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Ice Melt Could Mean More Extreme Winters


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16 replies to this topic

#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

http://www.huffingto..._n_1878833.html

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#2    questionmark

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:31 AM

Ice melt WILL mean more extreme weather as the corrective will be gone. At least in the northern hemisphere.

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#3    Ashotep

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

I have to agree the ice melt will change weather patterns and not for the good.


#4    The Silver Thong

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:45 PM

in my 40 years on this planet living in the region and can tell you weather is changing. Hotter summers warmer winters. We use to get very little snow because it was so cold in the winter -35C now we have -10 and tons of snow. As a kid I refused to go out on halloween because it wa so cold now it's usually pretty nice.

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#5    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:19 AM

Whereas on the west coast here, our summers are longer but cooler, and winters wetter/snowier and colder. So i ain't complaining. I love this type of weather o.O About the only downside is that I now need more firewood and my grapes aren't doing as well with these cooler summers :/


#6    Leah G.

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:57 PM

I do have to wonder when I see articles like this....

http://www.forbes.co...another-record/


#7    Little Fish

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:12 PM

View PostHatch, on 19 September 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

I do have to wonder when I see articles like this....

http://www.forbes.co...another-record/
and recently detailed arctic sea ice maps from the early century have been discovered which contradict the "offical" record showing that arctic sea ice has not been stable throughout the last 100 years.


#8    Br Cornelius

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostLittle Fish, on 19 September 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

and recently detailed arctic sea ice maps from the early century have been discovered which contradict the "offical" record showing that arctic sea ice has not been stable throughout the last 100 years.
Can you actually show us evidence for when in the last 100yrs the Northern Sea passage was last open ??

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#9    Br Cornelius

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:34 AM

View PostHatch, on 19 September 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

I do have to wonder when I see articles like this....

http://www.forbes.co...another-record/
The reality of this has been discussed before - antarctic sea ice extent has been growing at 1% per decade and the actual ice mass has been in decline. Compare this to a 50% decline in arctic ice over the last century and a rate of 10% decline per decade. The article is dishonestly selective about the information it is using, and highly politically motivated.

Br Cornelius

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#10    Little Fish

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:50 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 20 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

The reality of this has been discussed before - antarctic sea ice extent has been growing at 1% per decade and the actual ice mass has been in decline. Compare this to a 50% decline in arctic ice over the last century and a rate of 10% decline per decade. The article is dishonestly selective about the information it is using, and highly politically motivated.

Br Cornelius
nasa are now reporting there was a hurricane over the arctic for several days which broke up a lot of arctic ice and shifted it into warmer water.


#11    Little Fish

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 20 September 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Can you actually show us evidence for when in the last 100yrs the Northern Sea passage was last open ??

Br Cornelius
I can show you maps which prove the stability of the arctic sea ice is much less than officially recognized.


#12    Doug1o29

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 19 September 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

and recently detailed arctic sea ice maps from the early century have been discovered which contradict the "offical" record showing that arctic sea ice has not been stable throughout the last 100 years.
This is correct, though you're forgetting to mention that the long-term curve for ARCTIC sea ice is down.  What those maps show are the normal variations in ice extent.  Summer ice has been shrinking in area since about 1950 and winter sea ice since about 1970.  There is more to the story, of course:  the ice has also been melting from below so that now the ice thickness is about 25% of what it was in 1970.  The interaction between extent and thickness will cause an accelleration of melting as climate change continues, even if nothing much happens in the way of temperature.

It is ice extent that determines the intensity of North American weather, so I expect to see more violent storms and heavy early snowfalls.
Doug

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#13    Little Fish

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:48 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 25 September 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

It is ice extent that determines the intensity of North American weather, so I expect to see more violent storms and heavy early snowfalls.
storm intensity is governed by temperature differentials between pole and tropic. if the arctic wams more than the tropics you are going to get less intensity of storms since the temp differential would narrow.


#14    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:05 PM

Storms come in different types - and the main increasing trend is in increasing precipitation intensity and greater flash flooding. This is a direct consequence of the increased moisture content of a warmer atmosphere generated over the oceans. There seems to be slight evidence for increasing wind storm frequency, but when they come they are increasing in intensity due to the overall increase in system energy.

In Northern Europe the jet stream has been increasingly erratic due to the Arctic ice melt and since it steers storm systems coming off the Atlantic, those storms are seen out of their normal corridor - bringing extreme rain events to the Mediterranean basin which would typically have travelled across the extreme north of Europe.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 25 September 2012 - 05:15 PM.

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#15    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 September 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

nasa are now reporting there was a hurricane over the arctic for several days which broke up a lot of arctic ice and shifted it into warmer water.
It could not have done this without the extreme warming the arctic has experienced over the last half century. Most of the energy of Global Warming is accumulating in the Arctic and this is making such hurricane increasingly likely. It is simply one more event in a trend of extreme ice melts which has developed - just look at the trend.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson




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