91 replies to this topic

[Hilander]

Quote

1) Fracking is making people sick. There are reports of increases of everything from asthma to nausea to organ failure in neighborhoods where fracking chemicals have already been exploded underground and leaked into the air.
2) Groundwater is being poisoned, and it’s not just evidenced in the explosive methane pouring out of people’s taps that Josh Fox’s Gasland so famously disclosed. Underground aquifers are being silently tainted forever by the explosion of a toxic blend of water-chemicals-and-sand shot deep below the ground to help “free” the natural gas that is locked in rock and shale.

5 Reasons Fracking Should Scare the Absolute Hell Out of You

We can't afford to have our underground aquifers polluted forever.  This is a crime against humanity.  I think we need to come up with something safer to replace fossil fuel.  We can go to the moon, send unmanned spacecraft out to distant planets but we can't come up with a new way to heat our homes and run our cars.

[Jeffertonturner]

Can't agree more! When will looking after ourselves and the planet become a priority?

[Br Cornelius]

 Jeffertonturner, on 29 July 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Can't agree more! When will looking after ourselves and the planet become a priority?

Never whilst there is a penny left to be made out of fossil fuel.

Br Cornelius

[MID]

 Br Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Never whilst there is a penny left to be made out of fossil fuel.

Br Cornelius

Yes, of course.  Running a business and making a profit iis a bad thing.  Understood...completely.

Speak to the government.  They make more from it than the evil energy companies do.

[Br Cornelius]

 MID, on 29 July 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Yes, of course.  Running a business and making a profit iis a bad thing.  Understood...completely.

Speak to the government.  They make more from it than the evil energy companies do.

I reference the famous Indian saying, "only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise we cannot eat money" . Free market economics applied to every aspect of life doesn't always produce the best social good and it is the responsibility of Government and Regulators to weigh the benefits to society against the costs in deciding what it allows its constituent parts to do. The rest will be lost on you since you are a climate change Denier, but the greater good in this case is to stop run away climate change and the loss of a habitable biosphere.
As such I think it is highly appropriate to leave the remaining hydrocarbons in the ground and look for the viable alternatives which also offer us the opportunity of an economic renaissance within a stable fuel price regime. All the fossil fuel industry has to offer is increasing poverty as fuel prices rise, and increasing pollution and illness.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 29 July 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[bulveye]

http://nofrackinguk.com/?p=177
if you live in the UK I think you can sign up on a petition here to help stop fracking.

[MID]

 Br Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I reference the famous Indian saying, "only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise we cannot eat money" . Free market economics applied to every aspect of life doesn't always produce the best social good and it is the responsibility of Government and Regulators to weigh the benefits to society against the costs in deciding what it allows its constituent parts to do. The rest will be lost on you since you are a climate change Denier, but the greater good in this case is to stop run away climate change and the loss of a habitable biosphere.
As such I think it is highly appropriate to leave the remaining hydrocarbons in the ground and look for the viable alternatives which also offer us the opportunity of an economic renaissance within a stable fuel price regime. All the fossil fuel industry has to offer is increasing poverty as fuel prices rise, and increasing pollution and illness.

Br Cornelius

Good way to not answer my post.

You complained about profit.
I pointed out the fact that the government makes more than any gasoline company does on a gallon of gas, and you want to justify that by telling me what government's responsibility is?  They're responsible for what gasoline companies do?
I guess that justifies an economy in turmoil and government profits for doing nothing exceeding those of the companies who do produce the product?
Of course!  Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and by the way, your sensibilities have obviously blinded you to the truth in what I've said.

I am not a denier of climate change.  It changes continuously.  I am a denier of the pseudo-scientific nonsense which says that man is the cause of global warming.
And I of course am not alone.  Many more qualified scientists than me agree that this is a crock.

But that doesn't explain why my rather logical denial of doom and gloom runaway climate change has to do with the idea that man can stop it!

[Br Cornelius]

 MID, on 29 July 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Good way to not answer my post.

You complained about profit.
I pointed out the fact that the government makes more than any gasoline company does on a gallon of gas, and you want to justify that by telling me what government's responsibility is?  They're responsible for what gasoline companies do?
I guess that justifies an economy in turmoil and government profits for doing nothing exceeding those of the companies who do produce the product?
Of course!  Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and by the way, your sensibilities have obviously blinded you to the truth in what I've said.

I am not a denier of climate change.  It changes continuously.  I am a denier of the pseudo-scientific nonsense which says that man is the cause of global warming.
And I of course am not alone.  Many more qualified scientists than me agree that this is a crock.

But that doesn't explain why my rather logical denial of doom and gloom runaway climate change has to do with the idea that man can stop it!

When you make a valid point I will address it MID.

As I said arguments of reason are lost on those who reject reason for ideological belief (that magic hand of the free market which will save us all).
My point is that Governments should be pushing for adoption of renewable s and not thinking purely of their cosy relationship with big oil. By not putting the economy on a sustainable footing they are guaranteeing that our economy will go into decline and the current economic crisis is simply a small example of what is in store in a rising fossil fuel price environment.

Who is avoiding the central point here - and simply restating your denial by pulling the fantastic list of sceptical scientists hardly convinces anyone at this stage.  

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 29 July 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[MID]

 Br Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

As I said arguments of reason are lost on those who reject reason for ideological belief (that magic hand of the free market which will save us all).

I believe nothing.  I can clearly see silliness.

Quote

My point is that Governments should be pushing for adoption of renewable s and not thinking purely of their cosy relationship with big oil. By not putting the economy on a sustainable footing they are guaranteeing that our economy will go into decline and the current economic crisis is simply a small example of what is in store in a rising fossil fuel price environment.

Unfortunately for you, government should be doing the will of the people.  In this case, that means producing our own energy domestically by un-inhibiting the companies who make energy by stupid, intrusive regulation, and promote economic recovery, which would increase r&d and the development of alternative sources for the future...which only the gas/energycompanies will provide!
I fully understand with your left wing political predilection, this is a hard thing to swallow, but it's true.
Thats why yiou make silly references to government's cozy relationship with big oil."

Maybe you'd contact some big oil concerns and ask them how cozy their relationship is with a government that inhibits them with increased taxes, and cumbersome regulations that increase their costs, and diminishes  profits so that R&D departments are inhibited in what they can do???

Gasoline/ oil  is the econom right now--another truth that you avoid, or don't understand.
y. Until we produce our own, there'll be no money to invest in future sources.

It's really very simple.  But I know you're blind to this simple truth.

Quote

Who is avoiding the central point here - and simply restating your denial by pulling the fantastic list of sceptical scientists hardly convinces anyone at this stage

I think it's pretty obvious who's avoiding the real central point here.
\
Thanks for your time...
.

[Br Cornelius]

 MID, on 29 July 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I believe nothing.  I can clearly see silliness.




Unfortunately for you, government should be doing the will of the people.  In this case, that means producing our own energy domestically by un-inhibiting the companies who make energy by stupid, intrusive regulation, and promote economic recovery, which would increase r&d and the development of alternative sources for the future...which only the gas/energycompanies will provide!
I fully understand with your left wing political predilection, this is a hard thing to swallow, but it's true.
Thats why yiou make silly references to government's cozy relationship with big oil."

Maybe you'd contact some big oil concerns and ask them how cozy their relationship is with a government that inhibits them with increased taxes, and cumbersome regulations that increase their costs, and diminishes  profits so that R&D departments are inhibited in what they can do???

Gasoline/ oil  is the econom right now--another truth that you avoid, or don't understand.
y. Until we produce our own, there'll be no money to invest in future sources.

It's really very simple.  But I know you're blind to this simple truth.





I think it's pretty obvious who's avoiding the real central point here.
\
Thanks for your time...
.

Time with you MID is always time wasted

Br Cornelius

[MID]

 Br Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Time with you MID is always time wasted

Br Cornelius

Well of course it is, child.

And I know why, as wekll as why you don't answer points made for you...
It's why I said, "Thank you for your time."

So, thank you for your time.

[Br Cornelius]

 MID, on 29 July 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Well of course it is, child.

And I know why, as wekll as why you don't answer points made for you...
It's why I said, "Thank you for your time."

So, thank you for your time.

You repeatedly ignore the points made to you and then attempt to divert the conversation into your comfort zone o0f right wing free market economics.
The point your are ignoring is that fracking is unsustainable and even uncompetitive with alternative forms of energy. The Government has duty to make the economy sustainable into the distant future and this requires it to intervene in strategic ways to create that future. As a right wing free market ideologue this is unacceptable to you and so you will not consider it as an option. Thats fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously by people who have an understanding of the ecological crisis which we face - and I speak as an informed environmental scientist on this.

So who the child here

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 29 July 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[MID]

 Br Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

You repeatedly ignore the points made to you and then attempt to divert the conversation into your comfort zone o0f right wing free market economics.


So who the child here

Br Cornelius

Yes.   Nah nah nah nah nah nah!   Again from you.

i think we know who the child is.

Right wing, left wing, etc....


It's just science.
Now, you're an" informed environmental scientist?"

Yea, I know.

Thank you for your time.



And by all means..have the last word again.  Repeat yourself, and accept the silence in response.

[Hilander]

I disagree that the government makes more off of oil/ natural gas than the companies do.  If the energy companies weren't making big bucks off of it they wouldn't be doing it.  I do believe a lot of the money made is used to pay lobbists to buy off government officials to make sure their interests come first.

[MID]

 Hilander, on 29 July 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I disagree that the government makes more off of oil/ natural gas than the companies do.  If the energy companies weren't making big bucks off of it they wouldn't be doing it.  I do believe a lot of the money made is used to pay lobbists to buy off government officials to make sure their interests come first.

You investigate how much tax to government (both federal and state/local) are included in the price of a gallon of gasoline and I think you'll rapidly understand.

Then, wnen you realize the regulatory nonsense attached to oil companies, which inhibit profits, and increase expenses, and then of course, rwealizwe the burden placed upon these companies by our Congress calling them all in to testify over nothing, you'll understand!

And, you'll understand what needs to be done to fix t!!


And fracking...that which has been done for a long time, for gas, and for water well enhancement, should'nt be scaring anyone.

Learn about it and you'll see that it's not a big deal...

Edited by MID, 29 July 2012 - 09:57 PM.