254 replies to this topic

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 02 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

But it IS happening.  What would you call the months or sometimes years of rocket fire followed by the occasional ground incursion that kills hundreds?

Israel Zionistic expansionism through settlements despite the world warning them othwerwise

Quote

Just because Israel doesn't roll in and raze the strip doesn't mean they aren't at war.  And just because Gazans don't put on uniforms and fight with conventional tactics doesn't mean they can't disrupt life and commerce for Israel in a serious way.

They can't fight a conventional war because they're occupied by land and sea by Israel and they have no army, navy....LOL

Quote

  At some point and maybe soon if  the PA try the ICC to exert more pressure, Israel may very well go into Gaza in a major way and even reoccupy parts of it.  They will have no other choice since they aren't the kind to quit.

Invade a UN Member? You really sure?

Quote

And the attitude that the clock is ticking for Israel alone is erroneous.

Points of view I suppose.  

Quote

I absolutely MARVEL at the attitudes here about Israel and the Palestinians.  There seems to be a near total disconnect from reality where the arc of this conflict is headed.  Many seem to actually believe, in spite of all evidence, that Israel is going to succumb to words and just give up their homes and wander in the world again because many nations hate them.  WOULD YOU?  I think not.

You really are convinced that Israel is oblivious to all international law and have the power to do whatever they please, to whoever they please because they've managed to win a couple of wars thanks to the billions of dollars of military aid assistance they've received from the US and their supportive European allies since the 70's?  Whatever........

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 02 December 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[and then]

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 02 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Israel Zionistic expansionism through settlements despite the world warning them othwerwise



They can't fight a conventional war because they're occupied by land and sea by Israel and they have no army, navy....LOL



Invade a UN Member? You really sure?



Points of view I suppose.  



You really are convinced that Israel is oblivious to all international law and have the power to do whatever they please, to whoever they please because they've managed to win a couple of wars thanks to the billions of dollars of military aid assistance they've received from the US and their supportive European allies since the 70's?  Whatever........

I think you are intentionally ignoring what I'm trying to say.  Israel wants all the land.  The Palestinians want all the land.  Eventually I believe that the world will side with the Palestinians and Israel will be pushed into a corner and since they will not surrender what they feel is their's a war will ensue.  It all seems pretty logical to me.  But I'm willing to see your side - maybe you can tell me what the world can do to change the facts on the ground?  This continual warning that is done in the UN...where do you think it leads?  It's a reasonable question - I'm curious about how you see the situation being resolved.

[shanlung]

It is time to give real weapons and arms to the Palestinians.
Let the Palestinians fight with armaments equal to that used against them by Israel.
The Israel will be persuaded that new settlements must stop for true peace.

Or do the world just stand by and see the new disgusting Lebensraum being practised by Israel?
Is that what Israel learned from Hitler?

Will the Israel supporters clap  their hands and cheer Israel on?

Will Final Solution for Palestinians be imposed by Israel next?
After all, no less than Israel Ministers vowed Holocaust will be descended onto the Palestinians in Gaza.

[and then]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It is time to give real weapons and arms to the Palestinians.
Let the Palestinians fight with armaments equal to that used against them by Israel.
The Israel will be persuaded that new settlements must stop for true peace.

Or do the world just stand by and see the new disgusting Lebensraum being practised by Israel?
Is that what Israel learned from Hitler?

Will the Israel supporters clap  their hands and cheer Israel on?

Will Final Solution for Palestinians be imposed by Israel next?
After all, no less than Israel Ministers vowed Holocaust will be descended onto the Palestinians in Gaza.

So you feel that providing advanced weaponry to the Palestinians would make the situation better?  I think it would certainly cause more deaths but I'm not sure it would be good for the Palestinians.  Just after Obama came to office he demanded of Israel that they stop building for 10 months as a sign of goodwill so talks could start.  The building stopped.  Why did the Palestinians never come to talk?

[shanlung]

and then, on 03 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

So you feel that providing advanced weaponry to the Palestinians would make the situation better?  I think it would certainly cause more deaths but I'm not sure it would be good for the Palestinians.  Just after Obama came to office he demanded of Israel that they stop building for 10 months as a sign of goodwill so talks could start.  The building stopped.  Why did the Palestinians never come to talk?

And you think letting the Palestinians fight with sticks and stones while allowing high powered weapons to Israel a road for peace?
Israel is laughing at the rest of the world as they grap land as they wished, and drop phosphorus bombs and shoot rockets from helicopter gunships into the Palestinian homes.

Is that peace that you want?  A nauseating one sided peace while Israel steal and build on lands that is not theirs?

With impunity and immunity from Israel robbing and creating of more disgusting Lebensraum?

Give the Hamas and Palestinians the high tech weapons equal to that of Israel.

Then and only then, peace will come.

[and then]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

And you think letting the Palestinians fight with sticks and stones while allowing high powered weapons to Israel a road for peace?
Israel is laughing at the rest of the world as they grap land as they wished, and drop phosphorus bombs and shoot rockets from helicopter gunships into the Palestinian homes.

Is that peace that you want?  A nauseating one sided peace while Israel steal and build on lands that is not theirs?

With impunity and immunity from Israel robbing and creating of more disgusting Lebensraum?

Give the Hamas and Palestinians the high tech weapons equal to that of Israel.

Then and only then, peace will come.

No, I also would like to see a peace where Israelis and Palestinians could share the land and stop killing each other.  From a practical stand point I think your idea would be unworkable due to differences in training even if the Palestinians did have better weapons.  I'm not sure how old you are but I have watched this conflict since the '67 war when I was about 6 years old.  It never changes, really.  The two sides fight, truce, fight , truce, on and on.  Israel has the 10 th best military in the world and the Palestinians don't even have uniforms or a concept of military structure or organization except the Guerilla style that Iran is teaching them.  I think that more fighting is not the answer for either side.  The Palestinians want ALL THE LAND.  I have another question for you - respectfully - the conflict today is reported to be about the "occupied" west bank and the Gaza strip (no longer occupied though blockaded out of necessity)  If this is the case then why was the PLO formed in 1964 prior to those areas being occupied after the war?  What "Palestine" was Arafat trying to liberate?  This is a serious question that I have found no supporter of the Palestinians willing to answer.  It's my goal here to discuss and not argue please.

[shanlung]

Sonny,

I am older,  a lot older than you.

I used to cheer Israel on.  But over the years, their antics and their bullying way disgust me more and more.
Wringing hands and telling Israel they must be serious about peace had not worked in the past and will not ever
work in the future.

Only way is to take all hands off all the parties there.
Not tie the hands and legs of the Palestinians and let Israel continue to terrorised them and Lebensraum other people land as theirs.

Or you happily content to see just that.

Not me.

You go brush up on your history of the ME.

Edited by shanlung, 03 December 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[and then]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Sonny,

I am older,  a lot older than you.

I used to cheer Israel on.  But over the years, their antics and their bullying way disgust me more and more.
Wringing hands and telling Israel they must be serious about peace had not worked in the past and will not ever
work in the future.

Only way is to take all hands off all the parties there.
Not tie the hands and legs of the Palestinians and let Israel continue to terrorised them and Lebensraum other people land as theirs.

Or you happily content to see just that.

Not me.

You go brush up on your history of the ME.

You still did not answer the question, though.  If the PLO was formed in 1964 then what land were they trying to liberate?

[shanlung]

and then, on 03 December 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

You still did not answer the question, though.  If the PLO was formed in 1964 then what land were they trying to liberate?

Sonny,

I answered you.

You go brush up on the history of the ME and you have the answer to your question.
Surely you do not need me to hold your hands do you?

[and then]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Sonny,

I answered you.

You go brush up on the history of the ME and you have the answer to your question.
Surely you do not need me to hold your hands do you?

You did not answer.  No supporter of the Palestinians will just be honest about this issue.  I suspect they avoid it because to address it would mean to admit that the Palestinians have always wanted ALL THE LAND.  "Palestine" to them is every square inch of the land that Israel was founded on.  So I ask again - do you think Israel has a right to ANY of the land of Palestine?

[odas]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It is time to give real weapons and arms to the Palestinians.
Let the Palestinians fight with armaments equal to that used against them by Israel.
The Israel will be persuaded that new settlements must stop for true peace.

Or do the world just stand by and see the new disgusting Lebensraum being practised by Israel?
Is that what Israel learned from Hitler?

Will the Israel supporters clap  their hands and cheer Israel on?

Will Final Solution for Palestinians be imposed by Israel next?
After all, no less than Israel Ministers vowed Holocaust will be descended onto the Palestinians in Gaza.

The final solution? Extermination of Palestinians by the nazi government of Israel. Only the blind can not see that.

[shanlung]

and then, on 03 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

You did not answer.  No supporter of the Palestinians will just be honest about this issue.  I suspect they avoid it because to address it would mean to admit that the Palestinians have always wanted ALL THE LAND.  "Palestine" to them is every square inch of the land that Israel was founded on.  So I ask again - do you think Israel has a right to ANY of the land of Palestine?

Sonny,

You want me to hold your hands!

But then, why should I?
Who are you?
It is clear you do not wish to know the truth and facts of ME and just want to support
Israel blindly regardless of what is right or wrong.

Sonny,

I rather go smell roses.

[and then]

shanlung, on 03 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Sonny,

You want me to hold your hands!

But then, why should I?
Who are you?
It is clear you do not wish to know the truth and facts of ME and just want to support
Israel blindly regardless of what is right or wrong.

Sonny,

I rather go smell roses.

I'm just another member here who asked what I think is a very reasonable question for someone who has nothing to hide.  But if it's so important to hide what you support then so be it.  Have a nice day.

BTW - Is there anyone out there who is a supporter of the Palestinians who is willing to answer my question?  PLO was formed in 1964 to liberate Palestine 3 full years before the West Bank and Gaza were occupied after a war.  What is the land Arafat wanted to liberate?

[jugoso]

and then, on 01 December 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Predictable though it is, it still could have been much worse.  They had threatened to walk away from their commitment to Oslo and to withhold tax revenues from that agreement. Actually, I think they should have skipped on the new building and renounced Oslo since the Palestinian move effectively renounces it also.  Tit for tat.

Well, I guess it does get worse:



Israel Seizes $120m in Palestinian Funds Over UN Vote

Israel continues to respond with 'war, occupation and settlements'

Israel has seized over $120 million in tax revenues it collects for the Palestinian Authority in a second attempt to punish Palestine for its successful bid for observer status at the UN, which resulted in an overwhelming yes vote at the UN general assembly Thursday.
Directly following Friday's vote, which showed Israel and the US as the dominant opponents of a Palestinian state, Israel announced expansive settlement expansion plans in the West Bank of up to 3,000 new homes in settlements across the pre-1967 Green Line. An Israeli official admitted that the two actions were in direct response to the UN vote, the Guardian reports, and that they may withhold tax revenue from the PA again next month depending "on what the Palestinians do or don't do."

http://www.commondre...line/2012/12/02

[glorybebe]

and then, on 03 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'm just another member here who asked what I think is a very reasonable question for someone who has nothing to hide.  But if it's so important to hide what you support then so be it.  Have a nice day.

BTW - Is there anyone out there who is a supporter of the Palestinians who is willing to answer my question?  PLO was formed in 1964 to liberate Palestine 3 full years before the West Bank and Gaza were occupied after a war.  What is the land Arafat wanted to liberate?

There are times wgen I agree with you in other threads.  But, to quite a few if us, you seem blind to the history of the Palestinian/Isreali situation.  You only see things in the Isreali 'side'.  You get frustrated with people responding to you because they din't answer you as you see it.  Yet, I see it as you ignoring posts you don't agree with.