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Atlantis


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#2071    Abramelin

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 12 February 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

In other words there are no fossil bones found of any of these animals on these islands lelf of the island continent Atlantis, so they could`nt have walked there.

I fail to follow your reasoning.

Are you saying that because the bones have washed away and cannot be found, that they could not have lived there??


#2072    Mario Dantas

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:41 PM

Posted Image




Hello again,

I will vent some of my "darkest" fears, regarding what i think occurred in the Azores/Gibraltar region:

Please notice that at the very beginning of the breakup of Pangaea, continents weren't exactly a closed kernel because there is a gap in the north Atlantic, right? We could almost say that there is a gap in front of Gibraltar, where Plato posits the large island of Atlantis. Well, it must be there for a simple reason, there was something in between northern African and northern American continental regions...

The next image concerns ocean floor age and it is obvious that, in the same spot where there lack a continental fit, is located the oldest continental intra-plate rock (in blue color), in the image below (ocean crustal age):



Posted Image


http://upload.wikime..._age_poster.gif



Before Atlantis disappearance, continents were probably considerably closer to each under (if it ever existed), creating a very large "river-like" formation (Oceanus, the world encircling river?):

Quote

Oceanus (pron.: /ˈsənəs/; Ancient Greek: Ὠκεανός (Ōkeanós);[2] pronounced [ɔːkeanós]) was a pseudo-geographical feature in classical antiquity, believed by the ancient Greeks and Romans to be the divine personification of the World Ocean, an enormous river encircling the world.
Strictly speaking, Oceanus was the ocean-stream at the Equator in which floated the habitable hemisphere (οἰκουμένη, oikoumene).[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanus

Posted Image

Posted Image


https://picasaweb.go...LinkForAtlantis



Why is the largest gravitational anomaly on the planet, where Plato said Atlantis to be located? The length of the anomaly is equal to Greenland. The length of the old intra-plate on both sides of the north Atlantic is equal to Greenland, which are, in turn, exactly equal to the distance from Cape Verde to the Azores and from there to Greenland. The Azores, with all due respect, is probably, nothing more than a region where huge eruptive activity occurred, when the island moved from that spot, 10.000 years ago. Continental Plates cannot sink into the Aesthenosphere, sorry... rather they can move across molten media, and the fact that many people think we wouldn't be here to tell the story, think again!

Posted Image




Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 12 February 2013 - 11:08 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#2073    docyabut2

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

Hi Mario:) I do respect anyone like you that has put so much worked into their theory. You claim that Atlantis is Greenland and once was right up to the island of Gades in a continental drift, however does`nt that take million of years and how could Green land have drifted where it is today after only 12,000 years ?


#2074    Mario Dantas

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:44 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 12 February 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Hi Mario:) I do respect anyone like you that has put so much worked into their theory. You claim that Atlantis is Greenland and once was right up to the island of Gades in a continental drift, however does`nt that take million of years and how could Green land have drifted where it is today after only 12,000 years ?

Docyabut,

Thanks for the support!

I am not sure of anything, but i think geologic dating must be wrong, at some point. If we think that the disappearance of the large island of Atlantis had to have provoked a huge cataclysm on earth, 10.000 years ago, then the dating is to be wrong, in the sense that neither gradualism nor uniformitarianism laws admit the possibility of sudden tectonic shift, 10.000 BC.

Having said that, i think the enormity of the event, corrupted the geologic data and confounded our understanding of what existed before that time (Holocene). Nevertheless, if we abstain from dating events, there is a whole new set of possibilities...

Greenland could have traveled at an average speed of 200 Km/h, thus, nearly the take-off speed of a Boeing 747, go figure...Floating on hot magma coming from below, when liquefaction took place, as a consequence of an impact, as Plato told us.

There cannot be room for a peaceful Atlantis solution, nor was it a slow transformation event, as acknowledged by extensive Quaternary (Pleistocene, Holocene) scientific publications...

According to the "main stream" scientific understanding, a continental plate cannot move fast, otherwise we wouldn't be talking here, nor was there any life on the planet.

I ask on what grounds can one affirm categorically that all possible life would be extinct? Having considered the possibility of Atlantis being a true story, one cannot deny that there are a vast amount of "coincidences", The north Atlantic geologic "scenery", and some of the Arctic, is the best way to portrait the "twist" or drift taken by certain continental plates. Since the north pole is around 300 km distant from the MAR, and having been under Greenland once in the geological past, i believe it was the "engine" behind the move, fueled by the meteoric magnetic attraction. The north pole is the real "terminus" of the MAR, the longest mountain ridge in the world!

All this is supposed to be pure speculation, and although i am searching still for a definite truth, i can't believe it myself, at times...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 13 February 2013 - 12:47 AM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#2075    Mario Dantas

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

Quote


But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.
http://classics.mit..../timaeus.1b.txt

Edited by Mario Dantas, 13 February 2013 - 12:51 AM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#2076    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:16 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 12 February 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

In other words there are no fossil bones found of any of these animals on these islands lelf of the island continent Atlantis, so they could`nt have walked there.

No, they couldn't have walked there because there wasn't a 1000 mile long landbridge for them to walk on. And horses and elephants don't swim for 1000 miles at a stretch, particularly in the ocean.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#2077    docyabut2

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

No, they couldn't have walked there because there wasn't a 1000 mile long landbridge for them to walk on. And horses and elephants don't swim for 1000 miles at a stretch, particularly in the ocean.

cormac


Thanks cormac, in my opinion the tale of Atlantis may never have been true the way it writtin and translated many times,  but if true had to be based on a real place and event that appears in history.


#2078    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:10 PM

I wonder could we read some hieroglyphs differently. Maybe Egyptians also have had their own esoteric knowledge which they carved into walls in cryptographic way.
Maybe it was written just wait someone to dechipher it.

I doubt that hieroglyphs were enough protectin from keeping your knowledge secret. In the end hieroglyphs are easy to learn.

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#2079    kmt_sesh

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:28 AM

View Postthe L, on 16 February 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

I wonder could we read some hieroglyphs differently. Maybe Egyptians also have had their own esoteric knowledge which they carved into walls in cryptographic way.
Maybe it was written just wait someone to dechipher it.

I doubt that hieroglyphs were enough protectin from keeping your knowledge secret. In the end hieroglyphs are easy to learn.

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.

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#2080    docyabut2

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 17 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.



There is a record of a storm that destroyed Egypt, around 1550bc. Perhaps the eruption of Threa.Which also relates to the Cecrops dynasties of the 1500 `s hundreds  bc, the kings of Athens, that were said to have been in the Atlantis`s war.

The Tempest Stele (alt. Storm Stele) was erected by Ahmose I early in the eighteenth dynasty of Egypt, circa 1550 BCE. The stele describes a great storm striking Egypt during this time, destroying tombs, temples and pyramids in the Theban region and the work of restoration ordered by the king.[


http://en.wikipedia....i/Tempest_Stele

Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

Edited by docyabut2, 17 February 2013 - 01:34 PM.


#2081    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 17 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

I wouldn't say "easy," as I've spent many years learning hieroglyphs and am certainly not an expert. But is it possible? Absolutely. I guarantee you, far more people today can read hieroglyphs than the ancient Egyptians could have.

On the subject of cryptographic hieroglyphs, this was in fact done but not until Ptolemaic times—so, very late in Egyptian history. Nevertheless, linguists have deciphered these glyphs, too. In any case hieroglyphs were not really meant to convey secrets. The Ptolemaic cryptic glyphs aside, hieroglyphs represented a form of the ancient language reserved for ritual and religion, pharaonic propaganda included. There's nothing much esoteric about them.

At the end of the day there is simply no extant record or remnant in the Egyptian tradition of the Atlantis story—be it in hieroglyphs, hieratic, or demotic.

Hello Kmt!

I never study them. But I listen for people who did studied hieroglyphs what they say. Im not saying that you are slow or nothing. DIfferent people study on different levels. Some use qucik reading technique and read pages as you read sentences. They read sentences as you read words. I know that fast reading has nothing with understanding hieroglyphs but it did open different perspective on texts. They see words as symbols. They dont read letter after letter. They are visual.

One student of Egyptology told me that after he learn hieroglyphs see our words as symbols. I remeber J.A. West and his theory of Egyptian symbolism and their transformation universe. Transformation is key word. Our science dont have principles. We are random event in universe. For Egyptians we were universe who discover itself. Awarness of universe which transform into material work. Their all culture was allegory and symbolism.

So I think it depends to person to person. I do think that people who meditate learn easy. Also many others factors are crucial. Trained brain learn easier. Young brain learn easier.

About chipher, there are countless types of chiphers. I guess we all agree that if you want something to be secret it wouldnt be smart to wrote that on temple wall. Now you said that more people know Egyptian hieroglyphs today then backthen. I guess thats because todays population is very much high and you can learn it on the internet if you want (I guess).

Also as I said there are many different types of codes, chiphiers. Cryptography is science. So its not like we grasp all. Maybe, and I say maybe, there is chance that smart Egyptians did carved their secret knowledge on walls. And that only chosen can read it. Its like conspiracy theory. When you want to hide something you put it in public. Example,  when Germany wanted to hide its prize new Messerschmidt fighter plane in 1938, the aircraft was put on display at the Paris Air Show.

You probably think now , okay lets say that they were that smart and that they did hide secret messages on walls who come that no one before didnt decode it? Ah probably because there is no secret messages. And I must agree with you. But we cant ignore that might be a chance. Im  sure that many people knew to read hieroglyphs that were not scribes,priests and so on. There are many examples in history. And dont know did you heard about 19 century mathmatician Marie-Sophie Germain who secretly study math and pretend that he was a man in her letters to others mathmaticians.

Now what kind of chipher can hide messages. I dont know. I can only guess. Maybe it was something like Cardan grille.

I remember one more thing.

When Champollion was 11 old he obeserved with admiration on Joseph Fourier collection of Egyptian artifacts. He was stumble upon hieroglyphs. Young Champollion decided that he will understand hieroglyphs no one could read so he end up like great linguist.
When in 1828 he visited Egypt at Dendera he said: "We in Europe are only dwarfs." There he wrote in letter to his brother that he understand reading hieroglyphs.

At Karnak and Dendera Champollion found that he could read hieroglyphs. Then by looking at Rosetta stone he realized that his decipherment  of few years earlier had been correct. He said: "You get better results if you dont think about it too much."

So we can conclude that Champollion himself thought that its easy to understand Egyptian hieroglyphs. That reading it shouldnt be a hard work but rather enjoyment of understanding their symbolism.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#2082    docyabut2

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

In the poem of Solon`s Atlantis, I believe the 9000 years before was in references to the foundations of the cites of Atlantis, Athens and the Gods,not of the war that was said to have taken place in the 1500bc`s and of Atlantis`s  destruction.


#2083    Abramelin

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 17 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

In the poem of Solon`s Atlantis, I believe the 9000 years before was in references to the foundations of the cites of Atlantis, Athens and the Gods,not of the war that was said to have taken place in the 1500bc`s and of Atlantis`s  destruction.

Can you give us a quote from Plato where he says that the war had taken place in 1500 BC?


#2084    docyabut2

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Can you give us a quote from Plato where he says that the war had taken place in 1500 BC?

Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html


#2085    cormac mac airt

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 17 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Plato
This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon,


http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

That doesn't work as Plato says, specifically, in Critias:

Quote

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




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