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'War on Terror' - by design - can never end


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#31    Yamato

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

The conspiratorial elements in the wake of 9/11, mostly the hiding of facts from the public, were to keep people, as the 9/11 Commissioners wrote after many hours of expert testimony, "from reassessing that [Middle East] policy."    And some people have the audacity to wonder why I question this insane "alliance" between Israel and the US.  3,000 Americans were vaporized and the rest of the country had to be lied to, so we can't question the motives for it because the policy is more important than telling people the truth.  People should be behind bars over this BS.   This is almost treasonous.   They "hate me for my freedom"?  No, Military Industrial Complex, I hate you for your "freedom", now get your mass murder toys out of the sandbox, get inside, sit down, shut up and behave yourselves.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#32    Drayno

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 14 January 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

‘Overseas Contingency Operation.’

Just another example of Orwellian Newspeak...

Call a war by another name so there ain't no war to talk about.

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- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#33    and then

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 14 January 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I'm speaking of the events of 11 September only.  Not sure of the specifics of 'numerous acts.'

The reasons for 911 is not JUST money and profit, but those are certainly a significant part of the motives.

Also, destruction of evidence, allowing certain Securities to be cashed in anonymously, traumatizing the psyche of the american people (terrorizing them), weakening constitutional safeguards against government intrusion, growing the federal bureaucracy, spawning 2 interminable wars, advancing Israeli interests, and advancing empire for the oil industry.



I think the Israeli government was equally complicit.
So  you do actually believe it was all a conspiracy.  To be clear - I HATE what has happened to our freedoms in the aftermath of 9-11.  I would rather die in a terror attack on my homeland while living free than to be kept safe in chains.  But I just cannot believe - allow myself to believe that the US government is as thoroughly corrupt as you think it is.  Maybe I'm a fool.  My whole life I was told we were the good guys - and I still believe that good flows more from our free thinking than from the craziness we see in other systems.  But it is also  undeniable that our government has become massively corrupted in the past few decades.  I guess I just rebel against the idea that the America I grew up in is gone.  Because I believe that if it is, then the world is going too.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#34    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

View Postand then, on 15 January 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

So  you do actually believe it was all a conspiracy.  To be clear - I HATE what has happened to our freedoms in the aftermath of 9-11.  I would rather die in a terror attack on my homeland while living free than to be kept safe in chains.  But I just cannot believe - allow myself to believe that the US government is as thoroughly corrupt as you think it is.  Maybe I'm a fool.  My whole life I was told we were the good guys - and I still believe that good flows more from our free thinking than from the craziness we see in other systems.  But it is also  undeniable that our government has become massively corrupted in the past few decades.  I guess I just rebel against the idea that the America I grew up in is gone.  Because I believe that if it is, then the world is going too.
trhe trouble as I see it with that theory is that it supposes the Govt. is so super-efficient that it can not only devise such a huge plot, but carry out it out, without the opportunity to rehearse beforehand, flawlessly, and keep it secret ever since; for more than 10 years now. That seems somewhat unlikely to me. It seems just the opposite to what all the other evidence points towards.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#35    lightly

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

where people go wrong is...  in thinking that the entire, or a major portion of, the U.S.  Government is involved in some giant conspiracy.   No.    There is a grand chaotic, and competitive,  design behind what goes on in the world,  but  basically,  the government is dragged along with the rest of us.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#36    Yamato

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:45 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 15 January 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

trhe trouble as I see it with that theory is that it supposes the Govt. is so super-efficient that it can not only devise such a huge plot, but carry out it out, without the opportunity to rehearse beforehand, flawlessly, and keep it secret ever since; for more than 10 years now. That seems somewhat unlikely to me. It seems just the opposite to what all the other evidence points towards.
Agreed.   They planted the explosives right under thousands of peoples' noses, then directed in the jets conveniently flown by Muslims from Iraq (well, close enough anyway) as a cover for the real operation, and then everyone who had any hand in this grandiose trick is so loyal to their boss's boss's boss in the bureaucracy hierarchy, they wouldn't tell their country the truth in over a decade.  What crack pipe are these people smoking?  Some people have the most amazing capacities to believe in the silliest of imaginations.

And why don't all these Republican-party hating truthers and ex-truthers think that Obama is directly involved when he announced as soon as he was elected President that we won't be doing any investigating of the previous administration?   When all those chickenhawks were getting off the hook for their roles in this?   When they knew full well how many government employees keep their jobs between one President and another?   The truther conspiracy crowd (not to mention the anti-war movement in general) nearly disappeared once they got their preferred butter boy in the White House.  Only the vestiges that truly hated their government regardless of party remained.   Democrats are almost sleazy how compliant they get when one of theirs is pushing all the same buttons.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#37    Babe Ruth

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

View Postand then, on 15 January 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

So  you do actually believe it was all a conspiracy.  To be clear - I HATE what has happened to our freedoms in the aftermath of 9-11.  I would rather die in a terror attack on my homeland while living free than to be kept safe in chains.  But I just cannot believe - allow myself to believe that the US government is as thoroughly corrupt as you think it is.  Maybe I'm a fool.  My whole life I was told we were the good guys - and I still believe that good flows more from our free thinking than from the craziness we see in other systems.  But it is also  undeniable that our government has become massively corrupted in the past few decades.  I guess I just rebel against the idea that the America I grew up in is gone.  Because I believe that if it is, then the world is going too.

You have just expressed the EXACT SAME thoughts and feelings I have, sir.  We may disagree on some things, but you're no fool.

All I can say is that Ike warned us in 1961.  What we have today I am very ashamed of, but it's been a long time coming, and is the logical result of decades of governance NOT in accord with constitutional principles.

As I see it, the US government has been hijacked.  Can't say when, but Ike's comments in 1961 are helpful.

Today, much of that untoward influence comes from Israel.  Like it or not, we have a situation in which AIPAC is extremely influential in what the government does.  Like it or not, we have Israeli nationals, citizens, holding appointed and elected offices throughout government.  With Rahm as Chief Of Staff, we had an Israeli national working in the White House.  They are federal judges and representatives.

I fully respect the right and need for an Israeli state, but it just seems to me that the tail is wagging the dog.





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