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Tantalising Testimony


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#16    zoser

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:22 PM

More tantalising testimonies.  Don't be put off by Ronnie at the beginning.  Buzz himself makes an appearance so does Jimmy and some other high profile witnesses.






Recommended part:  5:30 it really gets interesting!

Edited by zoser, 14 June 2012 - 07:30 PM.

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#17    Hazzard

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:39 PM

So many fantastic stories, and not one shread of credible evidence.


What else is new in UFOology.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#18    psyche101

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:13 AM

View Postzoser, on 14 June 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

More tantalising testimonies.  Don't be put off by Ronnie at the beginning.  Buzz himself makes an appearance so does Jimmy and some other high profile witnesses.






Recommended part:  5:30 it really gets interesting!




Wow, that thread went downhill at a rapid rate! It started as probably the best Zoser thread to date, and now this! Crikey!

Good to see you find Reagans speech not worth discussing. That is a dead end and IMO not behaviour becoming a president. I thought he looked the fool on the world stage.

Next is Buzz Aldrin, Buzz himself refutes that specific passage as being taken out of context and he personally asked the shows producers to remove that specific segment as it does not represent his view, or the events onboard the mission. That UFO is officially the SLA panels from Apollo 11, there is a long thread here debating if the UFO was SLA panels or a piece of Mylar from the CSM. It is not an alien. Never was ever thought to be.

Aldrin told me that they chose not to discuss this on the open communications channel since they were concerned that their comments might be misinterpreted. His entire explanation about identifying the panels was cut from the broadcast interview, giving the impression that the Apollo 11 crew had seen a UFO. Aldrin told me that he was angry about the deceptive editing and asked the Science Channel to correct the intentional twisting of his remarks, but they refused. Later, Aldrin explained what happened on CNN’s Larry King Live (left, bottom) but was nearly cut off by the host before he could finish.

LINK At this link you will see the very same segment, which Buzz Aldrin himself objects to. That particular segment can only be described as a hoax by the media to increase sales. The claim that the object was unidentified is bunk. It's a bit of Apollo.

Jimmy Carter himself does not believe what he saw was a spaceship, but the UFO folks are kind enough to put those words in his mouth for him:

I had a tape recorder—because as I met with members of Lions Clubs, I would dictate their names on the tapes so I could remember them—and I dictated my observations. And when I got home, I wrote them down. So that's an accurate description of what I saw. It was a flying object that was unidentified. But I have never thought that it was from outer space.

LINK


Then you have Gordon Cooper. Where is the film? Conspiracy to the rescue? Simply put I do not believe him, and I am going to get flak for that because how dare I question an all time american hero. I am sure he had his day and I am indeed insanely jealous of his accomplishments, yet none of that influences the outright facts that he sued Columbia Pictures Industries for false use of his name in connection with aliens! On one hand he says yes they exist, but if someone says that and does not cut him in with some cash, all bets are off!

Next - Bill Clinton. He was President, had a UFO interest, had clearance, vowed to find out "if there is something to all this" and failed. He had the position, the access the interrest and came up empty handed.

After that you seems to have been impressed by Robert Hastings of all people! I find Hastings probably the least believable person in the field today. By a long shot too. He is the only person to come forward with this supposed film that cannot be confirmed? We are expected to take Hastings solely at this word on this, but if you look back here at the thread on the Echo Flight incident, we can see his is credulous and his claims are unsubstantiated. Tim Herbert wrote in his blog the way the missiles were wired, and that configuration made Hastings claims impossible to be true. He is loud, rude and IMHO very unpleasant. And he refuses particular witnesses in his investigations that might hurt his claims. His "proof" is tailor made. Hastings sees UFO's over every military installation he visits. Every time a missile goes down he points at the sky and says UFO. He was just outright rude to Nye, and threateningly said believe me. Not sure why you find such distasteful behaviour convincing. I thought his manners were rather disgusting in the interview to be honest. No gentleman at all. Just a UFO bully. Very meh that bit. Hastings actually makes Friedman look good.

Milton Torres is next, and should have been the focus of your post as opposed to Hastings. Definitely a real incident. Torres never saw the bogey, but was ordered to fire on it. Now if we think about that why would he be order to fire on it if it was unknown? It is more likely that the object was known, and also likely is that is was a Russian false image. Time Magazine did an excellent article on electronic warfare in which they extensively refer to Phil Klass and his aviation expertise. LINK

George Filer, Nuttier than a stoned fruitcake. Perhaps only Paul Hellyer is crazier. I reckon he got his story from "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Why the heck would you shoot an Alien as it steps out of a UFO????????? It makes for fine camp fire stories but is completely unsubstantiated and conspiracy nonsense that is being buoyed up by people such as Stephen Greer, who has been one to promote this one. You can believe him if you want, I see absolutely no reason to believe or trust that story, do you find anything about it convincing at all?


Lastly and not lease Ruwa. Quillius and I had a good thread going on that one that is not yet finished. I really believe it has only got so far because people are reluctant to question children. I feel that there is enough evidence to investigate electrical faults and crews making repairs, that is what I believe the children saw. Most of the pictures were held back from the public, no adult saw it, the so called proof is actually adult interpretations of children's tales, and one of the drawings I reckon is a very good likeness of the Lost In Space saucer.


Torres and Ruwa are probably the only incidents in that lot worth discussing, the rest of it is rubbish Zoser. Might I suggest you stick to one topic at a time? Flooding looks like you are trying to put out so much information that nobody can cover it all, and appears dishonest on the face, and I know you do not want to put that impression across.

Good luck with your continued search. I still think Portage County trumps all of these cases tied together and folded over.

Edited by psyche101, 15 June 2012 - 12:15 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#19    Lcvec

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:34 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 14 June 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

I think Hazz hit the nail on the head, you can believe her or not. I am struggling to dig up much on the family, one link that seems to pertain to the claim is one that say one of the sons goes on the be a Mormon preacher later in life, and that's about it, they drop of the radar. One would think she saw something that freaked her out, and in that instance military should be considered, but I am more wondering the nature of this vist, did Aliens cross the galaxy to buzz a woman and her sons? I could not call her a liar at face value, but I cannot shake Hynek's words in this case.

“There are just too many things going against this theory. To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligences would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people. I think we must begin to re-examine the evidence. We must begin to look closer to home.”

Which can be viewed at this link

The Wikipedia entry of this quote has been removed, one wonders just how low UFOlogists can sink? That act reeks of desperation!
Travis Walton also described Nordic type people in blue suit's didn't he? But not the best of references.

I wouldn't question why aliens would do something like that, not because I find it illogical (from a human perspective it is), but who knows what was going on or what were their intentions? I think the only thing that's safe to say is that there are too many claims, too many witnesses and too many people wanting attention so I agree that when it comes to stories, they can make us question a few things but it's definitely not proof of anything.


#20    psyche101

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:39 AM

View PostLcvec, on 15 June 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

I wouldn't question why aliens would do something like that, not because I find it illogical (from a human perspective it is), but who knows what was going on or what were their intentions? I think the only thing that's safe to say is that there are too many claims, too many witnesses and too many people wanting attention so I agree that when it comes to stories, they can make us question a few things but it's definitely not proof of anything.

I cannot understand why intelligence would be so different, if someone is crossing space to meet other species, we must have something in common, yes? I think we should work with out pool of one, and expand on that as new information comes in as opposed to guessing things and believing we are right. To my experience, making guesses and them relying on them tends to lead to major let downs. I find the claims make little sense and struggle to see what could be accomplished in any capacity from a visit such as this claim.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#21    Lcvec

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:53 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 15 June 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

I cannot understand why intelligence would be so different, if someone is crossing space to meet other species, we must have something in common, yes? I think we should work with out pool of one, and expand on that as new information comes in as opposed to guessing things and believing we are right. To my experience, making guesses and them relying on them tends to lead to major let downs. I find the claims make little sense and struggle to see what could be accomplished in any capacity from a visit such as this claim.

You do make a good point, but I just don't think we should try to always look for reason in a possible ET intelligent being. We use logic when discussing and analyzing something, but in our actions it's not always that way. We're driven by emotions, desires. In an event such as the one described in the first post, the aliens would be the ones acting and we're the ones discussing and analyzing, so when you ask me if we have something in common with them, it's exactly the question I ask you. They might have a different approach to studying new findings from what we do. Showing themselves to humans for no apparent reason could actually mean something to them, it's a good way to know how we interact with each other and how our society works when it comes to making new discoveries. It would answer questions such as "If we show ourselves to a human, would all humans automatically acknowledge our existence?". The same could go for more nonsense out there, in fact it makes more sense to me than deciding to visit a big city during daytime and making sure everyone could see them.

Edit to add that I'm not saying every claim is true, just that some of them are possible

Edited by Lcvec, 15 June 2012 - 03:01 AM.


#22    psyche101

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:09 AM

View PostLcvec, on 15 June 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

You do make a good point, but I just don't think we should try to always look for reason in a possible ET intelligent being. We use logic when discussing and analyzing something, but in our actions it's not always that way. We're driven by emotions, desires. In an event such as the one described in the first post, the aliens would be the ones acting and we're the ones discussing and analyzing, so when you ask me if we have something in common with them, it's exactly the question I ask you. They might have a different approach to studying new findings from what we do. Showing themselves to humans for no apparent reason could actually mean something to them, it's a good way to know how we interact with each other and how our society works when it comes to making new discoveries. It would answer questions such as "If we show ourselves to a human, would all humans automatically acknowledge our existence?". The same could go for more nonsense out there, in fact it makes more sense to me than deciding to visit a big city during daytime and making sure everyone could see them.

Edit to add that I'm not saying every claim is true, just that some of them are possible

And in turn you make a good point, we are driven by emotion at times, but I think a more curbing factor with science is ethics. It strikes me that ethically an advanced species is unlikely to "beat around the bush" so to speak. But overall, just coming here makes no sense to me. I see what you are saying, and in fact I agree that alien visitation is very plausible, I just do not believe sufficient proof has been uncovered to confirm that as fact. I find our effort with the Orion Project back in the late 50's  a strong indicator that a determined species could wander space, but logically, I feel it make a great deal more sense to make contact via communications with another intelligent species as opposed to observing them. That eliminates the need for massive resources, negates threat to life, and is at the speed of light. And if you really wanted to look at an agressive species, you would know by contact, and then be able to observe from a safe distance. I just find logic dictates that something like the WOW! signal is far more likely to be first contact than an abduction type scenario or some alien buzzing an innocent being.

If I was put in charge of contacting an alien species, I would probably send a satellite out on the fastest possible route to the edge of the solar system, and try to use it as a relay of sorts to expand our ranges.

What I find maddening about 99% of cases is that we have to imagine reasons why some anomaly is an alien in hiding, or why that strange RADAR return is surely an alien. We create the situation, nearly always, there is no reason to think Alien, it is just an easy out to point at a higher power,and man is famous for doing that, right back as far as Zeus trowing lighting bolts. Add to that the charlatans and snake oil salesmen, and even just those seeking attention, and the field has an extremely dubious side to it, which is what I remain vigilant of. If anything, it is very saddening to see so many people out there using this phenomena to their own advantage.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#23    zoser

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:20 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 15 June 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Wow, that thread went downhill at a rapid rate! It started as probably the best Zoser thread to date, and now this! Crikey!

Good to see you find Reagans speech not worth discussing. That is a dead end and IMO not behaviour becoming a president. I thought he looked the fool on the world stage.


I take it we won't be seeing you on this thread again then?

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#24    zoser

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

Does anyone have a recent example of where UFO's have landed and people have seen them close up or relatively close?  It looks to me as if there are a lot of cases like this from the 60's and 70's but the nearer to our time we go the less we find.  Can anyone corroborate this?

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#25    zoser

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 03:56 PM

On the theme of UFO's landing here is the famous case of Edwin Fuhr (Canada 1974).  Another trace evidence case:



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#26    Hazzard

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

Speaking of UFOs,...





I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#27    zoser

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:31 PM

Here is another one.  The date is 1953 and Kelly Johnson is a famous aviation scientist with an interesting story to tell:



Edited by zoser, 15 June 2012 - 04:32 PM.

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#28    Lcvec

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:48 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 15 June 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

And in turn you make a good point, we are driven by emotion at times, but I think a more curbing factor with science is ethics. It strikes me that ethically an advanced species is unlikely to "beat around the bush" so to speak. But overall, just coming here makes no sense to me. I see what you are saying, and in fact I agree that alien visitation is very plausible, I just do not believe sufficient proof has been uncovered to confirm that as fact. I find our effort with the Orion Project back in the late 50's  a strong indicator that a determined species could wander space, but logically, I feel it make a great deal more sense to make contact via communications with another intelligent species as opposed to observing them. That eliminates the need for massive resources, negates threat to life, and is at the speed of light. And if you really wanted to look at an agressive species, you would know by contact, and then be able to observe from a safe distance. I just find logic dictates that something like the WOW! signal is far more likely to be first contact than an abduction type scenario or some alien buzzing an innocent being.

If I was put in charge of contacting an alien species, I would probably send a satellite out on the fastest possible route to the edge of the solar system, and try to use it as a relay of sorts to expand our ranges.

What I find maddening about 99% of cases is that we have to imagine reasons why some anomaly is an alien in hiding, or why that strange RADAR return is surely an alien. We create the situation, nearly always, there is no reason to think Alien, it is just an easy out to point at a higher power,and man is famous for doing that, right back as far as Zeus trowing lighting bolts. Add to that the charlatans and snake oil salesmen, and even just those seeking attention, and the field has an extremely dubious side to it, which is what I remain vigilant of. If anything, it is very saddening to see so many people out there using this phenomena to their own advantage.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't believe the Earth is being visited by ET or that it ever was, there isn't enough evidence for that and looking at distance/time/technology issues, it seems even less likely. What I meant was that some of the stories are possible, just like the chances of ET visiting us right now, however small those chances are. Communication would be the most logical means to study a new civilization and even if there is an alien civilization out there that's more advanced than us, I don't think they'd be advanced enough to be capable of interstellar travel, but that's just my opinion of course. The only scenario where the abductions and sightings would fit is the one where aliens are here and they're so far ahead of us that they can come and go as they please, and they don't feel like we could be any threat to them even if we wanted to. I'm sure you'll agree with me if I say it's extremely unlikely, but we can't say it's absolutely impossible either. As for the fake cases and charlatans, if I had to guess I'd say 95% of the stories are just human imagination.


#29    Hazzard

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:49 PM

Visitation real or not,... I simply can NOT stand Stanton Friedman.

This is a charlatan, and  if anyone, he belongs in the UFO Hall of Shame.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#30    zoser

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostHazzard, on 15 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Visitation real or not,... I simply can NOT stand Stanton Friedman.

This is a charlatan, and  if anyone, he belongs in the UFO Hall of Shame.

Never mind about Stan the man,  What about Kelly Johnson?

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