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Why do our Military Members get Welfare?


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#16    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

View PostCommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Not true. Actually when I got off of active duty I could not find a job. Many vets cannot find jobs. What makes you think it is any easier for the poor?

Here is the thing a lot of people do not understand about the military...not all of the jobs are that difficult. Maybe different jobs should get paid different amounts? Sure there were long days and tough situations but there were also people that worked in a dining facility for years and never deployed. Not everyone is special forces...

I just find it odd that no one complains about the way the military works as far as paying its troops. You want to cut the national debt, look at the military.

I don't know...I felt the pay on my deployments was good but that I was over-paid when I was not deployed...I also think I am ripping the government off with my disability pay...I guess maybe I do not give myself enough credit?

Many military jobs don't translate well to the civilian sector. Such as my old job: COMSEC Accountant. And for those (particularly civilian's) who've never heard of it before, no it doesn't have anything to do with money.

Civilian jobs are paid, for the most part, on hourly work performed. Anything over 40 usually being overtime. In the military, you're effectively on-call 24/7 the whole year, whether you want to be or not and at the rate for your pay-grade, period. So there's no real equivalency in comparing the two.

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#17    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

View Postpraetorian-legio XIII, on 21 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

OK kid, you've stated your opinion that our military personnel are over paid, which is your right and I respect that, but at least pay enough attention to your own posts so as not to confuse yourself.

You sure like throwing the insults. I never meant to offend anyone. Maybe if you used proper abbreviation, I could understand what you are saying...

View Postcormac mac airt, on 21 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Many military jobs don't translate well to the civilian sector. Such as my old job: COMSEC Accountant. And for those (particularly civilian's) who've never heard of it before, no it doesn't have anything to do with money.

Civilian jobs are paid, for the most part, on hourly work performed. Anything over 40 usually being overtime. In the military, you're effectively on-call 24/7 the whole year, whether you want to be or not and at the rate for your pay-grade, period. So there's no real equivalency in comparing the two.

cormac

Well I understand that many military jobs do not translate...but many do, especially the jobs I had. And either way, the military teaches disipline and leadership, which should be a big part of any job...

I understand what you are saying about not being able to compare the military jobs to civilian jobs, but you can for most non-deployed active duty personel. Sure, I worked 6 and 1s, 12 hour days when I was deployed, but at my home base I worked 8.5 hour days, 5 days a week. Of course we are paid 24/7, and they did dick with you every once in a while...but for the most part it was like a normal work week that you would have in the civilian world.

Let's be honest...many of the jobs I did were not $45K a year jobs...But hey, maybe I am just selling myself short...

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#18    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostCommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

You sure like throwing the insults. I never meant to offend anyone. Maybe if you used proper abbreviation, I could understand what you are saying...



Well I understand that many military jobs do not translate...but many do, especially the jobs I had. And either way, the military teaches disipline and leadership, which should be a big part of any job...

I understand what you are saying about not being able to compare the military jobs to civilian jobs, but you can for most non-deployed active duty personel. Sure, I worked 6 and 1s, 12 hour days when I was deployed, but at my home base I worked 8.5 hour days, 5 days a week. Of course we are paid 24/7, and they did dick with you every once in a while...but for the most part it was like a normal work week that you would have in the civilian world.

Let's be honest...many of the jobs I did were not $45K a year jobs...But hey, maybe I am just selling myself short...

Must have been nice. Try 3 day shifts, 3 swings, 3 mids and then 2 days off only to repeat the cycle. And as an E-4 I didn't make anywhere near what they make now. I earned what pay and benefits I got.

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#19    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:47 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 21 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Must have been nice. Try 3 day shifts, 3 swings, 3 mids and then 2 days off only to repeat the cycle. And as an E-4 I didn't make anywhere near what they make now. I earned what pay and benefits I got.

cormac

Sounds like a crappy time. I guess people missed the point that I was trying to make about not all military jobs being equal...Many jobs do earn their pay, but many do not...IMO

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#20    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

View PostCommunitarianKevin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Sounds like a crappy time. I guess people missed the point that I was trying to make about not all military jobs being equal...Many jobs do earn their pay, but many do not...IMO

I took it the way it came across, at least to me. Namely it sounded like a piss-n-moan session about how bad the military is because of what benefits members receive. BTW, I'm ex-Air Force. Served from 82-88. I'd really like to have gotten paid what they get paid now. Must be nice.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#21    aztek

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 21 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Very simple, if you cut the pay and benefits good luck finding anybody to do that ****ty job. If I have the choice of flipping burgers and joining the Forces for the same pay I wind up with an tennis arm.
B.S.
ppl that join military do it not for the money, but you would not understand.

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#22    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 21 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

I took it the way it came across, at least to me. Namely it sounded like a piss-n-moan session about how bad the military is because of what benefits members receive. BTW, I'm ex-Air Force. Served from 82-88. I'd really like to have gotten paid what they get paid now. Must be nice.

cormac

It was more of a piss and moan session about people attitudes towards those that get food stamps or what Mitt Romney calls the 47%. Military members would fall into the 47% but yet people seem to have no problem with them getting money. Sorry if I sounded anti-military. I just think it is kind of hypocritical that we pick and choose when it is okay to get extra from the government. I guess I wouldn't have as much of an issue if that pay was just built into the salary. I mean of course I am not anti-military...I have been in for almost 9 years...

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#23    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

View PostCommunitarianKevin, on 22 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

It was more of a piss and moan session about people attitudes towards those that get food stamps or what Mitt Romney calls the 47%. Military members would fall into the 47% but yet people seem to have no problem with them getting money. Sorry if I sounded anti-military. I just think it is kind of hypocritical that we pick and choose when it is okay to get extra from the government. I guess I wouldn't have as much of an issue if that pay was just built into the salary. I mean of course I am not anti-military...I have been in for almost 9 years...

The only problem I have with those on food stamps is that those receiving them should have to take a piss test. Most do to get a job, food stamp applicants should be no different. Also NO alcohol, NO tobacco products nor any other items that could be considered 'luxury items' should be paid for with that help. As to the military, extra pay built into the salary doesn't sound bad to me. All in all though, today's troups are still getting better paid than we ever did. About time IMO.

As to Romney, he got what was coming to him regardless of who he was running against. Spoon-fed elitist.

cormac

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#24    aztek

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 22 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Also NO alcohol, NO tobacco products nor any other items that could be considered 'luxury items' should be paid for with that help.
that is how it is  and always been, on paper, i used to work in food store, but sometimes cashiers close their eyes and take food stamps for none food items.

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#25    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 22 November 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

The only problem I have with those on food stamps is that those receiving them should have to take a piss test. Most do to get a job, food stamp applicants should be no different. Also NO alcohol, NO tobacco products nor any other items that could be considered 'luxury items' should be paid for with that help. As to the military, extra pay built into the salary doesn't sound bad to me. All in all though, today's troups are still getting better paid than we ever did. About time IMO.

As to Romney, he got what was coming to him regardless of who he was running against. Spoon-fed elitist.

cormac

I agree with you 100% The one good idea that I ever heard from a Republican was a drug test for those on food stamps. They proposed it Florida, but apparently they did not impliment it because it would cost more to drug test everyone...That means 1 of 2 things...either drug testing is WAY too expensive, or not that many people on food stamps actually do drugs. I mean (in my state at least) you need to have a job to get food stamps...they probably had to pass 1 drug test...
I do get pissed off when people use food stamps to buy food and then get smokes and lottery tickets...but what are you going to do? You cannot control how people spend their cash...But the truth of the matter is that people are going to abuse a system, whether they are rich or poor. Screw those people though. We need things like food stamps for the people that do need them.

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#26    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

View Postaztek, on 22 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

that is how it is  and always been, on paper, i used to work in food store, but sometimes cashiers close their eyes and take food stamps for none food items.

here when they do it they can only get cold food with their EBT card. They cannot get non-food items and they cannot get hot food. But there is nothing stopping them from using their EBT card for food and cash to buy the other stuff...

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#27    aztek

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

View PostCommunitarianKevin, on 22 November 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

But there is nothing stopping them from using their EBT card for food and cash to buy the other stuff...

there are tricks that scammers do to get cash, with ebt card, but i wont go into that here.

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#28    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

View Postaztek, on 22 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

there are tricks that scammers do to get cash, with ebt card, but i wont go into that here.

Oh...well I am not aware of them...doesn't suprise me though...but hey, rich people stash millions of dollars in off-shore bank accounts so they will not be taxed on it...same thing IMO.

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#29    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

View Postaztek, on 22 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

that is how it is  and always been, on paper, i used to work in food store, but sometimes cashiers close their eyes and take food stamps for none food items.

And that's part of the problem. It ought to be enforced by businesses accepting food stamps. If the cashiers are found to be turning their heads, then they've effectively quit their jobs. They should be terminated on the spot.

CommunitarianKevin:

Quote

You cannot control how people spend their cash.

True, but what they use their food stamps on CAN AND SHOULD be enforced. As to drug testing, if they fail the test they THEY should have to pay for it directly. If they pass, then it should be taken from their allotment over some specified period. It's a win-win situation IMO.

A possible way around getting cash back from food stamps IMO would be put their allotment on a debit-type card with no change being given in return. They either have what they need on the card or they do without.

cormac

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#30    Alienated Being

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:09 AM

I don't believe that they get paid enough, especially since the government is using them to work with their own agenda.





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