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Petition to make devocalization illegal


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#76    JGirl

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

while i was more than happy to sign the petition for this i'm not very amused at the amount of unsolicited mail i'm now getting from this organization.
i have deleted four emails about one cause or another in the past two days. i have also now blocked their addy and will not as a matter of principle sign anything else from them


#77    Grey14

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

View PostWGH, on 01 November 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Almost all dogs can be trained. If you want to go down the de-vocalisation route its likeley because its easier. If thats the case don't own a dog.No animal should be mutilated by us, we think we're such an incredibly intelligent species. Makes me sick. The human race (as a whole) is nothing but barbaric and arrogant.
If I was a US citizen I would have signed the petition in an instant.

Not to say you shouldn't but do you have your pets spaded or nuetered? Because your mutilating thier sexual organs and denying them the opprotunity to breed and have off spring, are you ok with that?

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#78    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostGrey14, on 01 November 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Not to say you shouldn't but do you have your pets spaded or nuetered? Because your mutilating thier sexual organs and denying them the opprotunity to breed and have off spring, are you ok with that?

Surely that denies the dog their human right to breed


#79    SueP

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

Anyone can sign the petition. You do not have to live in the US to sign. We welcome those from other countries signing. Many countries in Europe have recognized that devocalization is animal cruelty and have outlawed it.  Let the U.S vets know if you live outside the US. Let vets know that devocalization is mutilation no matter where you live. Sign and share widely: http://www.change.org/stopdevocalizing


#80    SueP

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

Unfortunately this petition is open to US residents only, but I wanted to share this here to make sure that everyone has a chance to sign it. It's a petition to let veterinarians that de-vocalizing dogs AND cats is mutilation. If you aren't quite sure what this is, they basically cut a dog's or cat's vocal cords so they cannot make any noise. It's a cruel and inhumane thing to do to these animals. If they are willing to put a stop to the "cropping" of ears of certain breeds, why won't they stop de-vocalization?

I signed the petition. Will you?

Petition

Karen and I started this petition. It is open to everyone, not just US residents. Many European nations recognize that devocalization is animal cruely and have outlawed it. It is important for the US vet association to hear from EVERYONE. It is time for the vet assoc.  to change their position on this act of cruelty. It is time for the US join the civilized nations.


#81    MissMelsWell

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:56 AM

So, here we go.

I have a "bark softened" dog. (we'll get into what that means in a moment)

I did not have the procedure done to her, I received her when she was 2 years old from a well known, highly respected breeder and show professional. I know why the breeder had the procedure done, and I agree with it. It was a highly personal choice of hers and I can live with her reasons. Personally, I don't believe I'd have the procedure done, and I KNOW I would never have done it to my dog. She's not really an incessant barker at all. In fact, she's pretty quiet naturally.

So... here's what I think I know. I'm VERY sure my dog has NO clue she's been bark softened, it has no affect on her personality or behavior what-so-ever. She's clueless that shes not as loud as other dogs and she can't feel the affects of the procedure at all. Its probably less of a consequence to her than her spaying.

Moving on... there are quite a few ways to "de-vocalize" a dog with varying results. As I said, my dog is bark softened. She still has an audible bark, ti's just not very loud. In fact, because of the way the procedure is performed, she gets a little louder as she gets older. The procedure that was performed on her was one where the vet placed her under anesthesia, then put tiny holes in her vocal chords, about the size of a piercing more or less. It's a fairly simple procedure, and the risks are low. It's most often performed on small yappy dogs, and other breeds which are known for their propensity to bark for the joy of barking like schnauzers, rough collies and most frequently, shelties. I don't have much of a problem with bark softening after living with a softened dog who is so dear to me. If someone has a dog they can't train the bark out of, and risks haveing to give that dog up to a shelter, I'd advocate a softening as a last ditch effort to keep a dog in its loving home.

What I do NOT advocate is a "de-barking" This is when the vet goes in and either half slices the chords or cuts them completely. Having known 2 rough collie who had this procedure done on them, I have a very different view on this. This is cruel. I'm convinced that these dogs do know there's something wrong, and I am also convinced that they are uncomfortable. The gagging sounds, the excessive spitting and drooling they seem to do indicates an adverse side effect to this procedure. I would never advocate it.

So there you have it. I'm as ok with a softening as I am with spaying or neutering. I am NOT an advoate of "de-barking" They're similar, but NOT the same. I won't sign the pettion because they include softening in this movement. And in rare cases I do advocate softening.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 09 November 2012 - 04:10 AM.

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#82    pallidin

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:33 AM

My dog speaks to me. In it's own language, but I understand most of what she is trying to tell me; food, need to go outside, intruder alert, etc..
Devocalization is something I would just never consider. My opinion.


#83    Mistydawn

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:56 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 09 November 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

So, here we go.

I have a "bark softened" dog. (we'll get into what that means in a moment)

I did not have the procedure done to her, I received her when she was 2 years old from a well known, highly respected breeder and show professional. I know why the breeder had the procedure done, and I agree with it. It was a highly personal choice of hers and I can live with her reasons. Personally, I don't believe I'd have the procedure done, and I KNOW I would never have done it to my dog. She's not really an incessant barker at all. In fact, she's pretty quiet naturally.

So... here's what I think I know. I'm VERY sure my dog has NO clue she's been bark softened, it has no affect on her personality or behavior what-so-ever. She's clueless that shes not as loud as other dogs and she can't feel the affects of the procedure at all. Its probably less of a consequence to her than her spaying.

Moving on... there are quite a few ways to "de-vocalize" a dog with varying results. As I said, my dog is bark softened. She still has an audible bark, ti's just not very loud. In fact, because of the way the procedure is performed, she gets a little louder as she gets older. The procedure that was performed on her was one where the vet placed her under anesthesia, then put tiny holes in her vocal chords, about the size of a piercing more or less. It's a fairly simple procedure, and the risks are low. It's most often performed on small yappy dogs, and other breeds which are known for their propensity to bark for the joy of barking like schnauzers, rough collies and most frequently, shelties. I don't have much of a problem with bark softening after living with a softened dog who is so dear to me. If someone has a dog they can't train the bark out of, and risks haveing to give that dog up to a shelter, I'd advocate a softening as a last ditch effort to keep a dog in its loving home.

What I do NOT advocate is a "de-barking" This is when the vet goes in and either half slices the chords or cuts them completely. Having known 2 rough collie who had this procedure done on them, I have a very different view on this. This is cruel. I'm convinced that these dogs do know there's something wrong, and I am also convinced that they are uncomfortable. The gagging sounds, the excessive spitting and drooling they seem to do indicates an adverse side effect to this procedure. I would never advocate it.

So there you have it. I'm as ok with a softening as I am with spaying or neutering. I am NOT an advoate of "de-barking" They're similar, but NOT the same. I won't sign the pettion because they include softening in this movement. And in rare cases I do advocate softening.

If I got a dog that had had this procedure done my heart would bleed for it. I probably would spoil it rotten in an attempt at some kind of attonement.
I think that we as the human species are pretty despicable in our treatment of animals. Pets, get panderdered and cossetted not always a good thing, but at least we are showing love, of a kind.
A Vet, ordained by our universites as having knowledge and worthiness to treat the animals in our care, taking an animal and "de-vocalising it" sickens me to the heart and to the soul. Just me then.

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#84    JGirl

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

i have always been able to train my dogs not to bark unnecessarily. it's not luck, it's consistancy from the earliest stage of the puppy's life possible. it's not the least bit difficult, it just takes a bit of time and effort.
even a one yr old i adopted learned quickly what to use his barking for.
the softening procedure i just read from missmelswell seems like a good last resort for people who would otherwise have to give up their animals.


#85    MissMelsWell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 15 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

If I got a dog that had had this procedure done my heart would bleed for it. I probably would spoil it rotten in an attempt at some kind of attonement.
I think that we as the human species are pretty despicable in our treatment of animals. Pets, get panderdered and cossetted not always a good thing, but at least we are showing love, of a kind.
A Vet, ordained by our universites as having knowledge and worthiness to treat the animals in our care, taking an animal and "de-vocalising it" sickens me to the heart and to the soul. Just me then.

Most people who hear my dog "speak" don't really know she's been bark softened, they really just think she's got a "funny" bark.

As I said, I would never have had my dog "bark softened" for me it was not necessary, but for her previous owner, it was. Either way, after living with my dog for 5 years now, I'm convinced she has zero clue she's been altered. It's affected her in no way what-so-ever.

If I had a dog who I could not train the bark out of to a reasonable level, I'd consider "bark softening" as a last resort. I'd NEVER in a million years consider de-barking. I think that's a very different beast, one that can be detrimental to a dogs mental and physical well being.

"It's time for the American people to stand up and shrug off the shackles of our government at TSA at the airport"  Ron Paul

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin




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