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Best evidence for ET visitation - 4th edition


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#16    DBunker

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 17 January 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Still got the Santa hat, Hazz?


He had it for over a year now..... he just wont take it off. :angry:

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#17    sslama

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

lol,  Cheers to you too.  I can understand your point of view to an extent.  There is a saying "An open mind is like a fortess with it's gates unbarred".  But, although it can be hard  to do sometimes, I've always found that when I open my mind, I've reaped a lot of rewarding benefits.  It's scary to put yourself in a position of vulnerability but admitting you don't know everything and may be wrong is pretty terrifying.

There is a lot of positive things from opening the door to your mind and letting new ideas and beliefs come in. When you open your mind you let go of control and that can be liberating.   Opening your mind allow new ideas to come in and and that changes the way you view the world and how you think.  There is honesty with an open mind.  You are admitting you are not all knowing.  It means whatever truth you do find out there you realize there is always more to it than you thought.

This is a subject I like to keep an open mind on.

Just sayin.... :yes:

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

#18    S2F

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

lol,  Cheers to you too.  I can understand your point of view to an extent.  There is a saying "An open mind is like a fortess with it's gates unbarred".  But, although it can be hard  to do sometimes, I've always found that when I open my mind, I've reaped a lot of rewarding benefits.  It's scary to put yourself in a position of vulnerability but admitting you don't know everything and may be wrong is pretty terrifying.

There is a lot of positive things from opening the door to your mind and letting new ideas and beliefs come in. When you open your mind you let go of control and that can be liberating.   Opening your mind allow new ideas to come in and and that changes the way you view the world and how you think.  There is honesty with an open mind.  You are admitting you are not all knowing.  It means whatever truth you do find out there you realize there is always more to it than you thought.

This is a subject I like to keep an open mind on.

Just sayin.... :yes:

Surely you must have a system to 'filter' the thoughts and ideas that are simply untrue right? Or do you lend equal credence to everything? This is where critical thought comes into play. One must ask themselves not only 'is this true?' but also 'how is it true?' and proceed to verify the thought or idea through research and logical, objective interpretations of any evidence uncovered.

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#19    sslama

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

@ psyche101 - Thank you for your reply to my comments psyche101.  I have many disagreements with you.

Today we are using the same surgical instruments the ancients used 6000 yrs ago.  They were performing brain surgery then too.  There is no evidence of surgical tools before this period and to have the ability to make these instruments means a highly sophisticated society.  What I’m saying is, I think a group of beings gave us this knowledge.  Our civilization had a huge growth spurt suddenly around this time.  There are stories of the gods landing and giving us this knowledge from all cultures in our civilization.  

Today an eye witness means everything.  You can be convicted of any crime with an eye witness….why, when you talk of UFO sightings, do you dismiss this fact.  There is always going to be corrupt individuals lying and cheating.   But to suggest that all of the UFO eyewitnesses from the ancient times until now are lying is a bit of an outrageous comment.  Also there are many, many highly trained pilots witnessing these events.  Many were afraid to talk about it because they would be shunned by people with thoughts like you. But lately they have come forward and told their stories.  They can't all be all fabricating these stories.  With our knowledge today perhpas these 'Vimanas' work on principles we don't understand yet.  Perhaps in our near future we will discover a new energy source which will solve this mystery.  The fact still remains people recorded these crafts flying.

Why does another species have to be more intelligent than us to travel so far to another planet, you ask.…because it does.  We can’t solve the problems of space travel without reaching a certain level in our intelligent.  We wouldn’t be able to survive the many perils of such long distance travel.  Our latest mission to Mars was an experiment.  We didn’t even know if we could land a craft. So intelligence plays a big part.  Anyone visiting us now or in the future would have to be further advanced than we are today or they wouldn’t be able to make the journey with safety….let alone set up a civilization on earth which I think they did.  So in answer to your question" what does my comments have to do with this topic"….it has everything to do with it.

@ Slave....of course you have to use a filter....there is a lot of inaccuracies on the internet.  What you just said is very true in every way.  But you need to be able to at least contemplate the thought first then proceed to research and look at it objectively and make up your own mind.  I'm a huge believer in that.

Edited by sslama, 17 January 2013 - 06:28 PM.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

#20    DBunker

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

This site kills Billy Meiers UFO claim..... if anyone out thee still believes in it?


http://billymeierufo...comparison.html


From the pod cast posted earlier by Hazzard.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#21    sslama

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

I thought Meier was vindicated.....
I know most UFO researchers did not believe in the claims of Mr. Meier and many described the case as a hoax but I remember reading an article which kep my mind open on this subject.

In  2001, in order to resolve if he was lying more than 1200 photos and 8 films were investigated by Vaughn Rees of CFI.  Mr. Rees said that in his EXPERT opinion they were all easily duplicated hoaxes.  Mr Rees said he could copy what Mr. Meier’s did by scratching the film with a pin and backed this claim by taking one of Mr. Meirers easiest film segments to duplicate and show it was a hoax. He failed to do this over the next few months and someone suggested he use high tech equip.  He didn’t even have to be exact in details, just enough to be convincing.

Two years later Mr. Rees was confronted of his failure to reproduce the film segment and his response was he didn’t have access to a photo processing lab which Mr. Meier didn’t have access to back then either.

Edited by sslama, 17 January 2013 - 08:27 PM.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

#22    DONTEATUS

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

IS it not still amazeing that people believed this junk?

This is a Work in Progress!

#23    sslama

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:30 PM

Believing and keeping an open mind is two different things....it's amazing to me people don't know the difference.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

#24    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I thought Meier was vindicated.....
I know most UFO researchers did not believe in the claims of Mr. Meier and many described the case as a hoax but I remember reading an article which kep my mind open on this subject.

In 2001, in order to resolve if he was lying more than 1200 photos and 8 films were investigated by Vaughn Rees of CFI. Mr. Rees said that in his EXPERT opinion they were all easily duplicated hoaxes. Mr Rees said he could copy what Mr. Meier’s did by scratching the film with a pin and backed this claim by taking one of Mr. Meirers easiest film segments to duplicate and show it was a hoax. He failed to do this over the next few months and someone suggested he use high tech equip. He didn’t even have to be exact in details, just enough to be convincing.

Two years later Mr. Rees was confronted of his failure to reproduce the film segment and his response was he didn’t have access to a photo processing lab which Mr. Meier didn’t have access to back then either.
yes, how could anyone doubt?? :cry: Posted Image Posted Image

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#25    Hazzard

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 17 January 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Still got the Santa hat, Hazz?

Dont blame me, it was BooN that made me wear it.

Now I cant take it off. :angry:

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#26    Hazzard

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

I thought Meier was vindicated.....
I know most UFO researchers did not believe in the claims of Mr. Meier and many described the case as a hoax but I remember reading an article which kep my mind open on this subject.

In  2001, in order to resolve if he was lying more than 1200 photos and 8 films were investigated by Vaughn Rees of CFI.  Mr. Rees said that in his EXPERT opinion they were all easily duplicated hoaxes.  Mr Rees said he could copy what Mr. Meier’s did by scratching the film with a pin and backed this claim by taking one of Mr. Meirers easiest film segments to duplicate and show it was a hoax. He failed to do this over the next few months and someone suggested he use high tech equip.  He didn’t even have to be exact in details, just enough to be convincing.

Two years later Mr. Rees was confronted of his failure to reproduce the film segment and his response was he didn’t have access to a photo processing lab which Mr. Meier didn’t have access to back then either.

Vaughn Reese from CFI gave it his best. But didnt quite make it. No, It was Phil Langdon that hit it out of the stadium.

He debunked pretty much all of the "evidence" put fourth by Meier,.. and Michael Horn. Listen to the pod cast episode 29 I believe,... after that and the Langdon site there can be no more doubt.



VvVv

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#27    psyche101

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

View PostHazzard, on 17 January 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

As always, psyche, a very informative post.

I have been looking into the ancient aliens show/claim a little bit and I found a couple of pod casts that I enjoy. Good stuff.

The Dumbasses Guide To Knowledge. http://www.dumbassgu...tries/cat_id=11 Here (on page 2) we have the "Rocks from Saqsaywaman that Tsoukalos thinks were melted into place" that we just had in the AA thread.

And,...

EXPOSING PSEUDO ASTRONOMY - Dr Suart Robins debunking claims from coast to coast (funny as hell). http://pseudoastro.w...tegory/podcast/


Cheers, I will have a listen to that, thanks mate!

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#28    booNyzarC

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

View PostHazzard, on 17 January 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Dont blame me, it was BooN that made me wear it.

Now I cant take it off. :angry:

Want your original?  I still have a copy of it.

Attached File  hazzard.jpg   45.8K   6 downloads


#29    sslama

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:04 AM

Thanks Hazzard that was interesting.....I guess I wasn't up to date on this guy.  But that doesn't change the fact that so many high profile, professional people, as well as others haven't seen a UFO.....Canadian Govt too has witnessed UFO's.  What they are and where they are from is a mystery, but they are real.
Buzz Aldrin and Gordon Cooper...Cooper believed till his dying day that they were real.  Charles Halt, former Air Force Colonel accused US of coverup on this subject.  It certainly is an interesting subject and definitely something is going on out there that's alien to us.  What?  Not sure.

Edited by sslama, 18 January 2013 - 04:05 AM.

"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

#30    psyche101

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

@ psyche101 - Thank you for your reply to my comments psyche101.  I have many disagreements with you.

Hi sslama

Thank you for your polite and courteous reply. Your good manners are noted, and appreciated. I have no problems with disagreement, after all, we are all individuals, all I ask is a sensible and fair discussion.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Today we are using the same surgical instruments the ancients used 6000 yrs ago.  They were performing brain surgery then too.  There is no evidence of surgical tools before this period and to have the ability to make these instruments means a highly sophisticated society.  What I’m saying is, I think a group of beings gave us this knowledge.  Our civilization had a huge growth spurt suddenly around this time.  There are stories of the gods landing and giving us this knowledge from all cultures in our civilization.  

Not quite. We do not use the same surgical instruments we used 6,000 years ago. Not in modern medicine. The only recorded surgical practise that old is trepanning. Whilst it is still seen in some places today, it is hardly modern medicine.

In fact, all ancient practises were painfull and barbaric. It is honestly hard to see an advanced species telling us how to accomplish Treppaning as opposed to antiseptics, which did not come about intill the 1800's thanks to Ignaz Semmelweis. And thank goodness for him, he has saved many lives with his determination. His insistance to wash hands between patients was seen as an insult, after all, Doctors were healers, givers of life. That they could be taking it away was unthinkable. But Ignaz persisted, and Antiseptic procedures were born.

But, we have many aliments, trauma happens, we need more than Trepanning, and we had more. Pretty basic stuff, we used ro cover ourselves with earth and mud for relief  this evolved for us to realise that some plants had quite an effect. We started playing with plants. That lead to medicines. Medicines led to antiseptics.

And some surgical tools have remained the same. Not 6,000 years as far as I know, but for sure over 2,500 years ago. But I ask you, what, would you change? Consider a pair of forceps  They are designed fo a basic function. All they do is clamp. What improvements to you expect to see?

The claim that the knowledge came from the stars is also not entirely how I remember it. Is not one of the oldest tales from Mesopotamia? I seem to recall Berossus claiming that Oannes gave us knowledge that always existed. And he came from the sea, not the stars. Indicating our knowledge comes form the earth.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Today an eye witness means everything.  You can be convicted of any crime with an eye witness….why, when you talk of UFO sightings, do you dismiss this fact.  There is always going to be corrupt individuals lying and cheating.  

Today it does, but I have hope for tomorrow. The position and value of eyewitness testimony in the court system is being challenged, I hope it is successful.

Of the people I mentioned - the innocence project. A selection of 300 cases so far have been evaluated. Of this sample, 75% of eyewitness testimony was shown to be incorrect, and had even landed people on death row. That is not corrupt or lying individuals. That is everyday situations that change peoples lives forever.

The problem with testimony is it is in the eye of the beholder, that persons bias, and influences make up part of the final decision on how one described something they do not recognise, as such, we end up with the same thing being described as an Alien by one person, when the next person might say the very same thing is a Goblin or the like. Nobody on earth is qualified to identify anything alien. Does it not bother you that with all the claims, not one has any sort of quarantine procedure? A witness testimony should be accurate, not interpreted  If someone see s light in the sky, they should say "I saw a light in the sky" and describe it. As soon as they say "I saw an Aliens sstarrship" the testiomony is worthless, because individual assessments have already been made, tainting the outcome.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

But to suggest that all of the UFO eyewitnesses from the ancient times until now are lying is a bit of an outrageous comment.  

I do not believe I did that in any place. If you re-read my post you will find I blame modern man the the vandalisation of historical records. Modern man has made the same mistake eyewitnesses do. He see's a thing, the process of it's creation escapes him, so he turns to a higher power. ET. I do not believe that when the stories were retold that they were retold in their original format. I near shed a tear to see the real story of the Wondjina portrayed as aliens by the woo woo crowd.
We as outsiders canot accurately transcribe these cultures. We need to go back to the people and ask them to do that. When we do it, we mess it up, because we have very different ideologies. If we were to take these tales as gospel, then it would seem that all of Australia's river systems were carved by a giant snake. We know that is not the case, but it is how the dreamtime explains terrain. Man wrapping his head around nature one little bit at a time.  Avery long process. Surely you do not expect a massive giant snake that carves rivers to be dug up from under Uluru?

AA is only vandalism. I have almost finished drafting a proposal to forward to Indigenous authorities here. I am sure it will take me a while, but I hope to see AA not outlawed, but responsibility placed upon them. I want to see clear evidence that leads to the claims made, not outright lies like those told about Puma Punku. It is my dream that if AA'ers are shown to be lying and making things up for a TV show, that they will be officially charged with tampering with historical records, and vandalism. AA needs accountability, at the moment it is rape and plunder of our historical record.
Lets face it, if AA'ers are on the level, they will welcome such a move. That is not ancient man, who managed these incredible accomplishments, that is the lazy mind of modern man who canot wrap his head around a laborious construction process. Modern man is to blame, and modern mane needs to be held accountable.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Also there are many, many highly trained pilots witnessing these events.  Many were afraid to talk about it because they would be shunned by people with thoughts like you. But lately they have come forward and told their stories.  They can't all be all fabricating these stories.  

Again, I think the cases should be examined individually, because they are hardly identical. Actually, Hynek said that Pilots make the worst witnesses.

From what I have read, a great deal of what has been reported sounds very much like natural phenomena. If you read the majority of Foo Fighter reports, anyone can see they are natural phenomena  but the woo woo crowd continues to insist otherwise. Planes deliberately flew into Foo Fighters. They were not physical in any way. They are described as being more similar to the Hessdalen phenomena. Famous cases like Mantel have two sides to the story. I am of the opinion that is an earthly explanation exists. it must take precedence. After all, that is where every answer to date concerning the UFO phenomena has come from. JAL 1628 is touted as you say above, some claim that Captain Kenju Terauchi was reprimanded for speaking out about his sighting, which is not the case at all, he was grounded for breaking many valid company rules. Rules are rules. No matter how important it seems to one that one should be broken.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

With our knowledge today perhpas these 'Vimanas' work on principles we don't understand yet.  Perhaps in our near future we will discover a new energy source which will solve this mystery.  The fact still remains people recorded these crafts flying.

Not a chance I am afraid. These monstrous contraptions canot work in neither and atmosphere nor space.

Michio Kaku from Through The Wormhole, Season 3, Episode 1. - "Even Aliens have to obey the laws of physics"

The blueprints and descriptions do not call for exotic technology they show how these things are supposed to work. I feel Da Vinci's imagination did a far better job, much more eloquent. Much more sensible, much more viable.

Posted ImagePosted Image

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Why does another species have to be more intelligent than us to travel so far to another planet, you ask.…because it does.  We can’t solve the problems of space travel without reaching a certain level in our intelligent.  We wouldn’t be able to survive the many perils of such long distance travel.  Our latest mission to Mars was an experiment.  We didn’t even know if we could land a craft. So intelligence plays a big part.  Anyone visiting us now or in the future would have to be further advanced than we are today or they wouldn’t be able to make the journey with safety….let alone set up a civilization on earth which I think they did.  So in answer to your question" what does my comments have to do with this topic"….it has everything to do with it.

Did you miss the part about the Orion Project in my link? We have solved the problems of immediate Interstellar Travel, Project Orion, which I have already mentioned. In the early 60's it had the capability of moving hundreds of people between systems at 10% the speed of light. That's about 40 years to Alpha Centauri for us, a bit less for them. Do you realise that using time dilation, and length contraction from attaining a percentage of the speed of light, that we could reach the center of our Galaxy in a mere 12 years?

Our latest mission to Mars was the perfection of the experiments that went before. Curiosity was Preceded by Opportunity, Spirit and Sojourner. They led the way and broke the ground. Wen of course knew we could land the craft, it was the fourth time.
We can make the journey with safety. To date, Project Orion remains the best possibility for Interstellar travel.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


I detest Youtube, as my Sig says, but I showed this to Donteatus, and he enjoyed it. Perhaps you will too. This special has a great deal about Project Orion, and how we might use it if we were threatened by an unstoppable force that would destroy our planet. In any case, this is something of an effort for me, as I have YT barred, but I hope you enjoy it.




It is just a white rectangle to me, but I hope you enjoy it. Mostly I hope I got it right. As long as it is not a pole dancer we should be on the right show.

View Postsslama, on 17 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

@ Slave....of course you have to use a filter....there is a lot of inaccuracies on the internet.  What you just said is very true in every way.  But you need to be able to at least contemplate the thought first then proceed to research and look at it objectively and make up your own mind.  I'm a huge believer in that.

Then I ask you to have a good look at the Orion Project, and get back to with regards to human space travel.

Edited by psyche101, 18 January 2013 - 04:34 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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