Iran massing troops on Iraq border

[DC09]

Beirut, Lebanon, Jun. 15 (UPI) -- Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.

The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.

Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."

Article

[Talon]

If they do move against Iraq is gives the US the perfect opertunity to attack Iran, take out another member of the Axis of evil, without being blamed for invading without provication .

Although more likely due to the anti-war sentiment, the US will sit back and let Iran absorb Iraq. Dear god, thats all we need, an even larger Iran.

[jenk]

What a sad world we live in .....

[DC09]

If they do move against Iraq is gives the US the perfect opertunity to attack Iran, take out another member of the Axis of evil, without being blamed for invading without provication  .

Yep.

Although more likely due to the anti-war sentiment, the US will sit back and let Iran absorb Iraq.

Unfortunately, you might be right... If Kerry gets elected president I know you'll be right.

*sigh*

[Fenris]

Not that I'm a cynic or anything

But that could be just what the US government could want. They are in a no win situation in Iraq, if they stay, the resistance will continue, american troops continue to get killed, opinion of the government both home and abroad continues to be erroded. If they go, there will undoubtably be a bloody civil war with several factions vieing for power. Again they look bad and large portions of their public will castigate them.... the proverbial 'between a rock and a hard place'

If the US pull out and Iran invades, the US gets chance to cast itself in the light of "Good guy" - "We where just trying to protect Iraq" which is bull but a lot of gullable folks (Like republican voters for instance) would swallow it.

Knowing there is no stomach for further war with most of the US public, they can hide behind the UN (Which they do when it suits them, ignoring the UN when iit doesn't!) saying "We got pilloried for going it alone last time, we will only be involved if you are"

I can see the whitehouse PRAYING that Iran does something that stupid..... it gets them right off the hook!

[Erikl]

Seems like the Ayatolas are trying to get back at the Iraqis... and they have many reasons to do so:

1. Ideology - Baghdad was the capital of the great Shiite caliphate in medieval timers, and which was a Persian empire.

2. Religion - Shiia's most sacred cities are in Iraq.

3. Economy - the unification of Iraqi oil fields and Iranian oil fields will make Iran the biggest oil producer in the world - bigger than Saudi Arabia.

4. Territory - the Iranians lost territory in the Iran-Iraq war of the 80s.

5. Demography - of 20 million Iraqis, 12 milion, or 60% of the population, is Shiite.

The unification of Arab Shiites and Iranian Shiites will create a huge Shiite empire - almost 90 milion Shiites!

This will make Iran the biggest country in the Middle-East in terms of trritory and demography (leaving Turkey in the second place and Egypt in the third place), which will give it a huge diplomatic leverage.

Anyhow, this is too much "Tom Clancy like".... maybe this will cause peace between all Arab states and Israel, just like Clancy predicts...

[+joc]

If the US pull out and Iran invades, the US gets chance to cast itself in the light of "Good guy" - "We where just trying to protect Iraq" which is bull but a lot of gullable folks (Like republican voters for instance) would swallow it.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Gulp............ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....that was good...yum

If I may, please allow me the opportunity to analogize the current world events, with respect to the middle east, with a more palpable flavour:

On the eave of your house, just outside the front door, is a huge yellow jackets nest. The nest grew and grew and grew....you killed a few wasps when they got too close. But one day your children were stung badly when the yellow jackets swarmed furiously. You resolved therefore to 'take out the nest'. You destroyed the nest and most of the wasps....many still swarm around in the trees though.

Now your children can play safely.......or can they.......no, they can't, because just around the corner of the house, on an adjacent eave hangs an even larger red wasp nest.....and what's more, on the back side of the house is a hive of 'killer bees'. You want your children to be safe and never have to suffer the massive stinging of the past............what do you do?

You resolve....one way or the other....to take out all of the nests and destroy completely the threat.

thank-you

[Stamford]

You resolve....one way or the other....to take out all of the nests and destroy completely the threat.

Ahhh, I love the smell of World War III in the morning.

Please explain to me, joc, how you propose to do the aforementioned?

Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?

Do we really want two volatile, unstable countries next to one another, rallying evey Islamic nut job from around the World?

Obviously occupation by an already overburdened and moral sapped US Army would be difficult to say the least.

Which would leave us with few other options......unless of course you are suggesting we nuke them, which you wouldn't do, would you joc?

We are already being criticised as undertaking a new crusade against the Muslim world, comments like yours seem to back this theory up!

Edited June 16, 2004 by Stamford

[+joc]

Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?

It only seems that way because you gobble up every word of the biased liberal press! The truth is far different. And much better....not just better sounding....better. You cannot compare Iraq in its current condition to the way we all live in our countries. You must compare Iraq in its current condition to the Iraq of Saddam Hussein. Put down the joint for a moment dude and contemplate the obvious.........we are winning!

[Stamford]

Put down the joint for a moment dude and contemplate the obvious.........we are winning!

Thanks for putting me straight joc:

The joint is now out.

I have disconnected my TV.

Stopped reading news papers.

And am now receiving my news updates from 'Planet Joc' the non-biased, non-liberal information service.

Still, if I might consult you on one question, oh wise sage, you completely ignored my question regarding Iran.

In your own time.

[bathory]

Seeing as Iraq has now descended into a land of lawlessness, with a power vacum waiting to be filled by Islamic Extremism the minute we vacate, what would you suggest we do with Iran, the same?

i think generally speaking, Iraq has improved greatly (take into consideration its still a work in progress), we have to remember that the media is only giving major coverage to the negative aspects such as attacks, instead of presenting stories on how there are more schools etc being built because of the occupation

[Fenris]

joc,

It is you that is lapping up every idioting, jingoistic slant that fits with your warped point of view.... the reality on the ground in Iraq is a total MESS. Yes even compaired to under Saddam's reign..... it isn't as bad as immediatly following the American occupation, where the rule of law totaly broke down and anything that wasn't nailed down got looted. But still, even now, the everyday Iraqi is in more danger of .... Being shot by the so called liberators.... Being blown up or shot by so called freedom fighters (Terrorists).... being mugged, raped, stolen from because the police forces are only just barely functional. Sure they have more political freedom, aledgedly... so long as they adopt a form of government that the Americans want rather than the fundamentalist muslim government that undoubtably has the popular public support in their country! But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.

STOP EATING THE MUSHROOMS! or have you been on the Peyote again?

[bathory]

But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.

care to support that?

[Fenris]

But life of the average Iraqi is WORSE, not better since the war.

care to support that?

Try watching some independant news rather than one that has to keep the whitehouse placated! I did support it with the statements I made about being shot/blown up by either side (Are you disputing that?) and the inefficent state of law enforcement (How about that?) both those have been clearly shown and those are just two, there are plenty more!

[Fluffybunny]

You cannot compare Iraq in its current condition to the way we all live in our countries. You must compare Iraq in its current condition to the Iraq of Saddam Hussein.

I think that you are right in that aspect joc, you can't make comparisons between our conditions to theirs, it isn't fair. In my opinion I don't think the life of an Iraqi citizen is better than it was under saddam. Could it be in the future? hopefully it will, but as Bathory said this is a work in progress and only time will tell. I think that we can't really claim that we have won anything until Iraq is stable and have a government in place that suits our needs.

If we leave Iraq and it devolves into what it was before we liberated them, well in my opinion it was all a failure at that point. Right now it is too early to put a checkmark in the win column, sorry. Just getting saddam out is great, but there are several just like him waiting to take his place, and unless we have long term positive results in Iraq, the whole mission would be a failure.

I read somewhere years ago a joke about how the news never reports on planes that land safely, or houses that don't burn. It isn't a newsworthy event, and as news programs have to fight for ratings like every other show in the world, they are going to follow the stories that have the biggest impact on viewers. Dying soldiers will get a headline every time over a newly built schoolhouse. I hope joc that you realize that a bias can run both ways in news reporting. I would hope that you realize that Rush has as much of an agenda in the news he reports as does any liberal news media outlet. If you think that your news sources are the only real truth out there, you are mistaken.

Are there enough positive schoolhouse type events that don't get covered to outweigh all the death and destruction? I don’t know for sure, but my opinion is no, not yet. There are definite positive steps being taken to establish an infrastructure that will benefit the citizens in Iraq. I read yesterday that Iraqi citizens are frustrated with the slow pace of reconstruction of the infrastructure [Hint: stop kidnapping and killing the contractors sent there to help you…], as well as the general lawlessness that is going on in the country.

As for Iran, I think that even as much as they outwardly protested our liberation of Iraq, they were privately throwing parties (with little umbrellas in their drinks) because we did in a short time what they had failed to do for so long. Once we leave the region they know that Iraq will be easily influenced and infiltrated. I am sure that they are chomping at the bit to get their hands on the oil fields of Iraq.

[Fluffybunny]

You resolve....one way or the other....to take out all of the nests and destroy completely the threat.

thank-you

So joc, should we nuke them now, or later?

joc, I love your analogies...you make things so simple to understand...

...unfortunately...

For every problem, there is one solution which is simple, neat and wrong.

Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)

[Naveed]

If they do move against Iraq is gives the US the perfect opertunity to attack Iran, take out another member of the Axis of evil, without being blamed for invading without provication .

Although more likely due to the anti-war sentiment, the US will sit back and let Iran absorb Iraq. Dear god, thats all we need, an even larger Iran.

I think the U.S. will probably turn against itself eventually within the next 20 years. Friggin media doesn't know when to shut up so each war becomes another Vietnam. Thats why we have all the anti-war sentiment. What happened to the days when people were patriotic, like in WWII? Or even WWI?

[+joc]

So joc, should we nuke them now, or later?

joc, I love your analogies...you make things so simple to understand...

...unfortunately...

I am not advocating nuking anyone. I am simply saying that you cannot take out Saddam only and expect the other threats to just go away.

To analogize yet again: Nuking anyone over there would be equivalent to eradicating the wasp nest with a stick of dynamite.

For every problem, there is one solution which is simple, neat and wrong.

Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)

This quote is actually very true. Too many people have the simple, neat and ultimately wrong idea about the war on terror.....TALK TO THEM...SHOW THEM WE CARE AND ARE UNDERSTANDING....NEGOTIATE A PEACE SETTLEMENT........

Again, I will reitertate: You are a very intelligent guy Fluffybunny. But you are just flat out wrong about the war in Iraq and about President Bush. No matter how I try to paint the correct picture for you, you just have this amazing ability to gloss right over the points somehow. Oh well....perhaps we should just agree to disagree. In the end we will get old and die. But in the meantime..............

.....as Earl Pitts American would say........

WAKE UP AMERICA!

[Stamford]

No matter how I try to paint the correct picture for you, you just have this amazing ability to gloss right over the points somehow.

Maybe joc, we have trouble seeing this rosy image of Iraq because the facts speak louder than your patriotic flag waving.

Right now Coalition soldiers have pulled out of towns under cease fire agreements with terrorists, there have been assisinations of Iraq ploiticians, car bombings happening every day in Baghdad, kidnapping of Western workers, massacres of Iraqi security services, hospitals running out of medicine, oil pipes being destroyed and the streets of the Capital are overflowing with sewerage and you want to start another war with Iran?

Not content with the mess we will be leaving behind us, you now want to repeat this folly there.

May I remind you, joc, that Iran hasn't been crippled by the kinds of sanctions that had Iraq on the ropes before the first shot of the war was fired.

[wunarmdscissor]

Right on stamford and fluffybunny.

You keep goin on about our liberal media.

So joc which newspaper, and stations are liberal over here , do tell me please.

The staunchest right wing media here is among the most critical of the war.

As for Iran well what the hell did we expect would happen when we weakened iraq lol.

That we'd pull pull out and all the countries around it would just forget about about the past.

Ok joc i know your not to great with the past so i'll highlight it for you.

We funded Iraq and armed them in a decade long war with Iran,

with our weapons husseign committed countless atrocities against the iranian people.

But tehre you go lets just forget about that........now wheres my rose coloured specs.

[+joc]

If we leave Iraq and it devolves into what it was before we liberated them, well in my opinion it was all a failure at that point. Right now it is too early to put a checkmark in the win column, sorry. Just getting saddam out is great, but there are several just like him waiting to take his place, and unless we have long term positive results in Iraq, the whole mission would be a failure

ATTENTION FORUM MEMBERS:

Fluffybunny and joc are in agreement once again!!

So joc which newspaper, and stations are liberal over here , do tell me please.

The staunchest right wing media here is among the most critical of the war.

Then I can only conclude that they all are!!

Maybe joc, we have trouble seeing this rosy image of Iraq because the facts speak louder than your patriotic flag waving.

To highlight the negative facts and completely ignore the positive facts creates an impression of things which is not accurate. No one said the image was rosy. That is your quote not mine.

Edited June 17, 2004 by joc

[Fenris]

Don't count your chickens just yet joc..... as I've a feeling that Fluffy may have an entirely diffrent definition of what constitutes "long term positive results in Iraq" than you do.

For instance I suspect his definition includes true democracy for the Iraqies, even if they choose a government that is activly opposed to American interests!

[Fluffybunny]

To highlight the negative facts and completely ignore the positive facts creates an impression of things which is not accurate.

Everyone sing along....

You've got to Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive ..eliminate the negative...

[Stamford]

To highlight the negative facts and completely ignore the positive facts creates an impression of things which is not accurate. No one said the image was rosy.

I probably shouldn't mention the 35 people killed in a suicide bombing in Baghdad yesterday then?

Bit too negative.

[bathory]

I probably shouldn't mention the 35 people killed in a suicide bombing in Baghdad yesterday then?

you should mention it, however you should also mention the positive stuff that is happening:)

that said, during this war, we have seen less deaths than those directly attributed to Saddam over a similar period, in non-war time, thats not counting all the people who got screwed over because of the UN sanctions that did nothing because of Saddams abuse of the Oil for castles program:)