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Sphinx and GP dates from 10 500 BC?


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#1501    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

Also when we touch Atlantis. Could it be that nymphs on dolphins were in fact:

http://www.youtube.c...gt_dhQ#t=12m00s

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#1502    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

Edited to remove the long rant :lol:
I post this link so those not familiar with exactly how wierd and sinister some of these alternaviks are, can see what happens behind the scenes. In my opinion, the site I link to is very sinister and may explain why some posters behave as they do....
http://www.debunking...om/Contents.htm

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 07 December 2012 - 03:41 PM.


#1503    cormac mac airt

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

View Postthe L, on 07 December 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Then what do you say about this below. Could it be that Auriteans were in fact Auliteans? Atlanteans were foreigners to Egyptians.



Auriteans is the name given by the ancient writer Manetho to the first kings to rule over Egypt during the “reign of the gods”. R. Cedric Leonard comments on this on his website and in his books(a)[130][131].

“Plato described Atlantis as being ruled by ten kings before its demise. Egyptian king-lists going back thousands of years before Plato (we will look at one example here) establish four important facts, which we should note:

Egyptian tradition begins with the “reign of the gods”
In all there were ten of these so-called “god-kings”
They were said to have reigned in a foreign country
From all appearances they were called “Atlanteans”
This last statement will be challenged by scholars, so let’s take a closer look at the Egyptian king-lists. One noticeable fact is that Manetho (250 B.C.) calls the first series of kings who ruled during the “reign of the gods,” Auriteans. This seems to be nothing more than a corruption of the word “Atlantean”. Let me explain.

Egyptian hieroglyphics only approximate real sounds: for instance, a hieroglyphic “k” must be used to represent the hard “g” sound. The hieroglyph that Manetho transcribed as r can equally be transcribed as an l. Thus the “Auriteans” of Manetho’s king-lists could just as well be “Auliteans”: phonetically almost identical to “Atlanteans”. This idea obtains credible support from the fact that the ancient Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) calls these very same kings “Aleteans” [714]( B). Isn’t it likely that Aleteans=Atlanteans?”

In spite of this valiant attempt to equate the Egyptian king lists with the kings of Atlantis, it must be pointed out that the ten Atlantean kings noted by Plato were brothers and so reigned concurrently over different part of the empire, whereas the king lists cited by Leonard relate to kings that reigned successively.

http://atlantipedia....ples/auriteans/

Actually it's give by Manetho as "Aeritae". Considering what we know about the predecessors of AE civilization as well as a nearby named Sea, it's more likely that Aeritae is a corruption of Eritrea or Erythraean, either of which would place any such origins of peoples in eastern Africa.

http://archive.org/s...neuoft_djvu.txt

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1504    Alcibiades9

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 07 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Edited to remove the long rant :lol:
I post this link so those not familiar with exactly how wierd and sinister some of these alternaviks are, can see what happens behind the scenes. In my opinion, the site I link to is very sinister and may explain why some posters behave as they do....
http://www.debunking...om/Contents.htm

I've had a quick look and have to admit I can't tell whether the site is claiming to debunk, or to debunk the debunkers.  The quotes by Whitley Strieber and others seem to contradict the claim made by the site itself.

What is interesting is your simplistic approach of lumping people who offer alternative takes on ancient Egypt with people who make outlandish claims about the paranormal.  This is a rather weak attempt at conflation, and I think someone else has already used the term straw man on here to highlight just how transparent and self-defeating your approach is.  In the uk we also call it an aunt Sally.

Let me turn it around on you...

Your "purist" approach to ancient Egypt - brooking no opposition and tolerating no other interpretations of the evidence except the orthodox, along with your habit of smearing your "enemies" - reminds me of the Nazis.  I have therefore looked at neo nazi sites to see why you behave as you do...   Ooooh...all rather sinister.  

Do you see what I'm doing here?  And isn't it ridiculous?

At least two of the "alternaviks" who post here clearly know a lot more about orthodox Egyptology than you, the self styled guardian of the truth.

If you want to post a link to a paranormal site, do it on a paranormal thread.  No one on here is talking about the paranormal, so stop throwing mud around in the hope that some of it sticks.  Utterly desperate.




#1505    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

View PostAlcibiades9, on 07 December 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

I've had a quick look and have to admit I can't tell whether the site is claiming to debunk, or to debunk the debunkers.  The quotes by Whitley Strieber and others seem to contradict the claim made by the site itself.

What is interesting is your simplistic approach of lumping people who offer alternative takes on ancient Egypt with people who make outlandish claims about the paranormal.  This is a rather weak attempt at conflation, and I think someone else has already used the term straw man on here to highlight just how transparent and self-defeating your approach is.  In the uk we also call it an aunt Sally.

Let me turn it around on you...

Your "purist" approach to ancient Egypt - brooking no opposition and tolerating no other interpretations of the evidence except the orthodox, along with your habit of smearing your "enemies" - reminds me of the Nazis.  I have therefore looked at neo nazi sites to see why you behave as you do...   Ooooh...all rather sinister.  

Do you see what I'm doing here?  And isn't it ridiculous?

At least two of the "alternaviks" who post here clearly know a lot more about orthodox Egyptology than you, the self styled guardian of the truth.

If you want to post a link to a paranormal site, do it on a paranormal thread.  No one on here is talking about the paranormal, so stop throwing mud around in the hope that some of it sticks.  Utterly desperate.
Slow learner aren't you, and you lag behind me...
Garbage post and you know it. Nowhere do I ever claim any truth. The sinister aspect of the site is the quasi marxist cum relgious fundamentalist language used. Language that turns reality inside out. It is you who comes here and makes to be some arbiter of truth etc. Your comments about me are wrong and garbage. You are yet another arrogant pompous bore with no sense of humour. Who do you think you are to lecture anybody in the pompous way you do. Try this nonsence on somebody else mister, to me you are an empty mask and a sock puppet. Besides, you cannot even understand the purpose of my post. It was not about paranormal, as your last garbage paragraph says. You twist words and flash mirrors and blow smoke. You have added nothing of value to this thread, all you do is launch attacks, for what purpose? to enforce "correct thinking" to make you feel good. You come across as pathetic bully. On this forum I only pretend to be a fool, you are a fool, and are not even funny.....

edited several times for various reasons, once to remove words that I know google will not translate :)

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 07 December 2012 - 06:00 PM.


#1506    Alcibiades9

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Slow learner aren't you, and you lag behind me...
Garbage post and you know it. Nowhere do I ever claim any truth. The sinister aspect of the site is the quasi marxist cum relgious fundamentalist language used. Language that turns reality inside out. It is you who comes here and makes to be some arbiter of truth etc. Your comments about me are wrong and garbage. You are yet another arrogant pompous bore with no sense of humour. Who do you think you are to lecture anybody in the pompous way you do. Try this nonsence on somebody else mister, to me you are an empty mask and a sock puppet. Besides, you cannot even understand the purpose of my post. It was not about paranormal, as your last garbage paragraph says. You twist words and flash mirrors and blow smoke. You have added nothing of value to this thread, all you do is launch attacks, for what purpose? to enforce "correct thinking" to make you feel good. You come across as pathetic bully. On this forum I only pretend to be a fool, you are a fool, and are not even funny.....

edited several times for various reasons, once to remove words that I know google will not translate :)

Apology accepted. :yes:


#1507    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

че


#1508    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?



View Postcormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Actually it's give by Manetho as "Aeritae". Considering what we know about the predecessors of AE civilization as well as a nearby named Sea, it's more likely that Aeritae is a corruption of Eritrea or Erythraean, either of which would place any such origins of peoples in eastern Africa.

http://archive.org/s...neuoft_djvu.txt

cormac


Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?

Edited by the L, 07 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#1509    cladking

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 06 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Actually only people who have studied and learned to read hieroglyphics can give an accurate translation of what they say.  Yes he has his opinion but it is not based on his ability to read hieroglyphics.  Further he indicates that those who translate hieroglyphics are giving nothing but opinions which we know is incorrect.

The first statement is redundant and has no meaning.  It also implies a falsehood because
translators say they don't understand the meaning of the PT and can only "circumscribe" its
meaning.  It follows that we don't know that the translation is accurate.  We only know the mean-
ing of some of the words and phrases rather than having some absolute standard to which we
can compare the intended meaning to our translated meaning.  This is where the real problem
begins and makes your second statement irrelevant in my opinion.  We don't understand the
translations.  We believe they are incantation and magic but there's no proof because there's
no standard and, in this case, there's almost nothing with which to compare it other than relig-
ious texts from thousands of years later.  We can clearly see the PT did indeed evolve into the
later works but this hardly means that the PT can be understood in terms of those later works.
This allows anyone free interpretation of the translations. Obviously, no one can legitimately re-
translate this material unless he has specific knowledge but I don't see anyone doing this.  Say-
ing that there are other interpretations of the writing seems  obvious beyond the need to even
state it since no one can seem to agree on the meaning of anything at all in the PT.  If Egyptol-
ologists don't agree on anything then obviously they might be wrong about everything.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1510    cormac mac airt

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

View Postthe L, on 07 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?

Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?

Outside of Eusebius' writings there's no actual evidence that Sanchuniathon was a real person, nor even that said person lived in the 12th century BC. It's more hear-say than fact.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1511    Quaentum

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

View Postcladking, on 07 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

The first statement is redundant and has no meaning.  It also implies a falsehood because
translators say they don't understand the meaning of the PT and can only "circumscribe" its
meaning.  It follows that we don't know that the translation is accurate.  We only know the mean-
ing of some of the words and phrases rather than having some absolute standard to which we
can compare the intended meaning to our translated meaning.  This is where the real problem
begins and makes your second statement irrelevant in my opinion.  We don't understand the
translations.  We believe they are incantation and magic but there's no proof because there's
no standard and, in this case, there's almost nothing with which to compare it other than relig-
ious texts from thousands of years later.  We can clearly see the PT did indeed evolve into the
later works but this hardly means that the PT can be understood in terms of those later works.
This allows anyone free interpretation of the translations. Obviously, no one can legitimately re-
translate this material unless he has specific knowledge but I don't see anyone doing this.  Say-
ing that there are other interpretations of the writing seems  obvious beyond the need to even
state it since no one can seem to agree on the meaning of anything at all in the PT.  If Egyptol-
ologists don't agree on anything then obviously they might be wrong about everything.

Since the PT is not the sum total of all hieroglyphics, to try to make it so, invalidating my statement is itself invalid.  My statement is true for any written language.  If you have studied and can read French but I can not, anything that I might say is opinion but what you say would be based on your ability to read it.

There is a big difference between varying interpretations of the translations as you are indicating and saying that the translations themselves are nothing but opinion as LRW is saying.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#1512    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 07 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Outside of Eusebius' writings there's no actual evidence that Sanchuniathon was a real person, nor even that said person lived in the 12th century BC. It's more hear-say than fact.

cormac

So many ancient work we ve lost that one is more then enough... if Eusebius didnt lied about another things why would about one Phoenecian... Anyway did he realy say Aleteans?

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#1513    cladking

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 07 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Since the PT is not the sum total of all hieroglyphics, to try to make it so, invalidating my statement is itself invalid.  My statement is true for any written language.  If you have studied and can read French but I can not, anything that I might say is opinion but what you say would be based on your ability to read it.

The PT is very nearly the sum total of all writing before the 6th dynasty.  Almost
everything else is lists and lists can't provide grammar.

If I translate something into French then there are absolute standards on which to
base the quality of the translation and the skill that was used to capture the orig-
inal meaning.  The translation can be "graded" on its accuracy.  This simply doesn't
apply to translations of the PT.  But even if it could be judged for its accuracy, the
nature of the writing is such that it is open to interpretation.  I don't see that anyone's
interpretation can be set in stone so long as the meaning is unknown.

Quote

There is a big difference between varying interpretations of the translations as you are indicating and saying that the translations themselves are nothing but opinion as LRW is saying.

If it's true that the meaning is unknown then to a very real extent the translations are
actually only opinion.  Look at the wide variation in the translations.  They can't all be
right so maybe they are all wrong.  I somehow missed LRW's rendering of meaning but
so long as he didn't attempt retranslation then it might certainly be valid.

Perhaps I'm speaking generally when I should be speaking specifically.  I'll review the
thread.

After reviewing the thread it appears you might well be right since LRW never mentioned what specific knowledge led him to his conclusions.  Of course for all I know his real name is James Allen and he has more right than the rest of us to retranslate or form an opinion.  ;)  He was speaking generally though and I agree with many of his points.  If his only point were that Egyptologists don't know the meaning of the PT so that their interpretations are more in the realm of guesses than fact, I'd agree.  I can't agree to wholesale changes of scholarly work without delineating the specific reasons for those changes.

Edited by cladking, 07 December 2012 - 10:25 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#1514    cormac mac airt

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:32 PM

View Postthe L, on 07 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

So many ancient work we ve lost that one is more then enough... if Eusebius didnt lied about another things why would about one Phoenecian... Anyway did he realy say Aleteans?

From what I've seen, the closest to Aleteans is Aletae which is equated with Titans. Nowhere are they suggested as being peoples of Atlantis.

https://docs.google....?hl=en_GB&pli=1

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1515    Alcibiades9

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

View Postthe L, on 07 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

When I was first time in Egypt I wonder how those people managed to live on 50 C. Then one Egyptian told me that he and his family are awake in 3 in the morning and work till 11. I remembered then stories about crazy ruler in Egypt who proclaims law that people must sleep at day and work at night. I tried to think where pyramids would fitt in that story. They could be Public light?No. Lighthouses? For aliens for Vimanas? No. For travelers. Possible?


In Ancient Rome all commercial traffic was restricted to night time.  From a purely practical point of view, those of us in chillier northern climes perhaps overlook the fact that in warmer climes it is perhaps better to work and play at night and sleep during the hottest hours of the day.  I am reminded of this in Spain when I am - idiot!- the only person wandering round the scorched streets during siesta wondering where the hell everyone else is.   I presume the pyramids would have been built in the cool of the night.



Do you know anything about Sanchuniathon (1193 BC) and how he calls these 10 kings Aleteans ?






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