Disembodied Voice Posted February 10, 2010 #1 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Possession: Mental illness or Demonic attack. What's your view? I have experienced a lot of things that people would say I was possessed when in fact it was only my bi-polar and I wasn't on meds at the time. Also what if you don't believe in god or the devil and you actually become "possessed" by an entity? Would christan prayer really help? Demons come from many religions. So whats the right way to do the exorcism? Who knows. Is it just mind over matter, for example if you believe in something so much does it in fact become real? What are your views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted February 10, 2010 #2 Share Posted February 10, 2010 mental illness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlyn Posted February 10, 2010 #3 Share Posted February 10, 2010 There is no reason in this century to confuse any mental disorder with demonic possession. If there is such a thing as demonic possession, then the sufferer should display powers such as xenoglossy, telepathy, telekinesis, and levitation, to name a few. These criteria do not overlap with those of any mental disorder. Therefore, differential diagnosis should be a snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Sounds Posted February 10, 2010 #4 Share Posted February 10, 2010 mental illness then the sufferer should display powers such as xenoglossy, telepathy, telekinesis, and levitation, to name a few. am I the only one who finds it funny that these are also things that are associated with saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Onyx~ Posted February 10, 2010 #5 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I just can't buy the phenomena of actual, authentic, demonic possession. I mean, considering how long Kool(Satan) And The Gang have been around, you would think..if it was an authentic phenomena...they would have devised a better way to corrupt humanity, therefore ensuring it's souls for The Ruler Of The Whorey Neitherworld, than to singularly occupy a boarderline meth-head in Pigeon Forge, Tennesee.....Unless....We're all just being luled in to a false sense of security...Which would be demonically-clever, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzard Posted February 10, 2010 #6 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Mental illness is the only thing that we know exists. The rest is a bunch of unscientific nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munroe Falls Paranormal Posted February 10, 2010 #7 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Possession: Mental illness or Demonic attack. What's your view? I have experienced a lot of things that people would say I was possessed when in fact it was only my bi-polar and I wasn't on meds at the time. Also what if you don't believe in god or the devil and you actually become "possessed" by an entity? Would christan prayer really help? Demons come from many religions. So whats the right way to do the exorcism? Who knows. Is it just mind over matter, for example if you believe in something so much does it in fact become real? What are your views? Demonic possession is extremely rare, the more common answer to possession cases tend to lean towards psychological problems, drug and/or alcohol problems and mis-identification of a human spirit encounter. Even in most modern alleged cases of demon possession there is little to no proof that it was a demonic attack. I am not saying that it has never occurred nor am I saying that it cannot, just that it is a rare occurrence. TV and Film have sensationalized the demonic haunting and possession of an individual because its scary and gets ratings! Many in modern day society have been subject to a false notion that demonic attacks happen frequently when they do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlyn Posted February 10, 2010 #8 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Demonic possession is extremely rare, the more common answer to possession cases tend to lean towards psychological problems, drug and/or alcohol problems and mis-identification of a human spirit encounter. It's extremely rare? Really? At what rate does it occur in the general population? I must have missed that issue of MMWR. Even in most modern alleged cases of demon possession there is little to no proof that it was a demonic attack. What exactly would constitute such proof? I'm being facetious and asking silly rhetorical questions to make a number of points all at once. It is easier to make those points with jokes and needling than by launching into a tedious treatise on things like DSM categories and comparative religion. So I hope I'll be forgiven for clowning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eolwyn Posted February 10, 2010 #9 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think possibly, possession occurs when a person is surrounded by misery, and is so lost or empty that there becomes a void in their soul. Once the void is open, the negative energy is a calling to demons or eveil spirits, and they feed off of the person until the person no longer resists, and then they inhabit the empty space in the soul. Of course this is just a theory for IF possession can occur. I know a spirit can enter a body, because I've had it happen and seen it happen, however the spirits were not bad, and only wanted to convey a message, shortly afterwards they left the body, returning the thought processes to the owner. I'm not sure if demonic possession would work the same way,and perhaps the demon would simply permanently inhabit the body as a means of torture or living off of the human misery. I have no idea, but I have never seen or heard of a REAL on media embellished case of demonic possession...movies don't count... WHY isn't there a syllabus with guidelines and hints for this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadetak Posted February 10, 2010 #10 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's mental illness. If you meet somebody and believe the are possessed by demons they are not...they need to be taken to a hospital. Anything less is simply irresponsible...prayer and holy water won't do a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinewave Posted February 10, 2010 #11 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'll say mental illness but a person's belief in demons can complicate the situation. Likewise, belief can be leveraged to exorcise a demon. The cause can provide it's own remedy if handled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignus Fatuus Posted February 10, 2010 #12 Share Posted February 10, 2010 There is no reason in this century to confuse any mental disorder with demonic possession. If there is such a thing as demonic possession, then the sufferer should display powers such as xenoglossy, telepathy, telekinesis, and levitation, to name a few. These criteria do not overlap with those of any mental disorder. Therefore, differential diagnosis should be a snap. If you would have added extra human strength, I would include Diabetic seizures. These seizures have been blamed on demons before. Mine for example the other day included: spitting, cursing, blood spurtting from my mouth, as well as extra strength. The first seizure that I had in college is one such tale. Spitting, cursing, blood gushing from my mouth ... the night watchman of the dorm I lived in told me that this was his second opinion on the matter after drugs. He believed it was drugs until he recognized me and knowing me well he realized that this was not the case. Just the other day after my wreck, it took nine persons to be able to strap me in .... then I broke the straps and they had to then double strap me so to get me to the hospital. Many physical conditions could cause an opinion such as between this and demonic posession ... all it takes is a little ignorance, mixed with some flight or fight. Being 6ft 3 inches and 250 pounds did not make the matter easier for them either. I have scared the hell out of many in my days ... and I am about as non violent as they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplos Posted February 10, 2010 #13 Share Posted February 10, 2010 am I the only one who finds it funny that these are also things that are associated with saints Well, saints are essentially possessed with God, right? Isn't that the dealio with saints? I'd say mental illness 99.99999999% of the time. I believe in paranormal things so have one tiny flap on my mind open to the idea that there may be such a thing as possession, but I've never heard of anything anywhere near proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eolwyn Posted February 10, 2010 #14 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Ha! nice comment about the Saints. there is a good and evil in everything...even possession I suppose....the polarities of the world are simply amazing. I don't think anything currently classified as unexplained will ever be explained, because I don't think we are meant to know. Not for certain anyway. I believe in the paranormal fully, because it is real to me and I have seen it firsthand, yet I'm not sure if I believe in demonic possession. There is a certain purity to the human soul that I think is too much for an evil spirit to come into contact with....of course I am contradicting my previous post, but there are so many possibilities and things that I do not yet know, that I feel there are many explanations, and after all, they ARE just theories. Certainly some cases of psychosis were probably misdiagnosed by some puritan nutcase from the early 1800's, but can you blame them? As humans we fear the unknown... meaning we also reject anything we cannot prove. I say, remain a skeptic about everything but do not discredit it. Think of how amazing the world is and the expansive unending galaxies and space...is anything really that hard to fathom in comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGhost_and_theDarkness Posted February 11, 2010 #15 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I think, if I were a demon, I'd be a bit more picky about those I chose to possess. I mean, the whole point of being a demon is causing destruction and pain, right? Now, with this world as it is, there are so many prime pickings for a successful possession. Some random woman from a town no one has ever heard of would just seem ridiculous. Why not go for the guy in power that can ruin countless lives? Why destroy only one person if you have the chance to destroy thousands? Or even millions? Something tells me that if these so called "possessions" were caused by demons on my watch, they'd have some serious explaining to do. Of course the above is all musing on my part, because I don't believe in demons. I'd say its all psychological. Back down to either some sort of mental unbalance or what I like to refer to as "berserker mode". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolipopkid Posted February 11, 2010 #16 Share Posted February 11, 2010 What would make you think they would want to destroy the world? What makes anyone think they are after humans in the first place? Would it not be God they wished to interfere with? What does God love? Wouldn't this be a more proper way to think of it? Why would they go after a woman who is enveloped in faith? The answer is right there if you really want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonjoNashiPirate Posted February 11, 2010 #17 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Can't say for sure but I would think you just had a bout with mental illness. For example. my mom used to claim that she would hear demons whisper to her at night and say her name. She also said she had a dream before that there were demons dragging me off and had cut off one of my breasts. Yeah weird I know. My mom is a bipolar schizophrenic. But why didn't she claim she just heard human voices in her head? Why demons? She's Hispanic and has always been a strong believer in Catholicism. I'm just making a general statement by saying this but a lot of Hispanics are deeply devoted to Catholicism. So that's where the psychological aspect comes into it. I do believe that it is mind over matter sometimes. If you believe in something enough it can make it real. As for demonic possession responding to christian prayer, I suppose that to believe in demons you have to believe in God. So if you claim to believe in one then it seems logical to believe in the other. If Christianity is the true correct faith then it would make sense for demons to respond to Christian prayer. There are different demon legends in different parts of the world. From a Christian perspective a person has to be praying in name of Jesus to have some effect. Technically the prayers of people from religions other than Christianity wouldn't be able to ward off demon attacks or possession. From a Christian perspective again if someone told another Christian that there were some Muslims who prayed to their God to fend off an attack and were saved, the Christian would say the prayer worked because God had mercy on them because they are lost since they believe in a false god. Or someone could counter argue that with a mind over matter theory. Supposedly demons take possession of weak willed people or people who are having a lot of difficulties at the moment and make use of that mental stress. So taking into account mind over matter again, if a non Christian prayed and truly believed their prayer would work against a demon it just may because they believe it completely. That's my .02 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marby Posted February 11, 2010 #18 Share Posted February 11, 2010 All evidence points directly to mental illness, chronic or temporary, illicit or prescription drug use, and the power of suggestion. While demonic myth exists outside of Christianity, not everyone believes in demons and only those that do, claim to have been possessed or believe that someone has been possessed. You rarely, if ever, see a case of possession in cultures and within belief systems where demons do not exist. There is no solid evidence that we can hold up as proof for demonic possession. All we have are unsubstantiated claims, outright lies, non scientific speculation, and again, the power of suggestion. Any case you look at can and will produce a perfectly rational explanation that does not involve demons. The myth of demonic possession is perpetuated by those that have no real respect for actual science, and those who have something to gain from it. It's far sexier to be possessed by Beelzebub than it is to have a psychotic break. It makes a lot of money for charlatans like the Warrens, authors, and film makers. It also gives religious organizations something to crow about to keep their followers from straying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jon Posted February 11, 2010 #19 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Possession: Mental illness or Demonic attack. What's your view? I have experienced a lot of things that people would say I was possessed when in fact it was only my bi-polar and I wasn't on meds at the time. Also what if you don't believe in god or the devil and you actually become "possessed" by an entity? Would christan prayer really help? Demons come from many religions. So whats the right way to do the exorcism? Who knows. Is it just mind over matter, for example if you believe in something so much does it in fact become real? What are your views? I think christians belive that prayer helps all, even those that don't share in what they belive, so regardless of a nonbeliver thinking they helped via their prayers, christians belive they have helped them. I belive its mental illness, but who knows . There is no reason in this century to confuse any mental disorder with demonic possession.If there is such a thing as demonic possession, then the sufferer should display powers such as xenoglossy, telepathy, telekinesis, and levitation, to name a few.These criteria do not overlap with those of any mental disorder.Therefore, differential diagnosis should be a snap. Why should they display this? there is no real proof that demonic prossessions are real let alone what the symptoms are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGhost_and_theDarkness Posted February 12, 2010 #20 Share Posted February 12, 2010 What would make you think they would want to destroy the world? What makes anyone think they are after humans in the first place? Would it not be God they wished to interfere with? What does God love? Wouldn't this be a more proper way to think of it? Why would they go after a woman who is enveloped in faith? The answer is right there if you really want it. Causing destruction and pain doesn't equal destroying the world. The problem with that is some "demon possessions" happen with people who aren't particularly religious. They may have grown up in strict religious households, but they themselves aren't really involved. They've even happened to people who weren't even really good people. If they wanted to stick it to God, they could do much better than that. Destroying faith in God would be, I would presume, what they would really love. So why attack people so directly, in a way that would strengthen faith in the people around that person? In my opinion, the most evil things are often the things that are done quietly and work gradually on many people, not something drastic that affects only a few (and affects them in a way contradictory to what a demon would want.) Then, as Konjo said, a person with a mental illness that is highly religious would likely see things from a different perspective than a mentally ill person who isn't religious. The mind is a very complex place. When things start happening, such as hearing voices, the first thing even a sick brain would try to do is rationalize it in whatever way possible. Even if the best rationalization is demons. Even non-religious persons could be subject to this, but a religious person is at much higher risk. A person with schizophrenia can not comprehend the fact that the voices are coming from their own head. I knew a girl with schizophrenia. It was very hard for me to understand where she was coming from when she talked about the voices she heard. As far as I could understand, the voices were no different than the internal dialogue that we all have. Yet, she could not grasp this concept. To her, they had to be coming from someone or something else. She had reached the conclusion that it must be demons speaking to her. She was not a very religious person, but she had convinced herself that, of all the creatures she had heard of through stories and whatnot, only demons could or would do this to her. And she didn't even have major schizophrenia. . .hers was mild compared to most. This is different from schizophrenics that actually hear things audibly, not just internally. That's a whole different slice of pie, but the rationalizations of the sick person are generally similar to those that "hear" internal dialogue. I have never seen a case of demon possession where either a physical or mental illness weren't what was truly behind it. Again, I don't believe in demons, nor have I ever. If I did or ever had, my opinions would probably be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolipopkid Posted February 12, 2010 #21 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I do not believe that all possession cases are actual possession, I would think that most are just mental disorders of some sort. I do think that there have been cases that were more than just mental disorders, but they are more extreme than just hearing voices and such. I also believe that demonic oppression is more prevalent than possession. This can alter a persons world in a less intrusive manner. I also think that anyone who fears they are having any demonic issue is scared whether it is mental or paranormal and both need support as much as the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamlyn Posted February 12, 2010 #22 Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Why should they display this? there is no real proof that demonic prossessions are real let alone what the symptoms are. I said if they are real, not that they are real. Proof doesn't enter into it. The point is that there is NO reason, none, to confuse any mental disorder described by psychiatry with "demonic possession." For example, there is no reason to look at a person suffering from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depression, etc. and suppose that they are suffering from anything other than a mental disorder. Why would anyone look at a person with disordered thoughts or distressing feelings and suppose "demons?" Unless he was going around cursing Jesus, levitating, and stating in Latin that his name is Legion. Stuff like that. Any confusion between possession and mental illness in the year 2010 results from pure silliness. Edited February 12, 2010 by Hamlyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorto Posted February 13, 2010 #23 Share Posted February 13, 2010 i believe in demon possessions and demons, they do more than just possess people. i also believe mental illness exists. but you cant mix up the 2. most of the time mental illness is very different from demon possession and you can tell the difference between the 2. my religous faith does not believe demons possess people, but i have a real life case of demon possession in my family. its not mental illness and never will be, its real paranormal things there is a psychiatrist who documented a case of demon possession in the usa in 2007. the woman levitated and 8 people including the psychiatrist witnessed it its in a medical journal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybele Posted February 14, 2010 #24 Share Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) All evidence points directly to mental illness, chronic or temporary, illicit or prescription drug use, and the power of suggestion. The power of suggestion is very important, perhaps even more so than the first factors you mention because deeply embedded cultural and religious beliefs, as well as our expectations in general, can shape our interpretations of day to day experiences. I think this is of the utmost importance to consider when trying to study any supposedly paranormal phenomena. Many people have pointed out that mental illness can lead a person to believe they are demonically possessed (or at least appear to be so to others), but I don't think diseases are always necessarily invovled. In certain shamanic cultures people purposefully put themselves into trances with the intent of being possessed by spirits both good and bad. To these people, possession may be restricted to ritual settings; they are otherwise totally normal, well functioning members of their society. Edited February 14, 2010 by Cybele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybele Posted February 14, 2010 #25 Share Posted February 14, 2010 there is a psychiatrist who documented a case of demon possession in the usa in 2007. the woman levitated and 8 people including the psychiatrist witnessed it its in a medical journal I'd like to see your reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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