, and that the people we have protected think so little of the country we love. I suppose you have to respect yourself before you can respect anything else. Respectfully I was in the U.S. Army and I am proud that I served, but I did see that attitude among some officers that it was more important that we salute them and pretend like they were above us and we were their personal servants. It is a failing in their training in my opinion, but some people you can't change. I also served with officers who felt affinity towards the enlisted and were very kind, reasonable people. They had good training and good minds. I can see the attitude demonstrated by @quiXilver to be either ignorance or scarred from bad experiences. I witnessed some crazy stuff perpetrated by officers and enlisted when I was in the army (we were supposedly a peace time army, though we were already in Afghanistan and places in Africa that no one is supposed to know about). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted August 27, 2019 #25 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I've always been told that it comes with the uniform, the alternative being "insurbordinate" ... ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now