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Who Killed Princess Diana?


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#61    Rafterman

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:34 PM

View Postbee, on 18 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

what speed were they travelling at? No one seems to know for sure...

http://en.wikipedia....les#pagetreport





And if I remember right the camera in the tunnel was said to be not working at the time of the crash.... :unsure2:

So no visual confirmation of anything including the speed of the car.


.

How fast were they traveling?  Well, fast enough to do this:

Attached File  diana_car.jpg   30.02K   17 downloads

I'm no crash expert, but that's not the result of a 10 mph fender bender.

But fine, I'll buy your counter.  Let's say they were sitting completely still with the engine off in that tunnel.  Explain how a driver can "quickly turn round and release the seat belts of the other three".  Try it.

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#62    skookum

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

Didn't help the brakes were defective either, a common problem at the time with that model.

The regular driver of that car had returned it earlier to the hotel complaining the brakes were not good, the warning light was on and the handling on the car was iffy.

The white Fiat was a red herring.  They were pretty sure they traced the exact one which belonged to a freelance reporter.  He said he had a small accident in the tunnel earlier.

That guy committed suicide a few years later, there were stories at the time he had been locked in the car from the outside and a hose put in the car.  Apparently he couldn't have got out, which is of course rubbish as I have never been in a car that can be locked from the outside which you couldn't have got out of from the inside.  Some reports the keys were left in the outside of the door, I would argue how did the engine run without the keys in the ignition.

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#63    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

View Postskookum, on 19 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Didn't help the brakes were defective either, a common problem at the time with that model.

The regular driver of that car had returned it earlier to the hotel complaining the brakes were not good, the warning light was on and the handling on the car was iffy.

The white Fiat was a red herring.  They were pretty sure they traced the exact one which belonged to a freelance reporter.  He said he had a small accident in the tunnel earlier.

That guy committed suicide a few years later, there were stories at the time he had been locked in the car from the outside and a hose put in the car.  Apparently he couldn't have got out, which is of course rubbish as I have never been in a car that can be locked from the outside which you couldn't have got out of from the inside.  Some reports the keys were left in the outside of the door, I would argue how did the engine run without the keys in the ignition.
It was actually more dramatic than that...

Quote

James Andanson died in May 2000. The official verdict was suicide. His body was found in a black, burnt-out BMW in a forest in the south of France, the doors were locked - with no sign of the car keys. Andanson's death was attributed to problems in his private life and evidence was uncovered from his friends and associates that he had talked of suicide long before the death of Diana and he had even mentioned details of the social circumstances in which he would take his life and the method by which he would do it. Their testimony was consistent with the way Andanson actually took his life.
The Paget report states that when the car was found, Andanson's body was in the driver's seat of the car, his head was detached and lay between the front seats. There was also a hole in his left temple. The French pathologist concluded this was caused by the intense heat of the fire rather than, for example, a bullet wound.[31]
Operation Paget found no evidence Andanson was known to any security service and, contrary to Fayed's claims, his death was thoroughly investigated by French police. (Although the whereabouts of the car keys has never been explained). A break-in at his former workplace in June 2000 alleged to have been carried out by security services was found to be unconnected to his death as no items related to him were stolen. The break-in was investigated by French police who to this day have not found the criminals responsible.
http://en.wikipedia....ossible_suicide

:hmm:

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#64    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostThe world needs you, on 19 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

What a peculiar view to claim the Royals desire easy outs even if just one.

I beg your pardon, could you extrapolate. I do not understand why one would not accept and easy solution if it fell into your lap.

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#65    Zaphod222

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostRafterman, on 19 June 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

How fast were they traveling?  Well, fast enough to do this:

Attachment diana_car.jpg

I'm no crash expert, but that's not the result of a 10 mph fender bender.

LOL, I dare say.

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#66    Jessica Christ

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:57 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 20 June 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I beg your pardon, could you extrapolate. I do not understand why one would not accept and easy solution if it fell into your lap.

As providential as that may seem it too is as speculative as assuming the conspiracy of dispatching one to their death over what others imagine was a disgrace.

It is doubtful they were grateful or resentful because public imagination wishes to assign either narrative onto them. It is likely each had their own mixed sentiment.

Private affairs do not always work out and each party involved has to then make do the best they can with what they have. The Royals do not seem to act based on what others think, their protocols whether observed or broken are not based on the opinion of outsiders, but are longstanding traditions that allow cohesion within their own circle and partially framed by the past task of ruling a nation. Now that is only a partial responsibility we can see some flexibility.


#67    psyche101

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:16 AM

View PostThe world needs you, on 20 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

As providential as that may seem it too is as speculative as assuming the conspiracy of dispatching one to their death over what others imagine was a disgrace.

It is doubtful they were grateful or resentful because public imagination wishes to assign either narrative onto them. It is likely each had their own mixed sentiment.

Private affairs do not always work out and each party involved has to then make do the best they can with what they have. The Royals do not seem to act based on what others think, their protocols whether observed or broken are not based on the opinion of outsiders, but are longstanding traditions that allow cohesion within their own circle and partially framed by the past task of ruling a nation. Now that is only a partial responsibility we can see some flexibility.

I am afraid I remain perplexed, I agree they would be neither grateful nor resentful because nothing had actually happened, the only emotion I suspect they might have had at the time was grief.
Is this not in line with that which I proposed? Marriage to Dodi would remove Diana as a royal, as well as from Charles sight altogether, and any upcoming function the royals are expected to attend. If they are not concerned with the opinions of others (and I have to say that the Queens reluctance to hand the crown over to Charles doers not seem to indicate that view) then this would be the perfect situation would it not? She would be removed from this very circle and effectively ousted from the family, to eventually fade away into the background. Everyone wins. I never said the Royals desired an easy way out, one forced itself upon them. I doubt even a royal would look a gifthorse in the mouth?

Edited by psyche101, 20 June 2013 - 07:17 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#68    Jessica Christ

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:31 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 20 June 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

I am afraid I remain perplexed, I agree they would be neither grateful nor resentful because nothing had actually happened, the only emotion I suspect they might have had at the time was grief.
Is this not in line with that which I proposed? Marriage to Dodi would remove Diana as a royal, as well as from Charles sight altogether, and any upcoming function the royals are expected to attend. If they are not concerned with the opinions of others (and I have to say that the Queens reluctance to hand the crown over to Charles doers not seem to indicate that view) then this would be the perfect situation would it not? She would be removed from this very circle and effectively ousted from the family, to eventually fade away into the background. Everyone wins. I never said the Royals desired an easy way out, one forced itself upon them. I doubt even a royal would look a gifthorse in the mouth?

It seems really clear that there were and are no clean lines or breaks. The mother of a future king could never be totally removed from the circle or ousted from the family much less fade away whether in life, death, or the space existing between the two. Diana will be forever remembered and whether she is honored by many or desired to be forgotten by a few not does not depend on public ceremony or memorial.

Consider that in times past the desire to forget one could have materialized in public execution as ceremony. That of course might be why many pursue the conspiracy theory because our collective memory remembers that. In their minds the events are an execution.

It does seem plausible that many should be grateful that each continued to pursue love in their own way. Since your view differs with the conspiracy theory but could include that possibility, that each continued to pursue love in their own way, and as the conspiracy theory can also include that view, I cannot totally agree or disagree with either in the end but only consign them to the public imagination because that is where those views originated from and that is who owns them: they are public domain.

The Royals might still feel otherwise than how we imagine them to, expect them to, or want them to feel.

Edited by The world needs you, 20 June 2013 - 07:40 AM.


#69    skookum

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:42 AM

I just can't help thinking accident, however there are so weird factors.  The big flash in the tunnel some attributed to a military stun gun, that suicide which certainly was more dramatic than I have been told in the past and the high levels of C02 (I think) found in the drivers body.

However you can't ignore the known factors.  

High Speed,
Known braking issue,
Iffy car handling,
Driver had been drinking (although not blind drunk)
No seatbelts
Some kind of pursuit.

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#70    bee

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:37 AM

View PostRafterman, on 19 June 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

How fast were they traveling?  Well, fast enough to do this:

Attachment diana_car.jpg

I'm no crash expert, but that's not the result of a 10 mph fender bender.

But fine, I'll buy your counter.  Let's say they were sitting completely still with the engine off in that tunnel.  Explain how a driver can "quickly turn round and release the seat belts of the other three".  Try it.


He was in the passenger seat.... and it's not hard to imagine how it was possible to do.

He could have got them panicked by pointing out of the back window...shouting about something..

He might even have shouted that there was someone with a gun in pursuit (something like that)...leaned right through

to the back and released the seatbelts, ordering them to get  down. He was the bodyguard after all.

Resumed his seat..clicked on his seatbelt....clicked the drivers off....then yanked the steering wheel to crash the car.

Means, motive and opportunity....the bodyguard had all three. And was the only one that could ensure 100% that...

The other three weren't wearing seatbelts...and that the car crashed.


To be honest....none of it really matters now...and the above is, of course, pure speculation.


If it was just an accident...so be it...but if it wasn't I'm sure Diana would want people to try and get to the bottom of it.


#71    Zaphod222

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:01 AM

View Postbee, on 20 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

He was in the passenger seat.... and it's not hard to imagine how it was possible to do.
He could have got them panicked by pointing out of the back window...shouting about something..
He might even have shouted that there was someone with a gun in pursuit (something like that)...leaned right through
to the back and released the seatbelts, ordering them to get  down. He was the bodyguard after all.

In fact, that is extremely hard to do, unless you are second Houdini. Have you ever sat in a Benz 300SE and tried this? Ridiculous claim.

View Postbee, on 20 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Means, motive and opportunity....the bodyguard had all three. And was the only one that could ensure 100% that...

What friggin motive?? And with no guarantee to survive himself to boot.

I want something of what you have been smoking...

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#72    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:19 AM

View Postbee, on 20 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

He was in the passenger seat.... and it's not hard to imagine how it was possible to do.

He could have got them panicked by pointing out of the back window...shouting about something..

He might even have shouted that there was someone with a gun in pursuit (something like that)...leaned right through

to the back and released the seatbelts, ordering them to get  down. He was the bodyguard after all.

Resumed his seat..clicked on his seatbelt....clicked the drivers off....then yanked the steering wheel to crash the car.

Means, motive and opportunity....the bodyguard had all three. And was the only one that could ensure 100% that...

The other three weren't wearing seatbelts...and that the car crashed.


To be honest....none of it really matters now...and the above is, of course, pure speculation.
I think you mean baseless accusations, like you burying bodies in your backyard.


#73    bee

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:46 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 20 June 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

In fact, that is extremely hard to do, unless you are second Houdini. Have you ever sat in a Benz 300SE and tried this? Ridiculous claim.


I'm sure someone who.....

http://en.wikipedia....nes_(bodyguard)

Quote

enlisted in the 1st Battalion of the Parachute Regiment and served one tour of duty in Northern Ireland and was awarded the General Service Medal

wouldn't have had too much trouble doing it.



Quote

What friggin motive??

money?...duty?


Quote

And with no guarantee to survive himself to boot.

if he was the only one with a seatbelt and functioning air-bag....and he was on the opposite side of the main impact, in the car?

He could probably have expected to live?

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#74    bee

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 20 June 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I think you mean baseless accusations, like you burying bodies in your backyard.

Its just one of the possibilities.....

Any detective or lawyer would consider.... means, motive and opportunity...

That's all I'm doing.

But my heart isn't in spending much time on this.....

Oh...and I don't have a backyard.... :)


.


#75    Zaphod222

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

View Postbee, on 20 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

if he was the only one with a seatbelt and functioning air-bag....and he was on the opposite side of the main impact, in the car?
He could probably have expected to live?.

He was not the only one with a seatbelt. He was the only one who fastened it.
And they all had functioning air-bags. Or do you claim 3 of them were disabled?
And the impact was pretty much in the middle. Besides, in your sort of scenario, there is no way he could possibly control where exactly the impact was.

In short: No banana, and not even much of a try.

Hope you have better success in your backyard.

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