Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 20, 2014 #1 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Cosmic inflation: Confidence lowered for Big Bang signal Scientists who claimed to have found a pattern in the sky left by the super-rapid expansion of space just fractions of a second after the Big Bang say they are now less confident of their result.The BICEP2 Collaboration used a telescope at the South Pole to detect the signal in the oldest light it is possible to observe. At the time of the group's announcement in March, the discovery was hailed as a near-certain Nobel Prize. But the criticism since has been sharp. Rival groups have picked holes in the team's methods and analysis. Read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquatus1 Posted June 20, 2014 #2 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Bummer. Ah well, live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 20, 2014 #3 Share Posted June 20, 2014 All thats left us with is a big hole in the big bang! Better luck next time guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 20, 2014 Author #4 Share Posted June 20, 2014 All thats left us with is a big hole in the big bang! Wrong as usual. This in no way makes a hole in the current big bang theories, it just means they haven't been proven. There is a massive difference between not proving something and disproving something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 20, 2014 #5 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Wrong as usual. This in no way makes a hole in the current big bang theories, it just means they haven't been proven. There is a massive difference between not proving something and disproving something. Which in no way means it therefore must exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 20, 2014 Author #6 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Which in no way means it therefore must exist. Which would be true if it were the only evidence for the big bang and inflation. Since there is plenty of other evidence for the big bang your statement is (surprise, surprise) not correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 20, 2014 #7 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Which would be true if it were the only evidence for the big bang and inflation. Since there is plenty of other evidence for the big bang your statement is (surprise, surprise) not correct. There is no evidence at all that the entire mass of the universe originated from a speck so small it was invisible to begin with, even if it is an entertaining notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 20, 2014 Author #8 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) There is no evidence at all that the entire mass of the universe originated from a speck so small it was invisible to begin with, even if it is an entertaining notion. So the expansion of the universe is not evidence of the big bang? The 3K background radiation isn't evidence of the big bang? The observed abundance of elements in the universe been the same is the theoretical abundance generated by the nucleosynthesis of the big bang isn't evidence? The distribution of large scale structures in the universe being the same as that predicted by the big bang theory isn't evidence? You really need to inform the astronomers and cosmologists of this because it seems that they have all been wrong these last few years. After all someone that can't do division, thinks there are 4,000 habitable planets around every star in the galaxy and doesn't know what a shadow is is far more likely to be right than intelligent, well educated experts in the field isn't he? The only thing amusing is the utter nonsense that you continually post. I have to laugh at it otherwise I would despair. Edited June 20, 2014 by Waspie_Dwarf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted June 20, 2014 #9 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Just slightly off topic but for an interesting alternate (fictional) theory about the origin of our universe read a novel by Walter Jon Williams titled Implied Spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 21, 2014 #10 Share Posted June 21, 2014 So the expansion of the universe is not evidence of the big bang? The point is that if all matter was so intensely packed into a big bang tell me where there is any room for space to exist? Did space spill forth from matter lol, i doubt it. In fact how can anything exist without a space to exist in for starters? Unless space already existed that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepulchrave Posted June 21, 2014 #11 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The point is that if all matter was so intensely packed into a big bang tell me where there is any room for space to exist? Did space spill forth from matter lol, i doubt it. In fact how can anything exist without a space to exist in for starters? Unless space already existed that is. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is not true. It is ``more correct'' to think of the big bang as a progression of symmetry breaking. But that concept is a bit too abstract for layman physics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 21, 2014 #12 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is not true. It is ``more correct'' to think of the big bang as a progression of symmetry breaking. But that concept is a bit too abstract for layman physics. Out there man. Its hard enough to dig holes for aliving without understanding that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted June 21, 2014 #13 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Space-time itself expands, carrying whatever is in it along. This idea requires rethinking the intuitive nature of space-time to realize it is a "thing," not the "void" of the ancient atomists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsinausername Posted June 21, 2014 #14 Share Posted June 21, 2014 More money down the drain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsinausername Posted June 21, 2014 #15 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The point is that if all matter was so intensely packed into a big bang tell me where there is any room for space to exist? Did space spill forth from matter lol, i doubt it. In fact how can anything exist without a space to exist in for starters? Unless space already existed that is. Space is the absence of anything (matter). So outside of the mass that made up the big bang there would be an abundance of space...... ... this is assuming the big bang theory is of course true.... in which it is yet to be proven...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 21, 2014 #16 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Space-time itself expands, carrying whatever is in it along. This idea requires rethinking the intuitive nature of space-time to realize it is a "thing," not the "void" of the ancient atomists. Could it be that ' inflation' is a force then, such as nuclear and gravity are forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted June 21, 2014 #17 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Inflation is poorly understood, as far as I can tell, and is accepted mainly because it neatly "explains" a lot of the features we observe in the universe, such as its homogeneity, flatness, the absence of monopoles and other exotic particles, and on and on. It is seen as a phase change (like ice melting) and a type of particle (called, of course, an "inflaton") is seen as the particle manifestation of this energy. Astronomers would dearly like to get direct evidence that it occurred, instead of the inferential evidence they now rely on (not that inferential evidence isn't highly persuasive). What they found is good direct evidence of inflation, except that another explanation could account for it, so that other explanation (dust) has to be dealt with. The announcement what therefore a little premature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 21, 2014 #18 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I see thanks Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 21, 2014 Author #19 Share Posted June 21, 2014 More money down the drain... How so? Science is about discovery. Even when you fail to find something that is, in itself, a discovery. Besides this discovery is not dead and buried yet. There is less confidence in the result but as more research is done that confidence may rise again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsinausername Posted June 21, 2014 #20 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Agreed, science is about discovery. And I love the idea behind space travel, black holes, etc. But I think it's socially irresponsible to spending money on such things as theoretical hypothesis of the origin of the universe given the social/environmental and economic climate we currently live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted June 21, 2014 #21 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Agreed, science is about discovery. And I love the idea behind space travel, black holes, etc. But I think it's socially irresponsible to spending money on such things as theoretical hypothesis of the origin of the universe given the social/environmental and economic climate we currently live in. Unless gravity waves can cure these ills i would have to agree with you. 'Inflation' weapons would likely be developed before anything constructive is devised. Carbon tax is another way of charging for the use of sunlight and if gravity waves could provide boundless energy it wouldnt be for free in any case. Greed for power sucks our life blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsinausername Posted June 22, 2014 #22 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I have yet to see any tangible benefit of carbon taxation - except to perhaps fund the very body that invented them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted June 22, 2014 #23 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Agreed, science is about discovery. And I love the idea behind space travel, black holes, etc. But I think it's socially irresponsible to spending money on such things as theoretical hypothesis of the origin of the universe given the social/environmental and economic climate we currently live in. Do you really think cutting off study of our origins is going to help anything? By the way, that is a rhetorical question. The gains I see with advancing knowledge, even though at this time theoretical, hugely outweigh the little that is spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatsinausername Posted June 22, 2014 #24 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Are you saying that it's more important than curing diseases, solving energy problems and poverty in third (and first) world countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted June 22, 2014 #25 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The point is that if all matter was so intensely packed into a big bang tell me where there is any room for space to exist? Did space spill forth from matter lol, i doubt it. In fact how can anything exist without a space to exist in for starters? Unless space already existed that is. Space is the absence of anything (matter). So outside of the mass that made up the big bang there would be an abundance of space...... These statements display your ignorance of the topic, but I can help you immediately with just one piece of information: Both space and time began at the Big Bang. What that means is space was created along with time. The matter condensed out of the energy later. Are you saying that it's more important than curing diseases, solving energy problems and poverty in third (and first) world countries? A good argument can be made that it is. And you can't "solve" poverty anyway. Harte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now