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sceptical opinions on personal experiences


Lucas Cooper Merrin

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I, like many on the UM forums I am a sceptic! But im not a downright non believer! I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say there are earthly phenomena that we cannot explain!and i want nothing more that to see a ufo land on the Whitehouse lawn, or for science to confirm the existence of the soul.....but regardless of the story, photograph, experience or video, every logical and rational explanation should be adressed first! An analytical approach, in my opinion is basic common sense!

Many of you (myself included) will have been involved in various debates regarding the personal experience of an individual involving a haunting or a ghostly visitation etc..etc, obviously nobody has any way of validating the claims of personal experience? So for any further interaction to occur we must accept the honesty of the author, regardless of how farfetched and fanciful the tale may sound! Thats the first hurdle for the sceptical reader!

The second hurdle is the main reason i am starting this thread..... so, we have established that the author is truthful in their belief that their ghostly experience was genuine, this is where the "believers" should start to do a little research before giving the advice to burn rosemary and call in the priest, **and i believe the following should be made as basic site advice for those who come looking for answers and advice to their experiences before any other fringe nonsense is provided by other members** Auditory/visual hallucinations are the symptoms and side effects of many medical and pharmaceutical scenarios!

The vast majority of prescription drugs are capable of causing a huge range of side effects including hallucinations and experiencing things which are not real, psychosis, nightmares, even over the couter pain killers carry these possibilities! And i STRONGLY ADVISE anybody on any medication to thoroughly research their medication Reguardless if you are experiencing any side effects!

The same effects are obviously even more pronounced with the use of drugs for recreational purposes! Just because you haven't had a hallucinogenic reaction before dosnt mean it wont happen, and you have also no idea what your taking really is or has been cut with!

Mental illness diagnosed or undiagnosed are capable of a huge range of horrifc symptoms,Schizophrenia, dementia, and delirium can all cause complete disconnection from reality from all the senses! Early onset and undiagnosed mental issues can bubble away under the surface for years altering your perceptions with out you thinking anythings wrong,

Viruses and fever are also known to cause hallucinations and experiencing what is not real!

We all know that a build up of carbon monoxide in dwellings is dangerous and can kill, but it can also cause hallucinations and alterd perceptions! This can also be said for the build up of other gases and chemicals from cleaning products etc, even certain plastic floor coverings can give off gas and oders through time or with the appication of heat that can cause sensory malfunction!

Sleep paralysis and Hypnagogic hallucination are probably the number one cause of paranormal experience! And its more common than you think! I have had a few unnerving moments due to this! More often than not the subject is in the process of either waking or falling asleep, caught with the inability to move or speak but being visually awake, this panic coupled with a dream like state causes the dream to combine with the eyes imput making for a very scary experience! Personaly i have been surrounded by native indians to being probed by aliens, but its a well documented medical condition not a paranormal experience!

Even sleep deprivation can cause sensory hallucinations!

Although i dont claim to a medical expert or a psychiatric professional, i do think that before any form of "fringe" advice is given to somebody seeking help from a "paranormal issue" the above needs to be ruled out!

Having Faith and sleeping with a crucifix is not going to help somebody suffering from Schizophrenia!

Im not having a go at staunch believers in the paranormal, im just saying lets rule out the most obvious and realistic, before burning the sage and potentially making a bad situation worse!

Thanks for reading

Lucas!

Edited by Father Merrin
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I am a great fan of the exclamation mark and use them a lot, but you exceed my wildest usage!

(Sorry, nothing to say about the actual content of the above).

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I am a great fan of the exclamation mark and use them a lot, but you exceed my wildest usage!

(Sorry, nothing to say about the actual content of the above).

Hahaha you know thats a habbit that stems from my report writing days, the full stop button on my laptop got jammed up with crumbs and spilt lager so i used the exclamation mark instead! I now do it automatically :)

P.s I'm not really expecting replies, it was more aimed for people just to read to try and save abit of the aggravation and clashing between members when situations do arise where paranormal experience advice is asked for

Edited by Father Merrin
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Padre

Auditory/visual hallucinations are the symptoms and side effects of many medical and pharmaceutical scenarios!

If I have a reservation about your posts, with which I frequently substantially agree, it is that you are too quick (IMO) to go for the illness or drug impairment explanation of things reported here.

Auditory and visual hallucinations are also the inevitable consequence of being able to hear and see. The situation is exacerbated by a fact abou human perception: we typically do not see a range of possibilities, but a single specific processed version of what the stimulus might be, a "best guess," and usually without any sensation that other viable alternatives were rejected.

Example The Necker cube (searchable). People see one of three things in this line drawing:

~ a cube receding into the plane of the drawing

~ a cube jutting out from the the plane of the drawing

~ (rarely spontaneously, but easy with practice) a network of co-planar line segments.

The first two are the usual percepts, and each is unstable - typically, you'll see one for a while, and suddenly you see the other for a while, then back to the first way, and so on. We remember that there was a different way we saw it, but we don't see the "superposition" of the two, we see it one way or else the other at any given moment.

If the stimulus is more elaborate than this simple line drawing, then it is predictable that a lot more will go into formulating the "best guess" that is the single conscious percept. It cannot be terribly surprising, then, that best guesses about rich environmental stimuli will often feature meaningful contents familiar in the percipient's culture and background. You and I were recently both in a thread about an American poster hearing human-like voices saying intelligible things in English - when the stimulus was in fact a noisy household appliance.

What that fellow heard the voices tell him was more concerning than that he heard voices talking to him. (Meh. I don't recall we ever fully got past whether or not he was making it all up for attention before he left us.)

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If extraterrestrial life exists somewhere in the universe, that doesn't mean ufologists were right. The same applies to believers in ghosts, gods, alternative medicine, cryptozoology, numerology, astrology, etc.

Just because we don't know of the existence of something doesn't mean that this thing actually exists. And even if there is some "Exotic Thing", so to speak, I can assure you that believers know nothing about that "Exotic Thing" either. But they like to pretend that they know.

Edited by Anomalocaris
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I, like many on the UM forums I am a sceptic! But im not a downright non believer! I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say there are earthly phenomena that we cannot explain!and i want nothing more that to see a ufo land on the Whitehouse lawn, or for science to confirm the existence of the soul.....but regardless of the story, photograph, experience or video, every logical and rational explanation should be adressed first! An analytical approach, in my opinion is basic common sense!

Many of you (myself included) will have been involved in various debates regarding the personal experience of an individual involving a haunting or a ghostly visitation etc..etc, obviously nobody has any way of validating the claims of personal experience? So for any further interaction to occur we must accept the honesty of the author, regardless of how farfetched and fanciful the tale may sound! Thats the first hurdle for the sceptical reader!

The second hurdle is the main reason i am starting this thread..... so, we have established that the author is truthful in their belief that their ghostly experience was genuine, this is where the "believers" should start to do a little research before giving the advice to burn rosemary and call in the priest, **and i believe the following should be made as basic site advice for those who come looking for answers and advice to their experiences before any other fringe nonsense is provided by other members** Auditory/visual hallucinations are the symptoms and side effects of many medical and pharmaceutical scenarios!

The vast majority of prescription drugs are capable of causing a huge range of side effects including hallucinations and experiencing things which are not real, psychosis, nightmares, even over the couter pain killers carry these possibilities! And i STRONGLY ADVISE anybody on any medication to thoroughly research their medication Reguardless if you are experiencing any side effects!

The same effects are obviously even more pronounced with the use of drugs for recreational purposes! Just because you haven't had a hallucinogenic reaction before dosnt mean it wont happen, and you have also no idea what your taking really is or has been cut with!

Mental illness diagnosed or undiagnosed are capable of a huge range of horrifc symptoms,Schizophrenia, dementia, and delirium can all cause complete disconnection from reality from all the senses! Early onset and undiagnosed mental issues can bubble away under the surface for years altering your perceptions with out you thinking anythings wrong,

Viruses and fever are also known to cause hallucinations and experiencing what is not real!

We all know that a build up of carbon monoxide in dwellings is dangerous and can kill, but it can also cause hallucinations and alterd perceptions! This can also be said for the build up of other gases and chemicals from cleaning products etc, even certain plastic floor coverings can give off gas and oders through time or with the appication of heat that can cause sensory malfunction!

Sleep paralysis and Hypnagogic hallucination are probably the number one cause of paranormal experience! And its more common than you think! I have had a few unnerving moments due to this! More often than not the subject is in the process of either waking or falling asleep, caught with the inability to move or speak but being visually awake, this panic coupled with a dream like state causes the dream to combine with the eyes imput making for a very scary experience! Personaly i have been surrounded by native indians to being probed by aliens, but its a well documented medical condition not a paranormal experience!

Even sleep deprivation can cause sensory hallucinations!

Although i dont claim to a medical expert or a psychiatric professional, i do think that before any form of "fringe" advice is given to somebody seeking help from a "paranormal issue" the above needs to be ruled out!

Having Faith and sleeping with a crucifix is not going to help somebody suffering from Schizophrenia!

Im not having a go at staunch believers in the paranormal, im just saying lets rule out the most obvious and realistic, before burning the sage and potentially making a bad situation worse!

Lucas!

Firstly I would like to congratulate you for actually typing a longer post then your usual brief unacceptable remarks. Secondly as a non - believer you completely rule out any paranormal causes obviously of what OP's claim. And let me tell you something. Even a qualified doctor would to listen carefully to their patient in an lengthy assessment, then send that patient to another very lengthy one to one assessment with highly qualified professionals to diagnose the patient. You sir cannot do armchair diagnose, that is totally ridiculous on your behalf.

Edited by Hudds
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Anomalocaris, you're right, but astrology for example is so very easy to see, that even I can see it working in reality. Does it make my reality special? Hell no, just a bit easier but even if you see those things your vision can erode when you stare too much into them or if aren't being real. And yes it's essential to seriously consider other explanations, all of them.

People can say all kinds of things on the internet. If you have a skill or eye to see what kinda person is on the other side of the screen by their typing, good for you. I don't think I have that, not so much. But it's very unreliable to say for sure how sincere and sane the other person is because I doubt sanity of most people, in internet and real life, as a basis. You're all crazed by your own prejudices, I know for sure I'm no better.

Thoughts are a funny thing. If you deep down think something, it takes more than someone saying "this is how it is, listen to me" to wash it away blank, to get rid of the idea you had. You need to find the reason in your own head, the reasons to wipe that idea off you. Merely thinking something's wrong with you and worrying about it can create a cascade of persisting unpleasant mental states from chronic stress and depression to worse. If you see something out of the ordinary and it's real, not just a twisted result of perception in your head, so what? You won't get fame and riches for it. At best they won't bully you much when you tell it, nor lead you astray.

And yes, keeping your mind open for actual hallucinations, twists of perception in your head, is essential. It should definitely be considered, probably in most cases if not every case. But situation sense should be used, and being mindful of whoever's coming here for whatever reason. Even if they just want to spam and create a fictional story for a laugh and to laugh at everyone in the forum, why should people raise their blood pressure and smash keyboards because of that, or say ill things? To make someone else feel worse? That's just like revenge, on smaller scale.

I'm a hippie, but you know you don't make someone who's "lost" (like a forum troll creating stories) find their way by insulting them, but by showing example. If you take it as an insult and insult back, then you're just copying the troll and let them win game. Don't compete and you can't be beaten.

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@ Father Merrin

I am closing this thread for various reasons but mostly because I doubt your intentions to engage in a serious discussion.

You were complaining recently in your status update that people take things far too “personally” on this forum.

Far-fetched. Fanciful. Fringe, Mental illness. Words like that are used to demean and diminish another’s experience. And take a discussion or debate into the realm of personal attacks. Suggesting that someone is required to see a mental health professional before any “fringe” advice is given on a “paranormal’ issue is ridiculous and not your call to make. Quite frankly this is not a medical forum and you are not a medical professional. It’s a forum where people come to share in their experiences and stories, not a forum for armchair psychiatrists.

I truly do not believe that this should be a believer/non-believer issue. People should be able to engage in a civil discussion without allowing it to devolve into personal attacks.

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