Innocent Killing In Bible

[Method]

First off, I am a christian I do believe in GOD. But somethings dont add up to me, being the rational thinker I am. I dont know what to believe about the dinosaurs, I know they were here i'm not some lunatic who denies there existence. But wouldnt GOD say something about them? And what about all this innocent killing going on in the bible, when one of the first commandments is "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

I just hope somebody can answer my questions, with legitmate answers not just murder is apart of everyday life.

Verses that condone innocent killing

Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

Ex. 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Lev. 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death."

Shall we blame the Crusaders for killing countless thousands of 'infidels'-- believers in other gods-- or the Book that plainly told them to do so? Surely the Crusaders were not born with the desire to march across from Europe to the Middle East and kill tens of thousands of Muslims?

[Method]

So I read over my own work, could it be a spiritual death?

[odas]

Interesting post, Method.

I am a moslem and I do believe in God, and, just like you I am certain that dinos walked on this earth.

And, since you exercised selfcriticism regarding your religion, I will do the same regarding my religion.

I, too, have reserves regarding the calling of murder in the Quran. Although it is a Gods word I do not agree with killing of Inocent creatures.

The plausible explanation for calls for killings in Bible/Quran is maybe to bring order in a orderless sociaty.

Disobeing parents, adulatry and so on was a part of the life before the bible. Therefore there was no respect for others. Harsh statement like those had to be made to obey rules.

Probably that was the only language people at that time understood?

Just like in todays days. We have rules and laws and expect everybody to respect them.

Disobidiance will be punished accordingly as far as by death.

So, in a way, not much has changed, but probably it is better then it was. Or?

[GrayTone]

The bible's been changed and translated thru so many languages, I wouldn't doubt most Christians had it all wrong

[Bella-Angelique]

Primitive tribal people did the best they could to understand and write down what they had learned. Some wisdom is timeless and some is not. Some stories were vastly changed and some were not.

Truth never changes, just perceptions of it do.

[ohio tsunami]

Possibly the stories of God killing the innocent was a control devise used by whomever to show people what would happened if they strayed from the teachings of the church. God would show his wrath and nobody would be spared.

[Abecrombie]

If I told you that a hippopanamus could stand or feed on a mountain you would probably think i was nuts, right?

What if I said this hippos tail was like a cedar ? way off right?

im making the point of where the dinosaur came from , where dinosaur were part of the first world age and we are now in the second world age and the third world age will be paradise.

all three world age old story events are in the old testament . the penteuch is the first five books in the bible. which means the first five seperate events penned by Moses . there a couple more books in the bible seeming fitting the time of when Moses was in the wilderness.

Job was one. The book of Job, in latter chapters 38-42 God himself claims all of creation and the things that were before the earth . He speaks of all the stars and there names he himself have named. How the Earth was formed, and the very creature God likendHimsef to

the dinosaur or then , behemoth. After such creature there is one that named Leviathan , this one today is known as an alligater. or crockadile ,..JOB 40:15-24 JOB 41:1-34

A MUST TO LOOK UP YOURSELF, AND THAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE THE CASE. DONT BELEIVE ME. SEARCH IT YOURSELF FOR REPROOF , CORRECTION, AND INSTRUCTION.

Keep in mind in Jeramiah

when inspired byGod wrote that

Jerahmiah 29:11-13

11} For I know the thoughts I think tword you , saith the LORD,thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

12}Then shall ye call upon me. and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

13}And ye shall seek me , and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart

[Abecrombie]

Primitive tribal people did the best they could to understand and write down what they had learned. Some wisdom is timeless and some is not. Some stories were vastly changed and some were not.

Truth never changes, just perceptions of it do.

Bella - you are the bomb girl you go. great input.

[Method]

My questions still havent been answered, i'm sorry if i'm just blind but these answers aren't doing it. Where's that pastor?

[Preacherbill]

My questions still havent been answered, i'm sorry if i'm just blind but these answers aren't doing it. Where's that pastor?

Sorry, I try to give as much time to these boards as possible but I do still have to work and I have been meaning to throw my 2 cents in.

The quotes you are providing come out of the book of exodus. This is a story of the founding of a nation and the institution of the Law for the ancient Israelites. I say Israelites because their traditions were significantly different from the modern religion of Judaism.

This religion was very legalistic and sins, i.e. breaking any law of God were dealt with harshly. The thing about that is you could avoid punishment by offering the proper sacrifice to God through the priestly cast; by substituting a sacrifice for themselves their sins would have been forgiven.

Ok enough of the history. The fact of the matter on your general question is that though the bible might be the inspired word of God, God has been used by man to do many evil things, from murder, to war, to slavery. It is important to understand the role that man has had in shaping the scriptures, tradition and history of the church.

Does this answer help, if not or if you have a more specific question let me know or shoot me a PM.

[Method]

So then as Christians, why are we told to read and abide by the Old Testament? If it is only applying to ancient judaism?

[Preacherbill]

So then as Christians, why are we told to read and abide by the Old Testament? If it is only applying to ancient judaism?

Many of the core moral beliefs in the Old Testament are important to us as Christians. Each denomination puts a different weight on them, so that is a factor also. Christians also teach that Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testament covenant and in him we are free from the bondage of sin. If you look at the OT, it has over 600 laws that must be followed, and are impossible to keep at all times. We call this slavery to the law and if it were up to us to keep all of them we would always fail, it is through the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross that he paid the price for all, and through his resurrection defeats death for all.

[Bearly]

Many of the core moral beliefs in the Old Testament are important to us as Christians. Each denomination puts a different weight on them, so that is a factor also. Christians also teach that Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testament covenant and in him we are free from the bondage of sin. If you look at the OT, it has over 600 laws that must be followed, and are impossible to keep at all times. We call this slavery to the law and if it were up to us to keep all of them we would always fail, it is through the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross that he paid the price for all, and through his resurrection defeats death for all.

Do you truely believe as stated, 'for all of us', or only those that except Christ as their savior, and are their other catches as to this as well, in your belief system?

[Preacherbill]

Do you truely believe as stated, 'for all of us', or only those that except Christ as their savior, and are their other catches as to this as well, in your belief system?

My belief is that the event of the crucifixion applies to all of humanity. That the freedom and salvation provides is given to all freely with no work being done on our part.

[draconic chronicler]

First off, I am a christian I do believe in GOD. But somethings dont add up to me, being the rational thinker I am. I dont know what to believe about the dinosaurs, I know they were here i'm not some lunatic who denies there existence. But wouldnt GOD say something about them? And what about all this innocent killing going on in the bible, when one of the first commandments is "Thou Shall Not Kill"?

I just hope somebody can answer my questions, with legitmate answers not just murder is apart of everyday life.

Verses that condone innocent killing

Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

Ex. 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Shall we blame the Crusaders for killing countless thousands of 'infidels'-- believers in other gods-- or the Book that plainly told them to do so? Surely the Crusaders were not born with the desire to march across from Europe to the Middle East and kill tens of thousands of Muslims?

Method, believe it or not those two ideas are closely connected.

Many sicentists believe evolution and the Bible are compatible if you accept an "old earth Creation. Dinosaurs are the Tannyn (great monsters) that existed in the epoch between fish and modern mammals and mankind. This works fairly well if you concede the creations days in the bible are really epochs of millions of years.

Fundamentalists/Young Earth creationists mistakenly think the "dragons" recorded during the time of humans, in both the bible and mythology are dinosaurs, but this is not correct.

dinosarus have been dead for 65 million years. The bible clearly states these "fiery flying serpents" in scripture are heavenly servant creatures called seraphim, cherubim, destroyers, and sometimes simply dragons. The red Dragon Satan is the best known of these creatures, though the bible implies there are thousands more of them and they will destory one third of mankind sometime in the future. They are also the destroyers who wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah and the Egyptian first born, "passing over" the israelites however, becasue they smelled the lambs blood on the lintels of their houses. In fact , the book of Jubilees, another ancient scripture that adds information not in the Bible, states that Satan led these destroyers.

Why it there all the slaughter in the Bible? Because originally only the chosen people of God were worthy of being saved, and every one else could be killed at their expense, such as the exterminatin of the Cannanites, so the Israelites could occupy their land.

Jesus changed this by offering salvation to the pagan world as well. But billions will apparently be killed if you are to accept the book of Revelation as inspired. They are to be killed by fire spewing, sharp toothed , snake tailed "horses" in Revelation, and by "dragons" in the Zorosatrian apocolypse scriptures which inspired the Revelation writer. Since both scirptures state the exact same one-third of the world population will be killed, we can assume the snake tailed, fire breathing horses and dragons are actually the same creatures, and are undoubted the same fiery flying serpents/dragons which God sent to destroy enemies in the Old Testament.

It is interesting that almost every culture in the world reports these eerily same dragons of the Bible in their own history.

[GrandGuignol]

I think the Bible has stayed in tact for the most part. the dead sea scrolls proved that much.

[IamsSon]

This works fairly well if you concede the creations days in the bible are really epochs of millions of years.

Except that, if you are following the Bible you have to deal with the fact that the word for day used in Genesis "yum"(sp?) is exactly the same word used in other parts of the Bible to speak about a 24 hr day. Additonally, at the end of each creation day, we see, "It was evening and morning..." clearly speaking about one night period. So, were the nights regular nights, but the days millions of years long?

[draconic chronicler]

Except that, if you are following the Bible you have to deal with the fact that the word for day used in Genesis "yum"(sp?) is exactly the same word used in other parts of the Bible to speak about a 24 hr day. Additonally, at the end of each creation day, we see, "It was evening and morning..." clearly speaking about one night period. So, were the nights regular nights, but the days millions of years long?

You have to take into account that these stories were passed down as an oral tradition by Hebrew shepherds before they were finally written down. Perhaps it was revealed to Adam, or Abraham that this creation process took millions of years, and this was to enormous a concept for these people to comprehend and the epochs were turned into days.

The same thing can be seen in the original Eden story about Adape and the Dragon written down in Sumeria at least 1500 years before the Bibel was written in Hebrew. There can be no doubt they are the same story, but by the time the Hebrews wrote it down, it had changed considerably.

[bigdog112]

In the beginning of are existence god became very disappointed with us with what Adam and Eve did. Just like a good parent he gives us tough love says if you don’t clean your room you will get a spanking. Don’t think just because he is god death isn’t a big thing to him the bible states that for every death he weeps and grieves.

This part is not Jewish bashing this is what is in the bible complain to god not me.

The bible stats that the Jewish people where his chosen people no other could ascend in to haven. After the many befouling they did god became fed up and stated as a godly rule that the gentiles will now be my people.

This part my have bin added or edited as an anti Jewish statement by the early catholic church. But I cant say if that’s true or not.

[Method]

In the beginning of are existence god became very disappointed with us with what Adam and Eve did. Just like a good parent he gives us tough love says if you don’t clean your room you will get a spanking. Don’t think just because he is god death isn’t a big thing to him the bible states that for every death he weeps and grieves.

This part is not Jewish bashing this is what is in the bible complain to god not me.

The bible stats that the Jewish people where his chosen people no other could ascend in to haven. After the many befouling they did god became fed up and stated as a godly rule that the gentiles will now be my people.

This part my have bin added or edited as an anti Jewish statement by the early catholic church. But I cant say if that’s true or not.

What are you talking about?

Thanks for all your responses, in the last few days I have been inactive for the weekend, because I was searching for my own answers. I post what I believe, soon.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Method

[Astral Projection]

Ex. 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

Ex. 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Are u really sure the people mentioned above are innocent? They either work on the Sabbath, curse and/or smite their parents, lie with animals or commit adultery. Can these people be called innocent? Though I agree with u that death is a harsh punishment, it should be realised that the people of those times would surely not follow the rules laid down by God, unless they were warned of such dire consequences. The "Do not kill" of the 10 commandments refers to the killing of innocent people, not culprits. In the above context, a penalty like death would only make it evident to the people of those times, how dear God held the Sabbath and respect of elders, and how much God condemned bestiality and adultry.

[Spurious George]

Didnt Jesus work on the Sabbath? What is the explanation for him not being guilty and legitimately put to death?

[Bella-Angelique]

Didnt Jesus work on the Sabbath? What is the explanation for him not being guilty and legitimately put to death?

He stated that it was a day created for the individual to use as they wished like a day off from work today. This may have identified him.

He was a Narzarene and it is also possible that at this time it was their common belief also.

You can tell by today's different denominational beliefs all do not believe the same thing and it was the same in their time also. What was instituted as law by the Levitical priesthood and later by the Sadducean priesthood did not represent a common belief or even a common practice in every city.

To keep the peace duing pilgrimages to the temple there were likely many local laws that were waived for visitors that they would not wave for locals. If he had been present over a long period of time and secured a home in the area they likely would have enforced it.

[Spurious George]

He stated that it was a day created for the individual to use as they wished like a day off from work today. This may have identified him.

But doesnt almost everyone guilty of a crime have a reason or excuse as to why they are innocent? It doesnt change the fact that they are still guilty though, if they admit that they did the crime but have an excuse.

[Astral Projection]

Jesus "worked" on the Sabbath? Healing people is work? It may be for a physician, cause that constitutes his work. Healing people was not work for Jesus, cause he was not a physician. If any activity was banned on a Sabbath, what did people do all day? Sleep? Even that is an activity.. The Sabbath may have been for the labour class people to give them rest from their daily monotonous chores. By profession Jesus was a carpenter and I don't think he did any carpentry on a Sabbath.