227 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

RavenHawk, on 20 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Yes, we need cuts everywhere but a million dollars at a time will not help.  We need hundreds of billions across the board but that alone is not helpful.  When you cut something, it creates a void.  Cutting defense too much and you create a void that our enemies will just waltz right in.  That is a given, just simple physics.  Cutting Entitlements and welfare is a little more complicated, because as a part of phasing out, Entitlements are obligations that need to be met.  For the individual, it's weaning off the government.  For the government it is cutting.  And faith based charities should be utilized for welfare.  Besides, Entitlements and welfare are not a charge of this government.


So that's about $250B.  Do you really understand what you are saying there?  The minute we reduce that much will enable all our enemies to start making plans.  You know who David was?  We slew Goliath.  There will be a line of Davids taking their turn.  Spending $100B more than your next competitor is a poor guarantee.  When I think of $250B being spent, I envision the state of our military in the 1930s.  Using trucks for tanks, soup cans for shells, and broom sticks for rifles.  I know the American people can make the wrong choices from time to time, but I wouldn't call them ingrates.

Waltz right in where?   Afghanistan?   Don't care.  In fact that's a lovely place for them to go.   I can't think of a better place for some wannabe "terrorists" to go than a pile of rocks in Afghanistan.

"Our enemies"?  I don't think I trust you to tell me who my "enemies" are.  My enemies might as well be the ones spending all that money of ours you want them to keep taking.  My government doesn't make me safe.  It jeopardizes my safety with these blowback policies it loves to perpetually engage in and if you're an American it jeopardizes yours too.

Liberals don't think that a million dollars matters but it does.   Every dollar counts.   Military spending should be cut massively and the entire federal budget would be better cut in half than slogging through the political drivel and dishonest "spending cuts" that both Democrats and Republicans keep lying to us about.  There are no spending cuts, only spending increases, and the expectation of endless growth is the biggest lie our citizens have been duped into believing.  

The only way we'll get a government we can afford is when we drop the rhetorical excuses for spending money and realize that every dollar counts.

Edited by Yamato, 20 December 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[RavenHawk]

Yamato, on 20 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Waltz right in where?   Afghanistan?   Don't care.  In fact that's a lovely place for them to go.   I can't think of a better place for some wannabe "terrorists" to go than a pile of rocks in Afghanistan.

Where do you get Afghanistan from?  I’m talking right here in River City.  Our enemies have constantly been testing our defenses.  The weaker we become, the faster and easier they will find the holes.  “Follow the sapper” is the saying.  They are active even now.  Do you have any idea who the top cyber attacks come from this very minute?  In the cyber world, we are currently at war with various entities.

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"Our enemies"?  I don't think I trust you to tell me who my "enemies" are.  

At the rate you are going, by the time you figure out who our enemies are, it’ll be too late.  Right now, it appears to be Islam, but that could change.  It might be Russia again or China?  Or the three could join forces.  Or it could be just about anyone else.  It could be England for all we know.  The point is that we need to be prepared for any enemy or combination.  You just can’t do that on $250B a year.

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My enemies might as well be the ones spending all that money of ours you want them to keep taking.  My government doesn't make me safe.  It jeopardizes my safety with these blowback policies it loves to perpetually engage in and if you're an American it jeopardizes yours too.

At this point I make a difference between the government and the military.  Obama cannot rely on the military to support him because the military takes an oath to defend this nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  The military does not take an oath to Obama.  Like most other militaries do to dictators.  That is why he was so adamant about modifying USNORTHCOM (revoke Posse Comitatus and allow foreign troops to act against US civilians) and why he was pushing for a NCSF (Sturmabteilung gave their oath to the dictator).  Or at least that is the intention.  It’s the action of the American military that makes you safe.  Now, I agree that what makes you unsafe is the Socialist civilian government that is attacking our liberties.

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Liberals don't think that a million dollars matters but it does.   Every dollar counts.   Military spending should be cut massively and the entire federal budget would be better cut in half than slogging through the political drivel and dishonest "spending cuts" that both Democrats and Republicans keep lying to us about.  There are no spending cuts, only spending increases, and the expectation of endless growth is the biggest lie our citizens have been duped into believing.  

As a general statement, every dollar does count but in this situation, a dollar does squat.  And I’m no liberal.  I’m pragmatic.  When you are in debt by trillions, what counts are hundreds of billions.  Since we haven’t had a budget in four years, it’s difficult to know what it really is now.  But the 2009 US budget was about $3.1T.  The budget for defense was around $700B.  The debt is $16T.  So according to you, a massive cut from defense would be about $450B.  So tell me, how long will it take to pay down the debt with only $450B, providing we survive being attacked?  We’ll be too weak to defend ourselves.

We need to cut what this government is not charged with and return to the original intent of the Constitution.  The only fair way to do that is with a proportional cut across the board.  People are going to get hurt but it’s better to hurt them now a little and supplement with faith based charities, than to devastate people later.  The real cliff is coming, it just depends on how we go over.  If we survive then maybe we will learn that the government cannot get involved in dependency of the population.

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The only way we'll get a government we can afford is when we drop the rhetorical excuses for spending money and realize that every dollar counts.

No, the only way to get a real government is to follow the advice of Mary Mathews: “You politicians have stayed professionals only because the voters have remained amateurs.”  Or in other words, the people need to stop being low information voters and take an active role in our politics.  Not what politicians can give us from the treasury but assuring the strength and stability of this nation and assuring the all important individual liberty.

[Yamato]

RavenHawk, on 20 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Where do you get Afghanistan from?  I'm talking right here in River City.  Our enemies have constantly been testing our defenses.  The weaker we become, the faster and easier they will find the holes.  "Follow the sapper" is the saying.  They are active even now.  Do you have any idea who the top cyber attacks come from this very minute?  In the cyber world, we are currently at war with various entities.


At the rate you are going, by the time you figure out who our enemies are, it'll be too late.  Right now, it appears to be Islam, but that could change.  It might be Russia again or China?  Or the three could join forces.  Or it could be just about anyone else.  It could be England for all we know.  The point is that we need to be prepared for any enemy or combination.  You just can't do that on $250B a year.


At this point I make a difference between the government and the military.  Obama cannot rely on the military to support him because the military takes an oath to defend this nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  The military does not take an oath to Obama.  Like most other militaries do to dictators.  That is why he was so adamant about modifying USNORTHCOM (revoke Posse Comitatus and allow foreign troops to act against US civilians) and why he was pushing for a NCSF (Sturmabteilung gave their oath to the dictator).  Or at least that is the intention.  It's the action of the American military that makes you safe.  Now, I agree that what makes you unsafe is the Socialist civilian government that is attacking our liberties.


As a general statement, every dollar does count but in this situation, a dollar does squat.  And I'm no liberal.  I'm pragmatic.  When you are in debt by trillions, what counts are hundreds of billions.  Since we haven't had a budget in four years, it's difficult to know what it really is now.  But the 2009 US budget was about $3.1T.  The budget for defense was around $700B.  The debt is $16T.  So according to you, a massive cut from defense would be about $450B.  So tell me, how long will it take to pay down the debt with only $450B, providing we survive being attacked?  We'll be too weak to defend ourselves.

We need to cut what this government is not charged with and return to the original intent of the Constitution.  The only fair way to do that is with a proportional cut across the board.  People are going to get hurt but it's better to hurt them now a little and supplement with faith based charities, than to devastate people later.  The real cliff is coming, it just depends on how we go over.  If we survive then maybe we will learn that the government cannot get involved in dependency of the population.


No, the only way to get a real government is to follow the advice of Mary Mathews: "You politicians have stayed professionals only because the voters have remained amateurs."  Or in other words, the people need to stop being low information voters and take an active role in our politics.  Not what politicians can give us from the treasury but assuring the strength and stability of this nation and assuring the all important individual liberty.

When you insist that government take my money and give it to Israel, you take away my individual liberty.   That money was mine.  I earned it with my own productivity.  I should have the freedom to determine whether I want to give that money to Israeli bureaucrats or keep that money in my own country and spend it on my dog, myself, my family, or my favorite charity.   Don't tread on me.

I take a very active role in our politics which is why I'm so adamantly opposed to our policies.  You can't support the policies and expect to disagree with the politicians who execute them.   I don't care about the words that are coming out of the politicians' mouths.  That's just rhetoric.  I care about their spending and where the money is going.   American money doesn't belong in the Middle East, unless it's American consumers buying Middle East goods.

The military takes an oath to the Constitution as does the Commander in Chief.   I don't care about who doesn't take oaths to whom.   I care about what oaths are taken and I expect these elected officials to take them seriously or else find another line of work they can succeed at.

"By the time I figure out who our enemies are"?  Even George W. Bush knew better than to think our enemy was Islam.  There's no greater force a government can make against a religion than war.  That's the most anti-Constitutional and anti-American position you can possibly take.  You're the last person who's ever going to tell me who my enemies are and get me to listen.   My enemies are the ones trying to throw my Constitution in the garbage.  I'm more concerned about people already here because that's where all the damage to this Republic gets done.   The Constitution will keep me safe, so long as I defend it from being defiled by paranoid Americans and self-entitled foreigners.