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Richard Dawkins and religion


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#16    Odin11

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:18 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

So you may think, erroneously.

You're quite full of yourself, aren't you?

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire

Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing "Does not!" ~Author Unknown

#17    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:20 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

So you may think, erroneously.

My "why" in life is my family, whom i work hard for, love and protect and want to see them do the best in life.

Would you ever test your faith by reading Dawkins, The God Delusion? If not, why not?


#18    Odin11

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostGolly Buster, on 14 October 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

He's figured out that it sells books. It's sorta become his 'thing' now.

I find it somewhat funny and also a little sad that when people talk about Richard Dawkins they talk as if he only has one book, The God Delusion.


The Selfish Gene
The Extended Phenotype
The Blind Watchmaker
River Out of Eden
Climbing Mount Improbable
Unweaving the Rainbow
A Devil's Chaplain
The Ancestor's Tale
The God Delusion
The Greatest Show on Earth
The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True

Out of 11 books, only 1 is about religion.

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire

Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing "Does not!" ~Author Unknown

#19    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:28 AM

View PostOdin11, on 15 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

I find it somewhat funny and also a little sad that when people talk about Richard Dawkins they talk as if he only has one book, The God Delusion.


The Selfish Gene
The Extended Phenotype
The Blind Watchmaker
River Out of Eden
Climbing Mount Improbable
Unweaving the Rainbow
A Devil's Chaplain
The Ancestor's Tale
The God Delusion
The Greatest Show on Earth
The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True

Out of 11 books, only 1 is about religion.


The blind watchmaker and climbing mount improbable are both referenced in the god delusion to make points against creationist arguments. I bet there are other books which he will reference in the last 100 pages that i haven't read yet.

Edit to add that some of those titles have biblical references in the titles as well

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 15 October 2012 - 01:31 AM.


#20    Hasina

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:



So you may think, erroneously.
So you assume, and you know what they say about assume, don't you?

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#21    Habitat

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:53 AM

It is a perfectly healthy situation to not give a damn about religiosity in youth, it is really a matter that should only be attended to at later stages of life. Needless to say, the arrogance of youth insists they will know exactly what their attitude will be at any given age, no matter how many decades ahead that may be, and can forecast reliably that they won't be thinking any different than they do now ! But such conceits are forgiveable in the young, it is merely a reflection of how the human psyche has evolved over millions of years, to only move on to deeper matters when the more pressing concerns of becoming established in the world have been attended to. This truth is manifested in the commonplace 'resistance' among the young to the notion that there could be a kernel of deep truth in the religious traditions, a tendency that an old fraud like Dawkins is only too happy to cash in on.


#22    Hasina

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:57 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

It is a perfectly healthy situation to not give a damn about religiosity in youth, it is really a matter that should only be attended to at later stages of life. Needless to say, the arrogance of youth insists they will know exactly what their attitude will be at any given age, no matter how many decades ahead that may be, and can forecast reliably that they won't be thinking any different than they do now ! But such conceits are forgiveable in the young, it is merely a reflection of how the human psyche has evolved over millions of years, to only move on to deeper matters when the more pressing concerns of becoming established in the world have been attended to. This truth is manifested in the commonplace 'resistance' among the young to the notion that there could be a kernel of deep truth in the religious traditions, a tendency that an old fraud like Dawkins is only too happy to cash in on.
So you may think, erroneously. ;D

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#23    Odin11

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:02 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 15 October 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

The blind watchmaker and climbing mount improbable are both referenced in the god delusion to make points against creationist arguments. I bet there are other books which he will reference in the last 100 pages that i haven't read yet.

Edit to add that some of those titles have biblical references in the titles as well

Those books are about evolution not religion, he may briefly mention it but its not the purpose of the books.

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire

Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing "Does not!" ~Author Unknown

#24    Habitat

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:03 AM

View PostHasina, on 15 October 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

So you may think, erroneously. ;D
It is amazing that millenia of wisdom literature of a distinctly religious flavour is superceded by the "wisdom" of twenty-somethings. So it has always been. The old joke about the young guy who noticed his parents getting smarter as he progressed through his twenties is apposite. Wise heads on young shoulders are a rare commodity.


#25    Hasina

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:


It is amazing that millenia of wisdom literature of a distinctly religious flavour is superceded by the "wisdom" of twenty-somethings. So it has always been. The old joke about the young guy who noticed his parents getting smarter as he progressed through his twenties is apposite. Wise heads on young shoulders are a rare commodity.
I never said that the texts didn't have some wisdom in them. The 'treat your neighbor like yourself' is a great example, but holding to the belief that a god made himself into a man to die on the cross for the sins that his creations did when he gave them free will seems a bit over the top and silly to me. There's a modicum of wisdom in those books, it's much like a fairy tale, they have a moral lesson in them, but when you believe there's a evil witch living in a gingerbread house in the woods, you're taking it too seriously.

Edited by Hasina, 15 October 2012 - 02:09 AM.

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#26    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:15 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

It is a perfectly healthy situation to not give a damn about religiosity in youth, it is really a matter that should only be attended to at later stages of life. Needless to say, the arrogance of youth insists they will know exactly what their attitude will be at any given age, no matter how many decades ahead that may be, and can forecast reliably that they won't be thinking any different than they do now ! But such conceits are forgiveable in the young, it is merely a reflection of how the human psyche has evolved over millions of years, to only move on to deeper matters when the more pressing concerns of becoming established in the world have been attended to. This truth is manifested in the commonplace 'resistance' among the young to the notion that there could be a kernel of deep truth in the religious traditions, a tendency that an old fraud like Dawkins is only too happy to cash in on.

So you wouldn't be willing to test your faith by reading his books?


#27    Habitat

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:25 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 15 October 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

So you wouldn't be willing to test your faith by reading his books?

I have no particular interest in hearing about his theories about the nuts and bolts of evolution. I accept evolution as a fact, but any science pertaining it, or any science for that matter, has no bearing on what may lie on the "other side". And the other side definitely exists, from my own experiences. And I believe it completely inpenetrable to the faculties of reason and its "how and why". It calls you, you don't call it, and as long as you insist wilfully you know better, it will never call.


#28    Hasina

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:44 AM

View PostHabitat, on 15 October 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:



I have no particular interest in hearing about his theories about the nuts and bolts of evolution. I accept evolution as a fact, but any science pertaining it, or any science for that matter, has no bearing on what may lie on the "other side". And the other side definitely exists, from my own experiences. And I believe it completely inpenetrable to the faculties of reason and its "how and why". It calls you, you don't call it, and as long as you insist wilfully you know better, it will never call.
Ah there's reconciliation in this argument, I've never had such a calling but I'm open to one when it does. Much like the feeling of love, many people claim they've never felt it or that it doesn't exist, but when it hits, you know it.

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#29    Habitat

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:51 AM

View PostHasina, on 15 October 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Ah there's reconciliation in this argument, I've never had such a calling but I'm open to one when it does. Much like the feeling of love, many people claim they've never felt it or that it doesn't exist, but when it hits, you know it.

Presumably you mean the feeling of being "in-love" romantically, if any-one when asked about whether they are "in-love" with someone expresses uncertainty, you know they are not, and indeed never have been, " in love" with anyone ! A form of all-consuming madness it may be, but it leaves you beyond instruction as to what it means to be "in love".


#30    Euphorbia

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:21 AM

View PostHabitat, on 14 October 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

This is at least partly the reason he bangs on about it. There is a substantial sector of the population that resents being pushed into religious settings, they are typically young, and not unreasonably, are more interested in life before death, than life after death !

Maybe because life after death hasn't even remotely been proven. Even NDE's  can't be trusted as any kind of proof as true death doesn't begin until decomposition sets in.......you know....the point of no return!

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People will come to religion when they are good and ready, like an animal will drink when it is thirsty, not because someone tells them to "hydrate" because it is good for them. These people are attracted to anti-religionist propaganda, but only if they still feel "pressure" from others to participate in organized religion. Otherwise they couldn't care less what some "authority" like Dawkins has to say about religious belief.

As a life long atheist (that intends to stay that way because I'll never be good and ready), I betcha I can go longer without religious belief than I can go without a drink of water......

A belief in god is OK if it works for them, but religion is losing out to some in the younger crowd that rightly sees all the negativity, the intolerance, hatred, and the bigotry that only something like organized religion can offer.

What a turn-off!

To them, god without religion works!

It doesn't take a book or a debate by Richard Dawkins to show them this.......

Edited by Euphorbia, 15 October 2012 - 03:33 AM.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

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