1394 replies to this topic

[RavenEyes19]

Babe Ruth, on 21 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

For me, it's how that kid got 2+ rounds into every body, as the coroner stated.  He must have been real good with the gun, 2+ rounds in each of those small bodies.

How is this odd? A lot of kids and even adults don't know how to react in high stress situations. They don't run away...they hide, panic and freeze up. He probably had a lot of them cornered. One bullet is all it takes for someone so small and fragile to go down. Being the lunatic that he was, he probably kept on firing after they were already unconcious or deceased.

[ouija ouija]

Likely Guy, on 21 January 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

About Libor? I see it on page 21, post #315.

Edit: Oops, I originally typed page '20' as well.

The link doesn't work. I googled some others. Honestly, you really wouldn't know who to believe! There might well not be a LIBOR hearing scheduled but that doesn't mean the two shooters' fathers haven't been 'interviewed' about company misdemeanours. As I say, I really don't know what to believe about this particular point.

[pallidin]

ouija ouija, on 21 January 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

The link doesn't work. I googled some others. Honestly, you really wouldn't know who to believe! There might well not be a LIBOR hearing scheduled but that doesn't mean the two shooters' fathers haven't been 'interviewed' about company misdemeanours. As I say, I really don't know what to believe about this particular point.

Perhaps I can help.
Read or listen to the OFFICIAL accounts from the State Police and chief medical examiner for that state. THOSE are the facts.

Previous posts on this thread has such info/links.

The rest, well, just ignore as media or conspiracy theorists rubish.

[Dredimus]

ouija ouija, on 21 January 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

The link doesn't work. I googled some others. Honestly, you really wouldn't know who to believe! There might well not be a LIBOR hearing scheduled but that doesn't mean the two shooters' fathers haven't been 'interviewed' about company misdemeanours. As I say, I really don't know what to believe about this particular point.

LIBOR isnt a company... and the two fathers work for different companies doing different things... The aurora shooters dad worked for FICO I do beleive and the Sandy Hook shooters dad works for GE if im not mistaken.

[Babe Ruth]

RavenEyes19, on 21 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

How is this odd? A lot of kids and even adults don't know how to react in high stress situations. They don't run away...they hide, panic and freeze up. He probably had a lot of them cornered. One bullet is all it takes for someone so small and fragile to go down. Being the lunatic that he was, he probably kept on firing after they were already unconcious or deceased.

I understand what you're saying, but there is that "probably" in there, and we both know what that means--you're guessing.

That said, I wonder how much firearms experience you have?  How much experience firing an AR-15 in close quarters?

Small targets, and getting 2+ rounds into each body sounds suspicious to me.  I'm no expert, but I've fired weapons like that many times, but never in a classroom.

Color me suspicious, considering it appears he had no formal training with the weapon.  Also, a poor choice of weapons.  He would have had much better luck in close quarters with a shotgun.  Or the pistols.  And no wounded--all KIA.  Seems strange, that's all.

[Babe Ruth]

Dredimus, on 22 January 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

LIBOR isnt a company... and the two fathers work for different companies doing different things... The aurora shooters dad worked for FICO I do beleive and the Sandy Hook shooters dad works for GE if im not mistaken.

Yes, according to what I've read, both fathers were in the financial ends of the companies they worked for.  Lanza did work for GE, as some sort of financial operations officer.  For that reason the LIBOR connection as a possibility is plausible.  It may be untrue, but it is plausible.

[Dredimus]

Babe Ruth, on 22 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I understand what you're saying, but there is that "probably" in there, and we both know what that means--you're guessing.

That said, I wonder how much firearms experience you have?  How much experience firing an AR-15 in close quarters?

Small targets, and getting 2+ rounds into each body sounds suspicious to me.  I'm no expert, but I've fired weapons like that many times, but never in a classroom.

Color me suspicious, considering it appears he had no formal training with the weapon.  Also, a poor choice of weapons.  He would have had much better luck in close quarters with a shotgun.  Or the pistols.  And no wounded--all KIA.  Seems strange, that's all.

This is a point and shoot situation... If my information is correct, most if not all of the students were in classrooms. So you have this guy with a semi-automatic weapon standing in a room that is probably no more than 25x25ft. With a weapon of that size and speed and a room that small with non moving targets... its not as difficult as you would think. Also remember that he did have a bit of experience with these weapons. Its not like he took them out and started fumbling around with them.

In my opinion, I think there is more to what was going on than has been said. But I dont think its a government setup. Most people that know my post know that I have worked for the government and I have been in everything from Weapons Programs, Intel, Counter Intel, Counter Torrorism and Criminal Investigations. My experience tells me that his actions say that there was a personal anger with some one in that building. This attack was far to personal and anger fueled.With the ammo type he used and the size of the victims i shows a type of personal rage... in my opinion of course.

[Hasina]

pallidin, on 22 January 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Perhaps I can help.
Read or listen to the OFFICIAL accounts from the State Police and chief medical examiner for that state. THOSE are the facts.

Previous posts on this thread has such info/links.

The rest, well, just ignore as media or conspiracy theorists rubish.

Read an OFFICAL document?! Those are filled with GUMENT LIES! -sarcasm-

[Capt Amerika]

Liquid Gardens, on 21 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Which you say from the comfort of not just having your child murdered I presume?  I'm not sure that you do really understand that 'people grieve differently', and I know that I wouldn't want my partly or largely emotional responses to be stripped entirely from their context and graded according to someone else's opinion that doesn't seem to truly allow or acknowledge that context.  I have difficulty not looking at this criticism as "no, you shouldn't be making a facebook donation page, what you should instead be doing is sobbing inconsolably, waiting very anxiously for the call so you can go claim your child's body, etc, because I know better".  

Not trying to pick on you specifically Capt, you aren't the first to essentially assert "I shall define what are legitimate expressions of grief', but I really don't think it's a particularly good argument.

Let me be a little more scientific then.
"Is there anyone on here that would take the time to build a face book donation page while waiting to see the body of your young just murdered child"?
Anyone?

I never tried to define expressions of grief.  Some laugh, some cry sometimes the brain sends emotions on a whirlwind pattern of craziness.
Building a Facebook donation page is NOT an expression of grief.  it is not an emotion, it is an action.
One that is done with full understanding of the situation at hand and one with a predetermined outcome which in this case is "send me money"

[Dredimus]

Capt Amerika, on 22 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Let me be a little more scientific then.
"Is there anyone on here that would take the time to build a face book donation page while waiting to see the body of your young just murdered child"?
Anyone?

I never tried to define expressions of grief.  Some laugh, some cry sometimes the brain sends emotions on a whirlwind pattern of craziness.
Building a Facebook donation page is NOT an expression of grief.  it is not an emotion, it is an action.
One that is done with full understanding of the situation at hand and one with a predetermined outcome which in this case is "send me money"

Who said the parents put the page up instead of a family member or friend of the family in the late hours of the night? Especially in the case of Emilie Parker, where she was going to be burried on the other side of the continent? Maybe they had burial/life insurance on her, maybe they didnt... maybe a family member or friend wanted to help raise some funds for them during their time of mourning?

[Babe Ruth]

Dredimus, on 22 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

This is a point and shoot situation... If my information is correct, most if not all of the students were in classrooms. So you have this guy with a semi-automatic weapon standing in a room that is probably no more than 25x25ft. With a weapon of that size and speed and a room that small with non moving targets... its not as difficult as you would think. Also remember that he did have a bit of experience with these weapons. Its not like he took them out and started fumbling around with them.

In my opinion, I think there is more to what was going on than has been said. But I dont think its a government setup. Most people that know my post know that I have worked for the government and I have been in everything from Weapons Programs, Intel, Counter Intel, Counter Torrorism and Criminal Investigations. My experience tells me that his actions say that there was a personal anger with some one in that building. This attack was far to personal and anger fueled.With the ammo type he used and the size of the victims i shows a type of personal rage... in my opinion of course.

If the shooter Lanza was as good as they say he was, he would have used a shotgun and pistol, and I think anybody with much firearm experience would know that and say that.  As fine a weapon as it is, the AR-15 might be the last weapon to use inside a classroom looking for maximum casualties.

Yes, we agree that there does seem to be something 'under the surface' with this event.  Don't know what, but something seems strange.

[Capt Amerika]

Dredimus, on 22 January 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Who said the parents put the page up instead of a family member or friend of the family in the late hours of the night? Especially in the case of Emilie Parker, where she was going to be burried on the other side of the continent? Maybe they had burial/life insurance on her, maybe they didnt... maybe a family member or friend wanted to help raise some funds for them during their time of mourning?

True but all reports have been pointing to the parents as the ones who set up the page.
Not a friend or relative.
Either way, i find it to be in bad taste to have a donations page put up while the body is still warm.
My opinion only, don't crucify me over it.

[Capt Amerika]

Babe Ruth, on 22 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

If the shooter Lanza was as good as they say he was, he would have used a shotgun and pistol, and I think anybody with much firearm experience would know that and say that.  As fine a weapon as it is, the AR-15 might be the last weapon to use inside a classroom looking for maximum casualties.

Yes, we agree that there does seem to be something 'under the surface' with this event.  Don't know what, but something seems strange.

the strangest aspect of this to me is the extent in which Adam took this action.
I personally know an 18 year old with Aspergers, this kid is not that bad off yet at the age of 18, he doesn't/cant drive isn't able to socialize with others very well yet he is quite intelligent.
he requires direction on virtually every task yet once set down that path he is okay.  Adams mass shooting would have required about a dozen individual steps explained to him to carry it out had he been affected like the guy i know.  he would have had to been told to kill the mom, then told to take the guns and ammo to the car, then told to drive to the school, then told to take the guns into the school and kill the kids etc...
It just seems like an awful lot of steps and actions for a person with a disease like he suffered from.
I just don't think this kid was as mentally challenged as the media is portraying him to be.  He seems to me as just another social outcast with no regard for human life.
But i could be wrong, its just an opinion after all.

[DONTEATUS]

pallidin, on 22 January 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Perhaps I can help.
Read or listen to the OFFICIAL accounts from the State Police and chief medical examiner for that state. THOSE are the facts.

Previous posts on this thread has such info/links.

The rest, well, just ignore as media or conspiracy theorists rubish.

So true So True ! It really gripes me these CT`s ! Maybe they could spend just a few min`s actually looking at the facts and photos of those little souls !

[ouija ouija]

Liquid Gardens, on 21 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Which you say from the comfort of not just having your child murdered I presume?  I'm not sure that you do really understand that 'people grieve differently', and I know that I wouldn't want my partly or largely emotional responses to be stripped entirely from their context and graded according to someone else's opinion that doesn't seem to truly allow or acknowledge that context.  I have difficulty not looking at this criticism as "no, you shouldn't be making a facebook donation page, what you should instead be doing is sobbing inconsolably, waiting very anxiously for the call so you can go claim your child's body, etc, because I know better".  

Not trying to pick on you specifically Capt, you aren't the first to essentially assert "I shall define what are legitimate expressions of grief', but I really don't think it's a particularly good argument.

Not 'a particularly good argument'? I for one(can't speak on behalf of others in this thread), have never said that everyone should express grief in a particular way; what I have said is that I would expect most people to behave in a particular way and then there would be one or two exceptions to this. Why do I say this? Well, to begin with, think about animals expressing fear, aggression, submission etc. ....... with each species of animal this expression always has to be the same so that there is no confusion about what they are trying to convey to other members of the herd/group or an enemy. These expressions(and I include body language in this), also have to be consistent so that the younger members can learn them and not get attacked or know when to run from danger.

Back to humans: if you were asked to draw some human faces depicting different emotions, I'm willing to bet that your ideas of what expresses happiness, fear, shock, sadness etc. would be pretty much the same as everyone else's doing the same task. Why? because we have not grown that far away from our ancestors who needed to behave like the animals I have mentioned in the previous paragraph. This is why I said what I did and stand by it.

So where does that leave us in this particular argument? Can you explain to me what could possibly make President Obama think that the most appropriate response when being photographed with parents who had had their child brutally murdered just days before, is to smile? And why are the parents smiling?  To me, these are not people putting a 'brave face' on the most appalling situation that they will probably ever have to face.

I live in the UK and I have to say I have never seen this 'phenomenon' over here ...... so now I'm wondering why this is the case .......