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Are angels real?


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Poll: Are angels real? (82 member(s) have cast votes)

Are angels real?

  1. Yes (55 votes [67.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.07%

  2. No (27 votes [32.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.93%

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#91    joc

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:37 AM

View PostRender, on 15 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Btw, in your lil angels, wall analogy .. that would mean the wall isn't really there but a mirage which only a "lucky few" can see. Thus disproving it's existence and limiting it to a state of illusion. Because not everyone sees angels , but everyone sees the real existing wall...get it? Probably not.

Anyway.. I for one certainly realise i've encountered a wall here, with you.
Science and reality just isn't your thing. You simply keep on making up these "analogies" that don't make any sense. Thinking that explains your point. It is funny though, gotta hand you that.
I would say quite the opposite..both science and reality are very much Mr. Walker's 'thing'.   How can you explain the magnetic force of water?  It is very real and yet, if you haven't encountered it, you most probably would think that is hogwash as well.  And yet...there it is...real as can be.  Have you ever encountered the magnetic force of water?

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once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#92    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostRender, on 15 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Btw, in your lil angels, wall analogy .. that would mean the wall isn't really there but a mirage which only a "lucky few" can see. Thus disproving it's existence and limiting it to a state of illusion. Because not everyone sees angels , but everyone sees the real existing wall...get it? Probably not.

Anyway.. I for one certainly realise i've encountered a wall here, with you.
Science and reality just isn't your thing. You simply keep on making up these "analogies" that don't make any sense. Thinking that explains your point. It is funny though, gotta hand you that.
You think it is I which doesnt get the analogy or reality? LOL.
You miss the point entirely. The wall is there. You cant walk through it. The angel is there. You can't walk through it.

I tis clear that you are assuming/inferring that angels are insubstantial/immaterial  or exist only within a perosns consciousness,The point i am making is that angels are as solid, and as physica,l as a wall, or you or I.

And i know as much science as any layman is likely to which, is quite enough for my purposes. I have an excellent reading ability intelligence and comprehension skills as well as a very comprehensive vocab i can read any piece of medicla and scienific literature and  generally understnadi t and how it fits into a wider schem of things  Anything i dont know and need to know, I can research. Given that i can read and comprehend a page of text as fast as I can turn the page, it doesnt take me long to learn new things.

I am sorry you dont comprehend my analogies, but i suspect you aren't really trying to because you dont want to, or else your mind is so set in its ways it cant think in a differnt way, or style/form. Ps not everyone sees walls. Blind people can't see them And any non blind person will see an angel if/when it appears in their vicinity, otherwise it is an hallucination. But angels do not always fully manifest.  Sometimes they come as light, sometimes as a voice, sometimes as an invisible force which pushes a person in the chest or throws them out of the road of a car train bus etc.  These are harder for witnesses to detect but the contextual evidences of their presence remain as physical evidence of their existence. For example a bruise on your chest where the invisible angel pushed you backwards, or a piece of knowledge that the angel has imparted which can be independently verified. Or, as in the case of a friend of mine, the complete disappeareance within a day or so, of an advanced and terminal cancer, after an angel appeared and told him it had removed the cancer and he would live for decades more.

The bloke didnt believe the angel because he was an atheist so he went to his specialist. All x rays etc confirmed that a large malignant cancer had totally disappeared, since the last tests.

The doctor asked him if anything unusual had happened to him. He described what had happened and the doctor responded, "I thought it might have been something like that."

The doctor had encountered a number of similar cases. Science puts this down to spontaneous remission, because it cant see any other explanation, although this case was rather spectacular,  but this specialist had encountered similar stories  about angelic encounters, and witnessed similar if less spectacular recoveries, and had an open mind.  Over twenty years later, my friend is still alive and well and has never had another cancer.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#93    Amalthe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

Maybe you should rephrase question:
What if tall radiant being towering shiny metallic purple armor ;) appears in front of you and tells you that you need to immediately abanon your home and family (for whatever reason) and go to 50 miles/km distant place to do something specific?

Would you, faced with undeniable visual proof, obey the being or would you question assignment he gave to you, or maybe question your own senses?


#94    Jor-el

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 15 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Maybe you should rephrase question:
What if tall radiant being towering shiny metallic purple armor ;) appears in front of you and tells you that you need to immediately abanon your home and family (for whatever reason) and go to 50 miles/km distant place to do something specific?

Would you, faced with undeniable visual proof, obey the being or would you question assignment he gave to you, or maybe question your own senses?

question, definitely!

Just because I and others accept and believe in the existence of angels, does not mean that we automatically accept anything they have to say... that could get you into big trouble listening to just any angel out there. They are not all on humanities side.

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-C. S. Lewis


#95    scowl

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 14 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

You are facing the difficulty/limitations of experiential knowledge. You have encountered a wall, and thus know it is real. Until you encounter god, or an angel, personally, you will always be forced into a belief position about their existence.

Why are you assuming I've never encountered an angel? I've seen one exactly as described in the Bible.


#96    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:12 PM

View Postscowl, on 15 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Why are you assuming I've never encountered an angel? I've seen one exactly as described in the Bible.

Because only Mr Walker sees angels  lol :P

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#97    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostAmalthe, on 15 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Maybe you should rephrase question:
What if tall radiant being towering shiny metallic purple armor ;) appears in front of you and tells you that you need to immediately abanon your home and family (for whatever reason) and go to 50 miles/km distant place to do something specific?

Would you, faced with undeniable visual proof, obey the being or would you question assignment he gave to you, or maybe question your own senses?
I would save, exit the game, and think seriously about my strategy.

In real life if the visual proof was undeniable it would depend on a, my other commitments at the time b, what precisely it asked me to do and c, what rationale/reason it gave.

Supposing the reason and the action was interesting, positive and challenging, I would probably do it just for the fun experience of it Eg save a damsel in distress, get an early bargain in the new years sale, find a lost treasure etc.

I actually did this sort of thing for about 10 years, sans the metallic figure. It was called geocaching

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#98    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

View Postscowl, on 15 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Why are you assuming I've never encountered an angel? I've seen one exactly as described in the Bible.
Then, given your other comments, this angel failed to convince you of its independent physical existence and solidity and was unable to exert a measurable influence on the rest of your reality.

I've never had an hallucination outside of medically induced ones, but I wouldnt be convinced by something that existed only in my mind, either.

If you had encountered a real physical angel, then you would know they are real and physical. That is only logical. If you encountered a "non physical" angel which has no independent verification or contextual evidences for its reality, then what you make of it, or believe about it, is up to you.

If you encountered a real physical angel and  still chose not to believe in its existence, then that is the equivalent of trying to walk through a wall because, although you can see it, you dont believe in it.

If you thought the entity was real but dont like calling it an angel, that is fine. Angel is just a name we attach to a certain form of entity.

Edited by Mr Walker, 15 January 2013 - 10:41 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#99    White Unicorn

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:45 AM

View Postscowl, on 15 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Why are you assuming I've never encountered an angel? I've seen one exactly as described in the Bible.

You were disillusioned seeker who said on another thread that you never experienced anything that couldn't be explained away as hoaxes of some sort or another but hoped to experience something some day.   Bible describes different kinds of messengers what type did you experience?


#100    Render

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 15 January 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

You think it is I which doesnt get the analogy or reality? LOL.
You miss the point entirely. The wall is there. You cant walk through it. The angel is there. You can't walk through it.

I am sorry you dont comprehend my analogies, but i suspect you aren't really trying to because you dont want to, or else your mind is so set in its ways it cant think in a differnt way, or style/form. Ps not everyone sees walls. Blind people can't see them And any non blind person will see an angel if/when it appears in their vicinity, otherwise it is an hallucination. But angels do not always fully manifest.  Sometimes they come as light, sometimes as a voice, sometimes as an invisible force which pushes a person in the chest or throws them out of the road of a car train bus etc.

It's very funny how you again think you are actually proving a point.
The blind don't see the wall, but the wall is still there. It doesn't disappear and re-appear for only a couple of ppl.
Angels aren't there , only if you have hallucinations. If you still don't understand how a wall and a angel have nothing in common there is no need to actually discuss anything with you.

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#101    scowl

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 15 January 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Then, given your other comments, this angel failed to convince you of its independent physical existence and solidity and was unable to exert a measurable influence on the rest of your reality.

No, it was real. It looked like a regular person but the Bible says that angels can look just like real people.

Quote

I've never had an hallucination outside of medically induced ones, but I wouldnt be convinced by something that existed only in my mind, either.

And you would know the difference... how?

Quote

If you had encountered a real physical angel, then you would know they are real and physical.

I don't know if it was physical. How would I know? I don't go running into walls to see if they're real! Only an idiot would do that!

Quote

If you encountered a real physical angel and  still chose not to believe in its existence,

Did I say I doubted it's existence? No. Please pay more attention.

Quote

then that is the equivalent of trying to walk through a wall because, although you can see it, you dont believe in it.

I did not test it's physical existence by shoving it or swinging a baseball bat at it. Who says angels have to be physical anyway? Nothing in the Bible.

Quote

If you thought the entity was real but dont like calling it an angel, that is fine. Angel is just a name we attach to a certain form of entity.

The definition of "angel" as a messenger of God is very clear in the Bible which you haven't read.


#102    scowl

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostWhite Unicorn, on 16 January 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

You were disillusioned seeker who said on another thread that you never experienced anything that couldn't be explained away as hoaxes of some sort or another but hoped to experience something some day.  

I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

Quote

Bible describes different kinds of messengers what type did you experience?

The one Cornelius described in Acts 10:30.


#103    Jor-el

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View Postscowl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

The one Cornelius described in Acts 10:30.

What exactly did he say?

Edited by Jor-el, 16 January 2013 - 11:15 PM.

Posted Image


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-C. S. Lewis


#104    White Unicorn

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:46 AM

View Postscowl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I think you have me mixed up with someone else.



The one Cornelius described in Acts 10:30.
My messenger remembers you well, you were wanting to believe in things supernatural such as fairies then became disappointed in discovering all the hoaxes out there.......you were still looking in the sky for UFOs  when you said this >>>>>  

Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

Posted Imagescowl, on 01 October 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

No, nothing will happen to me. I carry a camera (with video modes) with me at all times and I know how to use it. This prevents anything supernatural from happening to me.

I wouldn't say that prevents you at all. Don't give up hope in something you'd like to discover.
I  don't agree that  its better to pretend because then the real things go unresearched.
We really need more sceptic but open minded people like you out there with cameras :)

Lots of people have taken pictures but usually it doesn't mean anything except to them because only they and who ever was with them know it was a real "something". Maybe you are just looking for something that you might never find. I also don't agree that  its better to pretend because then the real things go unresearched.

Unexplained things seem to happen more to people when not looking for it. Maybe this is because they are not so intense and not looking for a specific something, so they actually observe more by not looking for something else in the wrong place. Don't want to be looking in the sky when something is behind you.

Just be open minded and when something does happen, I'm sure you will be the good sceptic that seeks the truth :)

You will also discover when you dig deeper into a personal experience you will learn more on your own and from others who share in similar ones. A domino effect can start to happen and you will have a lot more to deal with. When you get to that point it sometimes brings way more then you ever really wanted know!  Other times you may discover it wasn't anything or you will end up clueless. Even then its fun to do the research to discover what the real truth is :)

I do hope you see something some day and get a good video!

Edited by White Unicorn, 17 January 2013 - 04:52 AM.


#105    Mr Walker

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostRender, on 16 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

It's very funny how you again think you are actually proving a point.
The blind don't see the wall, but the wall is still there. It doesn't disappear and re-appear for only a couple of ppl.
Angels aren't there , only if you have hallucinations. If you still don't understand how a wall and a angel have nothing in common there is no need to actually discuss anything with you.

Posted Image

No.  The only problem is that you do not believe me. My point is that real angels are exactly as real and solid as a wall. Yes they may materialise and dematerialise but while materialised they have ALL the qualities of a physical entity or object.

You have it fixed in your mind that these are all hallucinations. That is just incorrect on the basis of the evidences available to a witness, but you have no evidence to convince you different, and you do not want to believe any different. CAn't blame you.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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