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How Bad is UK Unemployment?


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#1    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:39 AM

I love the Tories (I am one afterall!) but I think the Government is cooking the books with unemployment figures.

Officially unemployment is supposed to be at about 2.5 million but the definition of unemployed used in UK National Statistics is either -
1. Unemployed, seeking work and on benefits.
2. Unemployed, seeking work but not on benefits.

Certain types of people arent classed as unemployed because they fall through these criteria -
1. People claiming benefits who are sanctioned.
2. People claiming benefits and being made to attend a Government funded training scheme (happens to all claiments after 6 months of unemployment).
3. Youngsters on benefits being made to work for free as a work trial.
4. People unemployed who have given up.

I think UK unemployment is nearer 8 million not 2.5 million. What do you lot think and are you peeved at Cameron?


#2    Sean93

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

Well in my city, Derry There was a single job going for general work at a petrol station: 400 Applicants.

A premier Inn is opening in the city soon; 36 positions, 5000 applicants.

8-10 jobs were going at Tesco; 4000 applicants, half of whom were students.

It's certainly not good. I like the work schemes though; they're a good idea. They'll separate the meretricious 'job seekers' from those who actually deserve to get benefits such as JSA. A friend of a Friends dad has been on the dole for like 50 years...HAHAHA, madness. After the army he was straight to the old job center and the rest is history.

There was a uni graduate who applied for over 200 jobs but got nothing and so she killed herself. I know a girl who graduated in physics and is working at the counters in a cinema.

Edited by Sean93, 18 January 2013 - 01:51 AM.

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#3    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

View PostSean93, on 18 January 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Well in my city, Derry There was a single job going for general work at a petrol station: 400 Applicants.

A premier Inn is opening in the city soon; 36 positions, 5000 applicants.

8-10 jobs were going at Tesco; 4000 applicants, half of whom were students.

It's certainly not good. I like the work schemes though; they're a good idea. They'll separate the meretricious 'job seekers' from those who actually deserve to get benefits such as JSA. A friend of a Friends dad has been on the dole for like 50 years...HAHAHA, madness. After the army he was straight to the old job center and the rest is history.

There was a uni graduate who applied for over 200 jobs but got nothing and so she killed herself. I know a girl who graduated in physics and is working at the counters in a cinema.
#

Half of the worlds physicists are employed at CERN and the rest spend their days sat at home lol. It wouldnt surprise me if the UK only actually has 1000 physicist positions and yet it churns out that number of them every year from uni. Complete waste of time!

In my city theres about 40,000 unemployed (probably about 5000 in the governments figures). Most of the shops have closed down, our HMV and Blockbuster video outlets will be going soon, its quite literally like a ghost town.

I can see riots coming like in Greece if this lasts another 5 years.


#4    stevewinn

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

the unemployment figure will always be higher than the statistics show - the statistics only show the numbers claiming unemployment benefit. but what of the households where a couple are living off their partners single income/salary. until they find employment. -  but then again, there are more people in work than ever before, 29 million.

What we have to remember is we had a labour government who devalued the higher education system. believing everyone could go to university / get a degree. what then happens is we have more graduates than positions avaliable. the majority of these people after three to five years of study believe certain jobs are beneath them. then the reality really sets in, only the select few will go on to work in the sectors they've studied for the last five years. lumping themselves in debt. how many of us can point to examples of people who are overly qualified, with degrees etc.. - working in pubs/bars, customer services etc....

Edited by stevewinn, 18 January 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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#5    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 18 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

the unemployment figure will always be higher than the statistics show - the statistics only show the numbers claiming unemployment benefit. but what of the households where a couple are living off their partners single income/salary. until they find employment. -  but then again, there are more people in work than ever before, 29 million.

What we have to remember is we had a labour government who devalued the higher education system. believing everyone could go to university / get a degree. what then happens is we have more graduates than positions avaliable. the majority of these people after three to five years of study believe certain jobs are beneath them. then the reality really sets in, only the select few will go on to work in the sectors they've studied for the last five years. lumping themselves in debt. how many of us can point to examples of people who are overly qualified, with degrees etc.. - working in pubs/bars, customer services etc....

I'm one of those who never got a job using their degree.

Ended up in sales. The funny thing is I actually earn more money doing sales anyway lol.


#6    Bonecrusher

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 18 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

#

Half of the worlds physicists are employed at CERN and the rest spend their days sat at home lol. It wouldnt surprise me if the UK only actually has 1000 physicist positions and yet it churns out that number of them every year from uni. Complete waste of time!


Those physics degrees might as well be confetti.
They could always do a Brian Cox and tinkle the ivories in a cheesy pop band.
This is why he's in a perpetual state of bliss because he benefited from a student grant not a student loan.
And he had his five minutes of fame but he wanted an extra half hour.
Don't get me wrong because he's a fine physicist who does well to simplify the subject for the masses.
Nowadays is a different reality with physics students working in Maccy D's just to pay off their student loans.
But the job market is so saturated their residence could be more permanent.

Trust the Tory government to cook up some more bogus unemployment figures.
The appliciant/ jobs ratio certainly bears out the true reason.
It's about time somebody did some number crunching.

Edited by Medium Brown, 18 January 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#7    ealdwita

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

Don't worry, there'll be half a million Bulgarians packing their Union Jacks and heading for Calais before the year's out. That'll alter the unemployment figures! Don't you just love being culturally enriched?

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#8    AsteroidX

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

USofA uses the same cooked books. Even the reemployed loste good paying jobs that were replaced with minimum wage no benefit jobs.


#9    Br Cornelius

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

What you are actually witnessing is the inevitable collapse of an economic system which was built on cheap energy. As energy continues t5o rise more and more of the "Luxury" activities we defined as our culture will no longer be affordable and so all of those service jobs we created to replace manufacturing will disappear in a puff of purple magic smoke.
unemployment was written in to the story at the very beginning when we told ourselves the fantasy that there would always be plenty of cheap fuel to fuel endless economic growth. Economic growth requires a steady expansion of the cheap energy supply (so everything we have is a manifestation of cheap energy) so economic growth has ended for good, but we haven't realised it yet. Are there any companies out there who will be prepared to create jobs with little or no prospect of making a profit - NO.
We either decide to do things because they have to be done, or we just stop doing things - which means mass unemployment as the new normal.

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#10    Yes_Man

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

View Postealdwita, on 18 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Don't worry, there'll be half a million Bulgarians packing their Union Jacks and heading for Calais before the year's out. That'll alter the unemployment figures! Don't you just love being culturally enriched?
Nah kick the chavs out


#11    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:21 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 19 January 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

What you are actually witnessing is the inevitable collapse of an economic system which was built on cheap energy. As energy continues t5o rise more and more of the "Luxury" activities we defined as our culture will no longer be affordable and so all of those service jobs we created to replace manufacturing will disappear in a puff of purple magic smoke.
unemployment was written in to the story at the very beginning when we told ourselves the fantasy that there would always be plenty of cheap fuel to fuel endless economic growth. Economic growth requires a steady expansion of the cheap energy supply (so everything we have is a manifestation of cheap energy) so economic growth has ended for good, but we haven't realised it yet. Are there any companies out there who will be prepared to create jobs with little or no prospect of making a profit - NO.
We either decide to do things because they have to be done, or we just stop doing things - which means mass unemployment as the new normal.

Br Cornelius

I've no clue what planet you live on.

We have high unemployment because demand for products and services is low. This is because firms with large debts tightened their belts after the banking crises. Austerity also reduces the money being spent in the economy reducing demand further.


#12    Br Cornelius

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 19 January 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I've no clue what planet you live on.

We have high unemployment because demand for products and services is low. This is because firms with large debts tightened their belts after the banking crises. Austerity also reduces the money being spent in the economy reducing demand further.
Symptoms rather than causes.
What happens when 50% of a products cost comes from oil, and then oil triples in cost ? That product has to go up by double. For most people a product which has doubled in cost is no longer desirable and so demand falls. Falling demand creates redundancies.

Now tell me which part of that scenario doesn't match what has happened in the last 6 years ?

Cheap energy is the hidden engine in all economic activity and it just tripled in cost - thats enough to destroy almost all economies and especially net energy importers.
Every time there is price spike in oil a recession follows along in about two years - economic fact. Its just a systemic crunch in supply which we are currently facing.

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#13    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

Governments always 'cook the books' when it comes to unemployment. Or any statistical information, for that matter.


#14    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 19 January 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

1. Symptoms rather than causes.
2. What happens when 50% of a products cost comes from oil, and then oil triples in cost? That product has to go up by double.
3. For most people a product which has doubled in cost is no longer desirable and so demand falls.
4. Fallling demand creates redundancies.
5. Tell me which part of that scenario doesn't match what has happened in the last 6 years ?
6. Cheap energy is the hidden engine in all economic activity and it just tripled in cost - thats enough to destroy almost all economies and especially net energy importers.
7. Every time there is price spike in oil a recession follows along in about two years - economic fact. Its just a systemic crunch in supply which we are currently facing.

Br Cornelius

1. A blatent lie. The cause of the debt crises was banks giving risky credit to customers.
2. Most products (food, clothing, electronics) use very little oil. Most of them use petrol in delivery vans only and therefore a products cost does not double just because crude oil has.
3. Yes demand falls with higher prices. However you're totally over-estimating the impact of high petrol prices. With the exception of haulage companies and taxi firms most businesses spend very little on petrol.
4. That part is right.
5. All of it. The recession was caused by a banking crises and had nothing to do with petrol prices.
6. Energy is a cost for all businesses (true) however energy has not tripled in cost. Petrol has but as has been pointed out to you the only companies who use serious amounts of petrol for energy are haulage companies and taxis firms. Most businesses use electricity as their main source of energy (lighting, heating, electricity) and that is actually lower that it was during winter 6 years back.

Number 7 is a complete lie. UK recessions -
2011-2012 - Caused by European Debt Crises
2008-2009 - Caused by banks triggering a financial crises
Early 90s - Caused by savings and loan crises (program trading and overvaluation caused a crash in global stock markets)
Early 80s - Governments monetary polices to reduce inflation caused a recession
Mid 70s - Oil crises (1 example so far)
Great depression - Overvaluation in the stockmarket
etc, etc, etc. Source material - http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom

There is only 1 example of a UK recession being caused by high oil prices and that was the one in the 70s. So what in Gods name are you going on about and why do you post such nonsense?


#15    Br Cornelius

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

Ignorance is bliss Mr Right Wing. 50% of the cost of goods is in the form of energy - as I stated;

Quote

My colleagues and I at the American Enterprise Institute calculated just how much energy is used indirectly as a component of the variousgoods and services that we consume in our daily lives. What we found surprised us. For example, it turns out that nearly half (46 percent) of what people pay for energy comes “embodied” in the various goods and services that they use, and about half of that comes down to two somewhat important things: food and health care. Transportation, another important part of our economy, comes in third. Table 1 shows the top 10 ways that Americans consume indirectenergy.


http://www.american....y-is-everywhere

this especially applies to food prices but is equally applicable to all goods;

Posted Image

Posted Image
Not all recessions are caused by energy prices, and I never stated they were, however the current recession/depression was proceeded by a oil price spike in  2007 which precipitated the current crisis. The fact that the economy was a ticking time bomb of unsustainable credit doesn't change that fundamental causative element.


Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 20 January 2013 - 09:21 PM.

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