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Obama's Legacy


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#16    Dan'O

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

And what would happen if you were forced to raise wages? Business raise prices or they fail.


#17    Gromdor

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

You forget that with increased minimum wages and increased prices comes increased income tax and sales tax revenues!
  Honestly, I could go both ways with this issue.  Right now if you worked full time at minimum wage you would make $15,080 a year. (7.25X40X52)  When I see that number, I see someone who is most likely uninsured, likely without a retirement or savings, and likely receiving government aid.
That is why stores like Walmart annoy me.  They operate knowing that they are making a profit while passing on the costs of their employees onto the public (me).  Raising minimum wage would just cause them to increase the price of their product maintaining their profit margin and forcing the new minimum wage to be unlivable without government aid again.  Businesses are about making money for businesses after all and could care less about America.


#18    hatecraft

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

There should me no minimum wage at all.


#19    F3SS

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:20 PM

View PostCradle of Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:



Yes such a barbarically low minimum wage has to do with 'instilling discipline' and not corporate greed.  And why are the people at the bottom of society the ones who need discipline? It's all the ones at the top who act recklessly and cause economic carnage for the rest of us.

Frankly I was astounded when I heard that Obama wants to raise the minimum wage in the US to ten dollars an hour. In Australia it's about $16-18. Even more astounding is the notion that people are going to oppose it when it really is a great way to combag poverty.

Boohoo with your use of the word barbaric. You're quick to blurt bleeding heart nonsense.
I wasn't talking about instilling discipline on employees or learning the value of a dollar. That stuff is self taught or instilled by upbringing. I'm talking about the need for limits in general when it comes to the economy. If there are to be no limits how about $45 hour minimum wage. Why not? I know. Because the economy would collapse. Prices would be laughably high but it's really irrelevant because that would be unsustainable. All I'm saying is that there is no sustainability without limitations. If you need more clarification on the ramifications of wage increases look back to Jeremiah's post. It was excellent and made sense.
Don't compare our economies either. Australia is nearly the size of the US with the population of NYC, just one city here.

View PostBama13, on 27 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Haha. That is funny. I managed various fast food restaurants for 10 years. Their labor is based on sales. You get x amount of labor dollars for y amout of sales. So unless sales increase labor dollars remain the same. Therefore what you get is less hours. You end up making the same amount as before, just work less hours. Then service suffers because there are fewer employees working. Then sales might suffer because service is worse. If sales goes down labor dollars go down. Now you are making less than you did before.
You forgot to mention that if the business decides that it needs to keep up with high demand it would then have to increase the hours or hire new people. That will result in more expensive cheeseburgers. But in order to keep the cheeseburgers at the existing price then everything you said would happen for sure.


View PostGromdor, on 27 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

They operate knowing that they are making a profit while passing on the costs of their employees onto the public (me).  
Since that is the bare bones of business 101, well, what do you expect them to do? Sell items at cost!? Ha!

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#20    Bama13

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostGromdor, on 27 February 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

That is why stores like Walmart annoy me.  They operate knowing that they are making a profit while passing on the costs of their employees onto the public (me).  Raising minimum wage would just cause them to increase the price of their product maintaining their profit margin and forcing the new minimum wage to be unlivable without government aid again.  Businesses are about making money for businesses after all and could care less about America.

Why single out Walmart? All business pass all costs of their products to the customers. If you don't you will have to close your doors. Only the government can operate at a loss every year. Every other business needs to at least break even. But there is no sense in operating a business that only breaks even every year, so they close also.

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#21    Gromdor

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Eh, I am not complaining about the costs of their products, I am complaining about the tax costs of the food stamps and welfare I am paying for their employees.  It's basically me opening a store and paying employee X a crappy wage, getting a profit and laughing to myself because I know that the government is picking up the tab.  But, it's not the government picking up the tab, It's you Mr. Fess and Bama13.  That's what drives me batty about businesses like that.  Paying welfare for a bum that sits on their butts and does nothing annoys me, but paying welfare for a someone working 40hr weeks because a business is gaming the system annoys me as well.


#22    Pyridium

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:20 PM

I agree, Bama13.  It would appear that most posters here tend to see everything in the micro.  What a shame, they miss the big picture.  Obama is not interested in fixing this country, on the contrary, he insists that the economy is doing just fine, all we need is more taxes from every job holder.  His focus is on moving this country off of its axis so that his vision will continue in perpatuatity.  Small steps toward socialism, no, he is steering us from his soap box pulpit into a total govt controlled society.  Democrats, liberals and progressives do not see the big picture, they have the blinders on.  We have no problems at all, but if we do it must be the republicans fault.

btw, Before Obama, a part time minimum wage job was just a stepping stone to gaining higher credit scores, climbing the ladder in the company or adding something important to your resume.  EXPERIENCE

Since Obama, any job must come with a "living wage".  What a joke!!!!!   He has no concept of business, economics and common sense when it comes to leading this country out of our problems, oh no, he has a pure agenda for social change, not social unity.

Edited by Pyridium, 27 February 2013 - 07:26 PM.


#23    Clyde the Glyde

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

Obama's legacy ??

One word - DEBT


#24    F3SS

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostGromdor, on 27 February 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Eh, I am not complaining about the costs of their products, I am complaining about the tax costs of the food stamps and welfare I am paying for their employees.  It's basically me opening a store and paying employee X a crappy wage, getting a profit and laughing to myself because I know that the government is picking up the tab.  But, it's not the government picking up the tab, It's you Mr. Fess and Bama13.  That's what drives me batty about businesses like that.  Paying welfare for a bum that sits on their butts and does nothing annoys me, but paying welfare for a someone working 40hr weeks because a business is gaming the system annoys me as well.
I understand your pov but don't agree. Couple reasons... The only I can save from grocery shopping at Walmart only a few times a year more than makes up for my share of taxes toward these folks welfare. At least these folks are working. The worlds largest employer provides billions of dollars in consumer cost savings in a year that can be spent infusing the economy elsewhere. I don't want to get into another Walmart debate but economically they do more good than harm.
As for food stamps... Let's not pass blame. The blame lies solely on the lawmakers.

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#25    hatecraft

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

I get so tired of people bashing Walmart.


#26    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:50 PM

View Posthatecraft, on 27 February 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

There should me no minimum wage at all.
Quite right, why should the government supposedly elected by the people stand up for the people and ensure they get paid enough to pay their bills and feed themselves?

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#27    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

View PostDan, on 27 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

And what would happen if you were forced to raise wages? Business raise prices or they fail.
Businesses'll raise prices anyway, might as well have be because of something positive for their workers for once and not because of "market pressure" or "the changing face of supply and demand in a globalised economy".

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#28    Dan'O

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:20 PM

Or the larger companies that post large profits can be forced to trickle that down and increase remuneration of low-wage workers...


#29    ninjadude

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:30 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 27 February 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

There always has to be limits. Limits instill discipline. At some point it becomes unsustainable.

no there doesn't has to be limits. I don't care bout your discipline. And unsustainable how? Sure if everything else remained the same then yes. But everything else does NOT remain the same.

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#30    ninjadude

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:38 AM

View PostPyridium, on 27 February 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

There are a few ppl that throw around words like, "bullcrap" and "hogwash" to insult any view that does not comport to their extremely narrow field of vision of reality.  I enjoy the way that Ninjadude can take any sentence and come up with something completely different because he has all the answers and everybody else is totally wrong.  I read this forum often, and post rarely as I tend to let the socially obsessive and mentally challenged people make fools of themselves.  I refuse to get into a fact for fact, you are wrong, I am right, it was his fault, not my fault style of discussions.  I talk more from a Macro perspective, not a Micro, trivial way.

When I say that Obama has destroyed the Republicans, I mean that the Democratic press has successfully labeled them as racist, out of touch, morons.  The Occupy movement has won, and Obama is their leader.  Over 50% of americans are on some kind of govt. dole and Obama is their leader.  Obama is the first president that has ignored the country as a whole, and did everything he could to tear down our capitalistic system, redistribute to those that need from those that can provide.  According to Obama, we have no debt problem, we have a tax problem.   We don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem.  Oh, by the way, Benghazi was the fault of a video.

You whine about not wanting to get into "facts" and then spew ignorant untruths in the very next paragraph. Occupy has no affiliation with the current government or vice versa. 50% of Americans is BS but the high level is because of the RECESSION. What would you do with the unemployed? Obama is the leader of the entire nation not just 50% of Americans. Obama has not ignored the country - that's rich - nor has he done anything to "tear down captialism". If anything he could be accused of being too much in bed with some of them.  Governments can run deficits. It's called deficit spending and had been done many decades. As I said before the government did not "fault the video" but freely admitted mistakes. Had you actually listened. I don't see much "macro" in your spiel but do see a lot of just plain falsehoods.

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