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Japanese mayor: wartime sex slaves necessary


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#61    Lava_Lady

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:27 PM

It's about the degradation of the "enemy", power.

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#62    Euphorbia

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:33 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 15 May 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Worth it ?

Think of it as it dropping Fat Boy on Manhattan with only old men, women and children there to see the flash close up ....

Worth what to who ?

Is this what Justice means to you ? Slaughter Peter to pay for Paul ?

I am not pleading for the criminals ... only for the innocents, you don't wipe out an entire race to ease a troubled mind ...
it never works , ask little Adolf



~edit : the trouble with posting at 3.30am

Yes, I think it was worth it. My father (A Marine that volunteered at 17), fought the Japanese during WW2 in the Philippines and was at Okinawa.

Had we not bombed Japan, we would have had to put a lot of boots on the ground there and we would have lost a lot more soldiers. My father more than likely would have been one of them and had he set foot on Japanese soil, I and my siblings might not be here.

War is hell and my father saw a lot of atrocities while over there and all before the age of twenty.

The Japanese emperor and his military had to go, and by whatever means we had to save our own lives. When it comes to us vs. them, I'll take US every time.

We took out two cities.......not an entire race. That was what it took to end the Japanese emperor's madness!

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

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#63    third_eye

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostEuphorbia, on 19 May 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Yes, I think it was worth it. My father (A Marine that volunteered at 17), fought the Japanese during WW2 in the Philippines and was at Okinawa.

Had we not bombed Japan, we would have had to put a lot of boots on the ground there and we would have lost a lot more soldiers. My father more than likely would have been one of them and had he set foot on Japanese soil, I and my siblings might not be here.

War is hell and my father saw a lot of atrocities while over there and all before the age of twenty.

The Japanese emperor and his military had to go, and by whatever means we had to save our own lives. When it comes to us vs. them, I'll take US every time.

We took out two cities.......not an entire race. That was what it took to end the Japanese emperor's madness!



They lied to you to make you feel better .......

The atom bombs were unnecessary at that stage of the war ... Japan were in no position to continue any form of aggression, it was the 'unconditional surrender' that the US demanded that was being negotiated, the atom bombs was just show boating for the Soviets .... a crime against humanity and the mother earth.

Not to mention it being the catalyst for the cold war arms race which meant shipping more of the 'boots' on the ground off to fill unmarked shallow graves far far away from home. How many more of your father's friends, siblings of, children of and relatives of were lost after this atom bombs were dropped ?
They just died later and some very soon after, just in another form of 'war',  so you can't say the atomic bombs 'saved' more lives can you ? I mean seriously ?

The madness was equally shared.

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#64    pallidin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:59 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 19 May 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

They lied to you to make you feel better .......

The atom bombs were unnecessary at that stage of the war ... Japan were in no position to continue any form of aggression, it was the 'unconditional surrender' that the US demanded that was being negotiated, the atom bombs was just show boating for the Soviets .... a crime against humanity and the mother earth.

Not to mention it being the catalyst for the cold war arms race which meant shipping more of the 'boots' on the ground off to fill unmarked shallow graves far far away from home. How many more of your father's friends, siblings of, children of and relatives of were lost after this atom bombs were dropped ?
They just died later and some very soon after, just in another form of 'war',  so you can't say the atomic bombs 'saved' more lives can you ? I mean seriously ?

The madness was equally shared.

My understanding(could be wrong) is that the nuclear bombs did, in fact save lives(of course they killed)

From what I've heard, a physical invasion by US forces was indeed contemplated, and in the works, but determined to result in a horrific blood-bath, as the Japanese fighters were well known as ruthless, unrelenting warriors.

Without nuclear intervention, the Japanese simply would not have given-up, potentially resulting in many, many more deaths than the nuclear bombs did.

That's my take on it anyway.

Edited by pallidin, 20 May 2013 - 04:19 AM.


#65    third_eye

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:12 AM

View Postpallidin, on 20 May 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

My understanding(could be wrong) is that the nuclear bombs did, in fact save lives(of course they killed)

From what I've heard, a physical invasion by US forces was indeed contemplated, and in the works, but determined to result in a horrific blood-bath, as the Japanese fighters were well known as ruthless, unrelenting warriors.

Without nuclear intervention, the Japanese simply would not have given-up, potentially resulting in many, many more deaths than the nuclear bombs did.

That's my take on it anyway.

And that is what they told everyone.... now we know better .... Japan has never been invaded before in their history prior to WW2 ... what most poeple knows about Japan is practically nothing but what they thought was all that they knew. The kamikaze warriors at the end of days wasn't just a show of ruthlessness, it was desperation.
Now we know more of why.

Look don;t just take it from me ... do a bit of knowing more than what we were told of those years ... resources are a plenty ... it makes us all the better for it and not detracting anything from what we are or what we were. If anything it will make us all better for what we will be... with hopes a plenty.

link : Trove digitised Newspapers and more

link : The Cost of the Bomb, The Cost of Slave Labor: Mutual Apology and Compensation as a Way to Address U.S. and Japanese Atrocities from World War II  (pdf resouces available here)

link : Hiroshima the Holocaust,and the Politics of Exclusion (pdf file)

Or if you're more into novels : The real last samurai : wiki link

Quote

The novel was shortlisted for the 2002 International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award and the Los Angeles Times’ 2001 Art Seidenbaum Award for First Fiction, and was longlisted for the 2001 Orange Prize for Fiction (it made the men's jury's controversial shortlist[1]).



Quote

The Nazi holocaust has been studied extensively around the world. As a result, no politician would dare to recommend gas ovens and ethnic cleansing as a solution to any problem. If the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were adequately studied, the same would be true for the “nuclear option.The Nazi holocaust has been studied extensively around the world. As a result, no politician would dare to recommend gas ovens and ethnic cleansing as a solution to any problem. If the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were adequately studied, the same would be true for the “nuclear option.”



link and the Peace Declaration link



There should be no such thing as a 'nuclear' option .... ever again.

Posted Image

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#66    FLOMBIE

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

It does sound like the winner's propaganda, pallidin. You could ask the question: Whose lives did it save? Certainly not the Japanese.


#67    pallidin

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 20 May 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

It does sound like the winner's propaganda, pallidin. You could ask the question: Whose lives did it save? Certainly not the Japanese.

Again, my understanding is that MUCH more lives, Japanese and Americans, would have been killed if not for the "end-of-war" nukes.

So, indeed, both unfathonable amounts of Japanese and American lives were saved by those nuclear bombs...

Without the nukes, it would have been a very, very bloody mess far, far beyond what the nukes did.

Just my opinion, of course.


#68    FLOMBIE

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:36 AM

But it's basically only an assumption, and in my opinion one that tries to cast a positive light on the bombings.
What about the civilian casulties? That is the biggest problem I have with this: While Pearl Harbor was a shocking event, it still was a military target, while Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not at all. They chose these two cities because they were mostly undamaged, so they could see the effectiveness of the A-bombs.

Edit: My opinion: The Japanese were human guinea pigs

Edited by FLOMBIE, 20 May 2013 - 09:20 AM.


#69    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:12 AM

View Postpallidin, on 20 May 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:



My understanding(could be wrong) is that the nuclear bombs did, in fact save lives(of course they killed)

From what I've heard, a physical invasion by US forces was indeed contemplated, and in the works, but determined to result in a horrific blood-bath, as the Japanese fighters were well known as ruthless, unrelenting warriors.

Without nuclear intervention, the Japanese simply would not have given-up, potentially resulting in many, many more deaths than the nuclear bombs did.

That's my take on it anyway.

As I said previously ,my uncle explained it to me in this way as well . He told me things that I don't think are in books. Like the secret underground bases inside mountains ,and biological weapons bases etc.
I think .....some sort of intervention was necessary,but I'm not sure ...this was it .

They werent going to stop,and ground warfare was discussed ,and decided against .

They were,as soldiers relentless . You look at stories like Iwojima ,and the Yamato ,and those men were soldiers,on missions .
The women worked in factories too. Checked and rechecking equipment ,before it was sent out to the men .
Many died of illness doing it ,from long hours in poor conditions.
The people were doing their duty .
However,there still is a royal family . They didnt go anywhere ,they just carry true figurehead title now ,and the PM is completely in charge.
Even the UK royalty have more presence and say in the govt.
And the royal princess was totally screwed out of her title ,because of the usual chauvanism .


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#70    Euphorbia

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:18 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 19 May 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

They lied to you to make you feel better .......

Whatever.........the fact that my father survived the war and that I'm alive and that I have a son, siblings, nieces, nephews, etc. does make me feel better.....

Quote

The atom bombs were unnecessary at that stage of the war ... Japan were in no position to continue any form of aggression, it was the 'unconditional surrender' that the US demanded that was being negotiated, the atom bombs was just show boating for the Soviets .... a crime against humanity and the mother earth.

And yet the Japanese were still being aggressive. You can give your opinion and links that agree with your opinion, but I'm sure I could find links that will agree with my position if I looked for them.

Quote

Not to mention it being the catalyst for the cold war arms race which meant shipping more of the 'boots' on the ground off to fill unmarked shallow graves far far away from home. How many more of your father's friends, siblings of, children of and relatives of were lost after this atom bombs were dropped ?
They just died later and some very soon after, just in another form of 'war',  so you can't say the atomic bombs 'saved' more lives can you ? I mean seriously ?

We had no way of knowing there would be an arms race (The cold war), or to what extent it would go to at the time. We were just trying to end the war.

Quote

The madness was equally shared.

War has that effect.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

Separation of corporation and state!

#71    third_eye

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostEuphorbia, on 20 May 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:


~snip

We had no way of knowing there would be an arms race (The cold war), or to what extent it would go to at the time. We were just trying to end the war.

~snip


They knew ... they wanted to win that race ... regardless of the cost which they regarded as negligible ... it was to make the world 'safe' for the likes of you and your descendants.


Quote

... does make me feel better.....



Tell that to to these Americans ....

Posted Image

wiki link

Posted Image

wiki link

spare a thought and prayer for those lost here on that day too ....

Posted Image

wiki link

Quote

Hiroshima Peace Memorial (広島平和記念碑 Hiroshima heiwa kinenhi?), commonly called the Atomic Bomb Dome or Genbaku Dōmu (原爆ドーム?, A-Bomb Dome), in Hiroshima, Japan, is part of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park and was designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1996. The ruin serves as a memorial to the people who were killed in the atomic bombing of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945. Over 70,000 people were killed instantly, and another 70,000 suffered fatal injuries from the radiation.[1]

140,000 old men women and children most if not all of them .... how long do you think it would take the 'mighty' and noble US Army would take to slaughter this many aggressive Japanese and how many more boots or soldiers on the ground would have been lost ?

As many as the Korean and Vietnam combined if not more ?

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#72    Euphorbia

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 04:49 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 20 May 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

They knew ... they wanted to win that race ... regardless of the cost which they regarded as negligible ... it was to make the world 'safe' for the likes of you and your descendants.

OK, they might have known there would be some kind of arms race war, but how would they know exactly what would happen and to what extent in the future?

Quote

Tell that to to these Americans ....

spare a thought and prayer for those lost here on that day too ....

Believe me, I've thought about all that have died in that war and all the other wars of the past. Do you believe that I am  insensitive? I would love to see all wars cease and that no wars would ever start again, but I don't see that as happening.

I do spare a thought, but I don't pray.......I'm not a religious man.

Quote

140,000 old men women and children most if not all of them .... how long do you think it would take the 'mighty' and noble US Army would take to slaughter this many aggressive Japanese and how many more boots or soldiers on the ground would have been lost ?

As many as the Korean and Vietnam combined if not more ?

I'm sorry, but this was a war. I'm sorry that civilians were killed, but I still think the bombings were necessary to stop the war.

Not trying to start a war here (Pun intended), but we just have different opinions on the matter, so I'll just leave this thread alone.

I wouldn't mind sitting in your cavern drinking  a good beer though. Beer and conversation go well together..... :)

Edited by Euphorbia, 20 May 2013 - 04:50 PM.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

Separation of corporation and state!

#73    third_eye

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:02 PM

One of the 'main' reasons the Atomic bombs were dropped that day was ... believe it or not ... nobody knew what would happen 'exactly'
What they had was an opportunity to see if the 'numbers' of the maths and theories were 'verifiable'

There were concerns of 'fallout' and 'radiation' storms .... that's why it was dropped way over here on this side of the planet .... they wanted to 'see' what would 'really' happen ....


Quote

The First Atomic Bomb Blast, 1945


.......... "Trinity."
Even before the bomb was tested, a second bomb was secretly dispatched to the Pacific for an attack on the Japanese city of Hiroshima.
Preparations for the test included the building of a steel tower that would suspend the bomb one hundred feet above ground. Many were apprehensive - there were concerns that the blast might launch a cataclysmic reaction in the upper atmosphere leading to world destruction. Some feared the consequences of radio-active fallout on civilian populations surrounding the test site. Still others feared the test would be an outright dud. Observers were sent to surrounding towns to monitor the results of the blast and medical teams were kept on alert.


Quote

"We were reaching into the unknown and we did not know what might come of it."
Two days after the blast, General Groves, head of the Manhattan Project, sent a Top Secret memorandum to Secretary of War Stimson detailing the events of that morning. Groves included the description of General Thomas Farrell who was in an observation hut close to the blast along with a hand-full of scientists and other personnel. We join General Farrell's account a few hours before the explosion:

link




Quote


History of the Atomic Bomb & The Manhattan Project
"My God, what have we done?" - Robert Lewis co-pilot of the Enola Gay

Testing The Gadget aka Atomic Bomb


Upon witnessing the explosion, its creators had mixed reactions. Isidor Rabi felt that the equilibrium in nature had been upset as if humankind had become a threat to the world it inhabited. Robert Oppenheimer, though ecstatic about the success of the project, quoted a remembered fragment from the Bhagavad Gita. "I am become Death," he said, "the destroyer of worlds." Ken Bainbridge, the test director, told Oppenheimer, "Now we're all sons of b****es."

link


Exactly ....
"My God, what have we done?"

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#74    mike72

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:04 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 18 May 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Fool. The goal for using nukes was not to kill innocents. It was to force surrender. I bet you'd feel differently if it was your family members that were raped for years on end tied to a bed.

I have not been to japan, but my view of the japanese is that they are egotistical misogynists. It appears that they will not back down despite being in the wrong, on issues like whaling for example.


Your an idiot. The Nukes didn't kill innocent people? Think before you write fool.


#75    Lava_Lady

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:52 AM

Seems like this article is about one simple minded jackass that made an ignorant and clearly misguided statement about atrocities that occurred at war.  The mayor is clearly a bigoted a hole but I don't think the nation of Japan agrees with him... do they?

View PostMabon, on 14 May 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Wow is right! It just stagger the imagination.

Mabon.

This is a very small portion of the atrocities committed.

It's sad to think that morons like this arrogant mayor are allowed to represent the entire nation.  To even use the term "comfort women" is a HUGE slap in the face of the rest of the world especially women... it's like saying, we're all too stupid to know the truth which is "comfort women" = SLAVES.

The plaque  in "honor"  of captured women used as objects for the sexual gratification of the sick and twisted... just salt in the wound.

It's like he thinks the entire world is too stupid to know what went on...  that he and the like minded can pretend like it was all a friendly gesture and no harm done.

I've listened to first hand accounts and at only one generation away from the horror of it all, I want him to experience what just one of the "comfort women" experienced.  From second one all the way to the end (death).

Edited by Lava_Lady, 21 May 2013 - 02:17 AM.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald





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