143 replies to this topic

[J. K.]

I tend to see the overall picture before I dive into details, so my view is: the U.S.A. is in the Middle East to quell terrorism.  What is the opposing view?  In your mind, what is the goal of the U.S. in that area?

[Babe Ruth]

J. K., on 06 February 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

I tend to see the overall picture before I dive into details, so my view is: the U.S.A. is in the Middle East to quell terrorism.  What is the opposing view?  In your mind, what is the goal of the U.S. in that area?

The notion of terrorism is a hobgoblin, offered up by wicked men in government to scare the populace.  It worked real well.  The Global War On Terror is a fraud of epic proportions.

We invaded the middle east to advance empire and business, nothing more.

[Yamato]

Babe Ruth, on 06 February 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

We invaded the middle east to advance empire and business, nothing more.

You're right, but when we follow the herd and conduct interviews it was also for liberation, and regime change, and weapons of mass destruction, and dealing with Al Qaeda "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11", and for equal rights, and women's issues, and humanitarian purposes, and something Saddam did in the '80s but not to Iran, and for (pick one you like and add it here).   When the war mongers are throwing every crap reason on the wall they can think of to justify the violence and they don't care which one it is that drags us on board, the fraud exposes itself.   Any war that's started for multiple-choice reasons is Terrorism itself.

[Detective Mystery 2013]

acidhead, on 06 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

True.  Eisenhower was a great man too, imo.

But at the end of the day liberty is not won by one man acting alone with his followers.  Freedom is achieved when each individual acts upon his own personal liberty as long as it doesn't infringe on the private property of other.  This means treat each individual, other than yourself, the way you would want to be treated by another individual infringing on your personal property.

"An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army"

I wish that I could give more than one "like" to you for your post. First, I like your example. Eisenhower, a true war hero, warned us about the military-industrial complex. His whole speech was given in a way that mentioned both economic and political realities, but he also told the truth about the future. Second, we might have identical life philosophies. We should have the right to to do and say what we please, but those personal rights should not interfere with the rights of another individual and their property. That's all the law that we need in a free country, and, like you said, the Golden Rule takes care of the rest. I wish that our leaders shared your ideas!

[Raptor Witness]

It's insane to me that they would take this guy to a shooting range for PTSD therapy. He sounds like the dead Mom of the Newtown shooter. These are people who are afraid to live.

According to their numbers, there are 22 veterans and/or active duty military personnel committing suicide each day. It's also a sympton of anger turned inward, but not all are capable of maintaining this posture, so a shooting range is the last place they need to be.

I suspect that this is the byproduct of poor people being forced into jobs they really don't want, because they feel like they have no hope or choice of finding another job. It's getting harder and harder to find medical insurance for young families who aren't capable of paying out of pocket and want their children covered.

It's so sad that it's beyond words, and by sad I mean it's a depressing statistic.

Raptor Witness, on 25 June 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Violence is your plague, Washington.

[Babe Ruth]

MichaelW, on 07 February 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

No it isn't. The condiment is from the seeds of a plant and the gas is a mixture of chemicals that in it's impure form, have the same colouring as mustard, hence the name.

And the funny thing is, you do actually think that it's a mustard.

If you can find some--it's probably difficult today--check out Oil Of Mustard.  Years ago as a youngster I worked in a drug store and it was used in compounding some prescription products.  A whiff of that oil will snap your head back.  I think from the oil comes the gas.

[Orcseeker]

This thread is getting a bit out of hand folks... A lot of misconceptions and poor understanding.

A man went to a war and he did what he believed he had to do. I'm not sure how many of you here or myself understand what it is like to watch a man through a gun scope and put an end to his life, his memories, everything he is tied to and especially when you do it again and again.

He wasn't there for our freedom. We weren't under any threat from these so called enemies. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq despite all these "intelligence" agencies claiming so. It's not a war for freedom or security. It was a war that was conducted for the best interests of a few. The increase in threat is only so due to conflicts such as these.

Not one troop fighting this war is doing so for our freedom. Nor am I implying that I don't admire their courage and respect them for their sacrifice. But they aren't fighting for a just cause.

I ask anyone here to justify such wars. For anyone to tell me there wasn't a better way.

The "Wars" we see today are backward in this day and age. Pick any war that has happened recently/happening, whether it be the war on drugs, war in Iraq, anything. Even your local supermarket chains and tell me if they are working for your benefit.

Back to the subject article. You can view on YouTube a sniper talking about taking out targets. It does get to you, ending a mans life. Who knows what happened up there on that shooting range. Maybe he even asked the guy to shoot him?

[Frank Merton]

Citizens have certain duties as citizens of a country, whether they agree with its decisions or not.  It would require my being convinced that a given war was deeply immoral before I could refuse to serve in its army, and that would be a huge burden -- not just that I disagreed with its objectives or its conduct.  We cannot pick and choose like that.  A country, like the US, where it seems the public has decided it can, is headed for oblivion and its citizens for subjugation.  Americans are lucky that their country is rich in power and intellect, so no doubt this weakness will delay the inevitable for a good long while, but unless the country changes it will come.

[EllJay]

Orcseeker, on 08 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

This thread is getting a bit out of hand folks... A lot of misconceptions and poor understanding.

A man went to a war and he did what he believed he had to do. I'm not sure how many of you here or myself understand what it is like to watch a man through a gun scope and put an end to his life, his memories, everything he is tied to and especially when you do it again and again.

This guy, Chris Kyle, was, or had become, totally indifferent to his victims and didn't think of them as human beings. I dont know if he started out like that, but he said in his Time Magazine interview on the question-"What goes through your mind when you kill someone?" that-"I'm not over there looking at these people as people. I'm not wondering if he has a family. I'm just trying to keep my guys safe."

On the question- "Some snipers leave a target alive so they can shoot the people who come to his aid. Do you think this is O.K.?" he said- "I think so. I've never done it. You don't have to leave them alive for someone to come help them. With the Muslim faith, they need to be buried before either the sun goes down or the sun comes up. So they'll come get the body." - so it's then when he actually picks many of them off, when they come for the guys body to bury him, I guess.

This man was probably a young innocent kid once. War and training made him into something different.

Orcseeker, on 08 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

He wasn't there for our freedom. We weren't under any threat from these so called enemies. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq despite all these "intelligence" agencies claiming so. It's not a war for freedom or security. It was a war that was conducted for the best interests of a few. The increase in threat is only so due to conflicts such as these.

Not one troop fighting this war is doing so for our freedom. Nor am I implying that I don't admire their courage and respect them for their sacrifice. But they aren't fighting for a just cause.

I ask anyone here to justify such wars. For anyone to tell me there wasn't a better way.

I would guess a major part of the soldiers are signing up of two reasons, 1) is that they are swept in by the glorification of being a soldier that rarely focus on how it is and how it will affect you as a person to take another mans life in battle. To actually extinguish another persons life and see it leave his body is something that would only leave a psychotic mind undisturbed.
Many battle situations these days are "detached" in a sort of "boom-cool-hellyeah-did-you-see-that?-CallOfDuty-onTVscreen"-kind of way, and does not really "compute" in the minds of some soldiers. The men on the ground though, fighting eye to eye gets aware of the ramification of war pretty quick, I imagine.

2) The second reason is that being a soldier is, for may poor uneducated boys, the only ticket to anything here in life. And being 18-20 y.o many dont have the insight what war really means on the ground, and how their psyche and body would actually exit that process, if the come out of it alive at all. Going from a 20y.o kid in perfect health to a 23y.o without an arm and a leg, and a mind fractured by PTSD inst really that glorifying that the recruiter make it sound to be. War is a awful ******* thing that no man or women should have to go through.
But once there, and on the ground, it is the Generals wars, and the kids on the ground just fight for the buddy besides him, and his own life, and really dont know why they are there many times.

But then we have a third reason for some people being a soldier, and that is because they actually enjoy the violence, and killing another human being is desireful for them.Those are psychotics and I dont think that the percentage, of these kinds of people, are that low in the military that some would like to think it is.

[AsteroidX]

You probably didnt hear the statement by his brother about his death and if you did likely wouldnt have understood what it meant. When I read that especially the bolded statement his targets are mentioned and acknowledged. Which is completely not necessary as we are at war with pseudo war with Al Queda

Quote

“My name is Jeff Kyle. I’m here representing my family, the Kyle family, and also the Littlefield family. I am reading a prepared statement prepared by the Kyle family and Littlefield family,” Kyle began.
“Chris Kyle and his trusted friend, Chad Littlefield, were tragically killed on Saturday, February 2, 2013, by a troubled veteran whom they were trying to help,” Kyle said. “Chris lived by a professional motto: ‘It is our duty to serve those who serve us.’ And he and Chad died honoring this creed.”
He went on: “Above all else, Chris was a unique individual, an amazing loving father, husband, son, brother, friend and devout Christian who had a profound effect on the lives of those that he touched. Chris was publicly known for being the president of Craft International and the author of the best-selling book ‘American Sniper.’ Chris, a former Navy SEAL, served four combat tours in operation Iraqi Freedom and elsewhere.”

[Orcseeker]

EllJay, on 08 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

This guy, Chris Kyle, was, or had become, totally indifferent to his victims and didn't think of them as human beings. I dont know if he started out like that, but he said in his Time Magazine interview on the question-"What goes through your mind when you kill someone?" that-"I'm not over there looking at these people as people. I'm not wondering if he has a family. I'm just trying to keep my guys safe."

On the question- "Some snipers leave a target alive so they can shoot the people who come to his aid. Do you think this is O.K.?" he said- "I think so. I've never done it. You don't have to leave them alive for someone to come help them. With the Muslim faith, they need to be buried before either the sun goes down or the sun comes up. So they'll come get the body." - so it's then when he actually picks many of them off, when they come for the guys body to bury him, I guess.

This man was probably a young innocent kid once. War and training made him into something different.

I would guess a major part of the soldiers are signing up of two reasons, 1) is that they are swept in by the glorification of being a soldier that rarely focus on how it is and how it will affect you as a person to take another mans life in battle. To actually extinguish another persons life and see it leave his body is something that would only leave a psychotic mind undisturbed.
Many battle situations these days are "detached" in a sort of "boom-cool-hellyeah-did-you-see-that?-CallOfDuty-onTVscreen"-kind of way, and does not really "compute" in the minds of some soldiers. The men on the ground though, fighting eye to eye gets aware of the ramification of war pretty quick, I imagine.

2) The second reason is that being a soldier is, for may poor uneducated boys, the only ticket to anything here in life. And being 18-20 y.o many dont have the insight what war really means on the ground, and how their psyche and body would actually exit that process, if the come out of it alive at all. Going from a 20y.o kid in perfect health to a 23y.o without an arm and a leg, and a mind fractured by PTSD inst really that glorifying that the recruiter make it sound to be. War is a awful ******* thing that no man or women should have to go through.
But once there, and on the ground, it is the Generals wars, and the kids on the ground just fight for the buddy besides him, and his own life, and really dont know why they are there many times.

But then we have a third reason for some people being a soldier, and that is because they actually enjoy the violence, and killing another human being is desireful for them.Those are psychotics and I dont think that the percentage, of these kinds of people, are that low in the military that some would like to think it is.

Well you'd have to think like that. Give some sort of justification to what you are doing. If he thought about every guy he pulled the trigger on, he would have lost the plot over there and never returned home.

I agree with the last two points also.