Scots reject independence in historic vote

[docyabut2]

I `m glad its better to be united then divided

http://www.foxnews.c...ndum-837898067/

Edited September 19, 2014 by docyabut2

[acidhead]

Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism.

Blinded by some sort of faith or religion to one's self. Totally disconnected to reality.

[Space Commander Travis]

In some ways I'd be glad to see the break-up of the nation state, but I don't think the creation of new nations with their own politicians with unlimited powers was the way to go. I think I'd quite like to see the Uk split up into a system of regions with power decentralised, and London only responsible for the things that have to be decided on a national level, like national road and rail networks and defence and so on. I do hope this won't encourage the politicians in London into believing that centralised power and the overwhelming dominance of London is popular with the People, and even worse, that they, the politicians, are popular with the people.

[Space Commander Travis]

* For instance, they were talking about devolution of greater powers to Scotland and Wales. That's all very well and fine, but what about devolution for England? The politicians in London don't seem to realise how unpopular the mighty London is with many parts of England, as soon as you get out of the counties immediately surrounding it and which exist just to provide a supply of worker drones for the great monster. London will just continue to exist as a self-absorbed monstrosity that soaks up government money and attention, and which looks down its nose with patronising disdain on everywhere else outside London as "the Regions".

[Still Waters]

* For instance, they were talking about devolution of greater powers to Scotland and Wales. That's all very well and fine, but what about devolution for England?

The prime minister promised a devolution revolution across Great Britain, including votes on English issues by English MPs at Westminster, as he hailed the Scottish people's decision to remain inside the UK.

http://www.theguardi...tion-revolution

[Davros of Skaro]

Here's a qoute from William.

[shrooma]

Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism.

.

i kinda like where i come from.

Yorkshire's very green, the people are simple, freindly, and honest, and the beer flows like wine.

nothing wrong with having a little pride for your home town man.....

.

[FLOMBIE]

.

i kinda like where i come from.

Yorkshire's very green, the people are simple, freindly, and honest, and the beer flows like wine.

nothing wrong with having a little pride for your home town man.....

.

The more I got around, the more I felt it is less important where I come from, but who I am and what I do.

There is nothing wrong with the local patriotism you describe. I love my little home town and the area. It's where I come from and where I will always feel at home. But on a larger scale, Germany, everything is watered down. Too many people, who are way too diverse, and who have nothing in common with me in the slightest. I am proud of what I achieve, not of the country I was accidently born in.

Edited September 19, 2014 by FLOMBIE

[itsnotoutthere]

Damn, does this mean we have to keep all those Scottish Labour MPs. I knew there'd be a downside.

[Peter B]

Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism.

Blinded by some sort of faith or religion to one's self. Totally disconnected to reality.

Is this comment directed at those who voted Yes or those who voted No? Or at both? The way I saw it, people voting both Yes and No had a patriotic angle.

[spartan max2]

55% to 44% not as close as I thought itd be

[itsnotoutthere]

"Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism."

Or alternatively......being proud of your roots.

Edited September 19, 2014 by itsnotoutthere

[Space Commander Travis]

"Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism."

Or alternatively......being proud of your roots.

I agree with this kind of patriotism

.

i kinda like where i come from.

Yorkshire's very green, the people are simple, freindly, and honest, and the beer flows like wine.

nothing wrong with having a little pride for your home town man.....

.

The more I got around, the more I felt it is less important where I come from, but who I am and what I do.

There is nothing wrong with the local patriotism you describe. I love my little home town and the area. It's where I come from and where I will always feel at home. But on a larger scale, Germany, everything is watered down. Too many people, who are way too diverse, and who have nothing in common with me in the slightest. I am proud of what I achieve, not of the country I was accidently born in.

but the nation state is an artificial concept, isn't it, it's just an administrative area that one happens to have been born in.

[libstaK]

55% to 44% not as close as I thought itd be

I wonder how many rocked up to the polling booths convinced they were going to vote yes but then just couldn't go through with it - like a bad relationship you just can't walk away from, because when you try you discover you still do love them regardless.

[FLOMBIE]

but the nation state is an artificial concept, isn't it, it's just an administrative area that one happens to have been born in.

Well, that doesn't conflict with what I said at all. In fact, you agree to what I said.

To the "being proud of your roots" statement: I feel that this is kinda blank, as I do not even know what it means. For the British, does it mean Celtic? Anglo-Saxon, which would be German or Germanic? Some even have Roman roots.

Edited September 19, 2014 by FLOMBIE

[Duke Wellington]

* For instance, they were talking about devolution of greater powers to Scotland and Wales. That's all very well and fine, but what about devolution for England? The politicians in London don't seem to realise how unpopular the mighty London is with many parts of England, as soon as you get out of the counties immediately surrounding it and which exist just to provide a supply of worker drones for the great monster. London will just continue to exist as a self-absorbed monstrosity that soaks up government money and attention, and which looks down its nose with patronising disdain on everywhere else outside London as "the Regions".

We need a team of accountants to sit down and determine the benefits or losses of different levels of decentralisation. Too far and the extra bureaucracy will reduce national profits from the extra cost. Too little and the revenues might not be as high as they could be.

It might turn out that decentralising government to each county or city region (not just doing it to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) is best. After all a deprived city can then lower its taxes or interest rates to promote growth. Who says that whats best for London is whats best for Liverpool or Glasgow?

Government at national level should just be about a common foreign policy, setting trade laws across the federation, cross-federation infrastructure projects, setting the military budget and deciding when to go to war. Everything else can be decentralised.

We should see ourselves as a realm of federal states unifed together for our common interest but with a large amount of decentralised powers so that each can perform at its best.

Edited September 19, 2014 by RabidMongoose

[Shayde]

And it starts, the blaming anyone for the defeat.

Outside the Dynamic Earth (an attraction in Edinburgh I can recommend, by the way) dejected supporters of the Yes campaign were asked on how they felt on the defeat.

The following words and statements were used:

Gutted, annoyed, the old lost it for the young, how it's all the media's fault, how non-Scots voted badly, how Scots were for the union did so because they are cowards...

Told you. Some folk just can't get it without understanding that oddly enough, not everyone votes the same way.

[Duke Wellington]

And it starts, the blaming anyone for the defeat.

Outside the Dynamic Earth (an attraction in Edinburgh I can recommend, by the way) dejected supporters of the Yes campaign were asked on how they felt on the defeat.

The following words and statements were used:

Gutted, annoyed, the old lost it for the young, how it's all the media's fault, how non-Scots voted badly, how Scots were for the union did so because they are cowards...

Told you. Some folk just can't get it without understanding that oddly enough, not everyone votes the same way.

When they go get drunk tonight and tomorrow night is when the problems will begin. I hope the Police are ready as theres the potential for widespread civil disorder from those staunch anti-uk nationalists. It might not happen, it might, it might turn into something quite nasty.

[Frank Merton]

Patriotism.. the highest form of Collectivism.

Blinded by some sort of faith or religion to one's self. Totally disconnected to reality.

Patriotism as I understand the word is a high virtue, combining love of one's homeland and willingness to make sacrifices for it. Don't confuse this with nationalism, the view that one's culture and nation are superior to others, nor with jingoism, the hatred of other nations.

[FLOMBIE]

Patriotism as I understand the word is a high virtue, combining love of one's homeland and willingness to make sacrifices for it. Don't confuse this with nationalism, the view that one's culture and nation are superior to others, nor with jingoism, the hatred of other nations.

There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and most people do not know where to draw it.

Why would I "love" my country? Does it love me in return? How far should those sacrifices go?

[Duke Wellington]

Patriotism as I understand the word is a high virtue, combining love of one's homeland and willingness to make sacrifices for it. Don't confuse this with nationalism, the view that one's culture and nation are superior to others, nor with jingoism, the hatred of other nations.

Patriotism is showing support for ones nation and people.

Nationalism is the love of ones nation and people.

Jingoism is talking up your nation and people as being great or extraordinary.

You're confusing them with xenophobia, racism and fascism which are seperate things.

During the London Olympics patriotism, nationalism and jingoism were all present yet we weren't xenophobic, racist or fascist. See the difference?

Edited September 19, 2014 by RabidMongoose

[itsnotoutthere]

There is a fine line between patriotism and nationalism, and most people do not know where to draw it.

Why would I "love" my country? Does it love me in return? How far should those sacrifices go?

Then why would anyone support their national team in the world cup, or the Olympics? It's all about national pride

oops, just read the comment above..

Edited September 19, 2014 by itsnotoutthere

[Frank Merton]

I'm glad for Scotland that it decided to stay in the Union, although the world would have not changed all that much if things had gone the other way.

Momentous things of this sort should be subject to super-majority whenever one is to change the status quo.

It seems that there was an age differential in the vote -- the young tending to vote yes and the old, no. This is not surprising -- as you get older you become more cautious -- I think because you have had more experience in life and realize better the perils of change. At any rate I suspect the radical young people who think they just have to wait until the present older generations die off will find that as they age they develop a different view.

[Duke Wellington]

I'm glad for Scotland that it decided to stay in the Union, although the world would have not changed all that much if things had gone the other way.

Momentous things of this sort should be subject to super-majority whenever one is to change the status quo.

It seems that there was an age differential in the vote -- the young tending to vote yes and the old, no. This is not surprising -- as you get older you become more cautious -- I think because you have had more experience in life and realize better the perils of change. At any rate I suspect the radical young people who think they just have to wait until the present older generations die off will find that as they age they develop a different view.

Younger people have less life experience so are easier to manipulate.

If the UK goes federal, and I hope it does, we should look at reunification with the US and the Commonwealth. Afterall if the EU can exist as a collection of Republics and Monarchys we can sort something out which keeps each country/state in the UK, US and Commonwealth happy.

If each country/state has decentralised Government, if each can decide if it wants the Queen as its safeguard or not, then the cause of all past splits has been removed.

Edited September 19, 2014 by RabidMongoose

[FLOMBIE]

Then why would anyone support their national team in the world cup, or the Olympics? It's all about national pride

oops, just read the comment above..

That is a good question - why should we? Just because they were born in the same country? Sometimes not even that: There are sportsmen that change their nationality like their underwear. Do you think they feel honest "national pride"?

I am from the north of Germany. When I travel down south, Bavaria for instance, it feels like being in a different country. Yet I should feel connected to them, because it is Germany at the moment? What if it's not Germany anymore in 20 years, but Austrian?

Nations are artificial constructs that want to make us believe we would be "the same people". We are not. I feel a local "pride" at best, but probably not even that. Once again: I am proud of what I do, not what I cannot control. I never chose to be German. I like being German, but love? No.

Edit: What are the "roots" you are proud of, by the way?

Edited September 19, 2014 by FLOMBIE