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Hajj pilgrims stone 'devil' Bush, Sharon, Blair


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#31    zephyr

zephyr

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:50 PM

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Or the Mujhadin in Afghanistan (which the US practically built), that's where Al-Qaeda orginated?
You're mixing up the Mujahedin in Afghanistan with Al-Qaeda. The US did not build the Mujahedin, but helped them fight against the 'evil empire'. Al-qaeda did not originate from Afghanistan, they were allowed to used the country as a base for a while. You need to check your facts on Afghanistan and Al-qaeda.
QUOTE
But if western forces were backing up the Croatians (which used neo-Nazi units in their corps, as well as a Nazi armoured unit), and the Mujhadin in Afghanistan, why are you so surprised to learn that they were also supporting Al-Qaeda in the Balkans?

Again you're mixing up stuff. Let me see if I can sort it out for you. I don't really see what the US support for Mujaheddin has to do with the neo-nazis in Croatia.
In the Balkans people were being massacred in day light (with the Europeans looking on) and the US intervened (late), to put an end to that barbarism. Don't waste your time in trying to convince me that the US came to help Al-Qaeda out in the Balkans. grin2.gif


#32    zephyr

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE(Redneck @ Jan 24 2005, 12:05 AM)
QUOTE
tw, it might interest you to know that India has more Muslims living in it than most of the so called Islamic World's country. In spite of occasional conflicts no religious war exists between Muslims and Hindus. The same goes for Russia (50 million Muslims), and if there was a war between Christians and Muslims there as you falsly claim, you and I would not be sitting here talking about it.


First of all Russia's population is only about 150 million, so if this were true then one third of Russia would be Muslim, and I know this is not the case.

Second of all and more importantly, Zephyr, you are attempting to ignore the religious component of these conflicts. To some extent these are religious wars.  The fact is that many Muslims are fighting non-Muslims around the world in the name of their religion. For example you casually claim that there is little or no religious conflict in India when in fact India has been wracked by horrendous religious violence that has killed thousands of people - in Gujarat, among other places. And then there's the Kashmir. You know damn well that a lot of the people fighting for independence/unification with Pakistan are fighting, at least in part, for their faith.


And about the Israeli-Palestinean issue: at least one of the reasons for this conflict's importance in the minds of Muslims is the significance Jerusalem has in Islamic theology and early Islamic history.

Nobody is saying that Islam is some monolithic bloc, and that Islam as a whole is at war with the West. You're not the only one who is aware of the ideological divisions in the Islamic world. Islam is, however, a uniting force whose appeal transcends national boundaries.  Today, a great many people in the Islamic war are at war with the West or are ideologically aligned with those who are doing the actual fighting. It would be foolish and dangerous to ignore the religious aspect of their motivation.

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About the 50 Million Muslims you're right, actually this is the number of Muslims in the ex Soviet Union. But as you know in all these central Asian republics there are a lot of Orthodox Christians mixed with Muslims and the religious and ethnic maps have not changed much since then. I don't know how many Muslims live in Russia today. no.gif
Religion, along with nationality, race and ethnicity have traditionally been tools used to motivate the masses for a certain specific worldly goal (which of course can be a positive goal or a negative one). Who can deny that religion is and has been involved in a lot of bloody conflicts such as the one you mention in India ( The colonial past of the Indian sub continent is not foreign to this phenomenon). But I don't believe that the cause of many conflicts is religious differences. One good example is the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Territory, water and other resources are the main issue, and not idealogy or religion. Of course one motivating force for both sides is religion, but the roots of the conflict are not religious in that sense. It is evident that there is no holly war declared by Muslims against the rest of the world ( as some were implying), but rather, Islam being used (positively and negatively) in different conflicts ( as other religions are and have been).  






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