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Rifles, Shotguns, and Pistols?!


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#31    Yamato

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:38 AM

Granted there's a very minute probability that someone's life will be saved in every instance the cops aren't called, if we take each instance one at a time.  Those instances add up if people had the ability to defend themselves, and are taught to rely on that ability and not just defer their defense to the cops at every opportunity.

The point is, if we're not conditioned to be helpless little victims huddled in a corner or hiding behind the furniture waiting for the police to arrive after every threat or perceived threat we face, we'll be a lot less reliant on police and consequently, we'll have a lot less of them.   That's a good thing beyond budgetary concerns.   Because what's that old adage?   "F the police"?   Like the Amazing Atheist says below, how many times in my life am I going to be saved by police?   Hasn't happened yet.  Probably never will.   Now how many times am I going to get harassed by cops, get held up in road blocks, check points, get tickets for traffic offenses, have to go to court to fight BS charges, etc? Already done all of those multiple times.



This is somewhat off topic, but just last night I was driving home from my g/f's and went through a yellow light, and I saw a bright *flash* light up behind my car as I drove through the intersection.   Whether or not I'll get a ticket in the mail from big brother watching me, is not clear.  Some friends mentioned that they know of camera eyes snapping photos of your car even if you're going through a green light, and it seems random to them, so I don't know.   While automating traffic enforcement would free manpower up for more vital roles, it also feels violating.   Privacy is in such short supply anymore, we should fight for every scrap we can scrape up.

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#32    ninjadude

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostYamato, on 27 January 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

Oh, an insult!  Hindsight is so 20/20.  

And what would you have done at nine years old?   Flown your Lego spacecraft downstairs to investigate?   Stayed in the room and continued playing?   At least we moved to a safe location and thought about our next move from there.   Which included jumping off the roof and going to my house, going back in the house to investigate ourselves, or going back in the house to call my parents.   We chose the third option.   What harm was done by what we chose to do, child counselor?   Would you have berated your son for being paranoid in this scenario?

Again, you assume there was some kind of "threat". I have to wonder where you learned this paranoia. The answer to your last question is yes and in fact, did.

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#33    CrimsonKing

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

I have trained for combat sports most of my life and im not a small guy either 6'ft 210 and in good shape,but i know if out somewhere and 4 or 5 people try to jump me i will need a weapon.Never heard of anyone in that type of situation who said they all volunteered to fight them 1 at a time.Im also not into the idea if someone breaks into my home its best to hunker down and hide while waiting for the cops,i dont live in a 3 story mansion with a panic room lol.

My question to the people who believe thats best is what happens if just taking valuables isnt there only intentions?

Getting back to original topic yamato  for hunting and target shooting i would recommend a 300 win mag or 30-06 cant go wrong with a 270 though.Also a winchester 30 30 lever action is a good hunting gun and when proficient with one not a bad defensive weapon aswell.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#34    Yamato

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 28 January 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Getting back to original topic yamato  for hunting and target shooting i would recommend a 300 win mag or 30-06 cant go wrong with a 270 though.Also a winchester 30 30 lever action is a good hunting gun and when proficient with one not a bad defensive weapon aswell.
Already own a sweet 30-30 (before Marlin turned to crap thanks to machine tools getting sabotaged by disgruntled workers) so this will be my 2nd and probably last rifle so I want it to be a good one.  I'm looking for something more powerful, semi-auto with greater accuracy at longer range.  I'll admit it though, a .300 magnum is probably a bit too much gun for me.

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#35    Corp

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

I don't see the gun being the centre of the story but rather a father checking up on his son. Would you have been less proud if he didn't have a shotgun?

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#36    HerNibs

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 26 January 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

i can not see how any man can tell another not to have a gun, when he has one himself. eg government.
Our police do not carry guns here, but if they did, they know that so would an awful lot of civilians, criminal or not.
I am anti guns and that goes out to our police force having them too, but, if it were not an option, then it would be rather stupid to be walking around unarmed if in an area where criminals all have guns. I do not see why I would need a gun in a friendly neighborhood..

Because criminals and dangerous people show up in friendly neighborhoods just like any other neighborhood.

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#37    freetoroam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 28 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Because criminals and dangerous people show up in friendly neighborhoods just like any other neighborhood.

Nibs
we have criminals and dangerous people here too, but we do not rely on a gun to protect ourselves, mainly because the criminal is not armed and if they are, it is more likely they will not shoot anyway or are carrying a replica. The only real problem we have here with people being killed by guns are by  the black on black gangs in inner cities  and quite frankly I would feel a lot better if they just all shoot each other to bits, AS LONG AS CIVILIANS do not get hurt. But gun crime is not an issue here.
In friendly neighbourhoods people  generally stick together and look out for each other, the criminals know this.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#38    aztek

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostCorp, on 28 January 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Would you have been less proud if he didn't have a shotgun?
if you have to ask, than it isn't worth answering, you wont get it anyway,.

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

we have criminals and dangerous people here too, but we do not rely on a gun to protect ourselves, mainly because the criminal is not armed and if they are, it is more likely they will not shoot anyway or are carrying a replica. The only real problem we have here with people being killed by guns are by  the black on black gangs in inner cities  and quite frankly I would feel a lot better if they just all shoot each other to bits, AS LONG AS CIVILIANS do not get hurt. But gun crime is not an issue here.
In friendly neighbourhoods people  generally stick together and look out for each other, the criminals know this.
the thing is we aren't takiling about YOUR criminals, and how it is in YOUR area, obvoiusly it is not the same as in usa.

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#39    Michelle

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

we have criminals and dangerous people here too, but we do not rely on a gun to protect ourselves, mainly because the criminal is not armed and if they are, it is more likely they will not shoot anyway or are carrying a replica. The only real problem we have here with people being killed by guns are by  the black on black gangs in inner cities  and quite frankly I would feel a lot better if they just all shoot each other to bits, AS LONG AS CIVILIANS do not get hurt. But gun crime is not an issue here.
In friendly neighbourhoods people  generally stick together and look out for each other, the criminals know this.

http://www.indyposte...ooting-rampage/

They do have an image to keep up. These sort of things don't get plastered all over the news like it does when it happens in the US. It gets brushed under the rug as quickly as possible.


#40    HerNibs

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

we have criminals and dangerous people here too, but we do not rely on a gun to protect ourselves, mainly because the criminal is not armed and if they are, it is more likely they will not shoot anyway or are carrying a replica. The only real problem we have here with people being killed by guns are by  the black on black gangs in inner cities  and quite frankly I would feel a lot better if they just all shoot each other to bits, AS LONG AS CIVILIANS do not get hurt. But gun crime is not an issue here.
In friendly neighbourhoods people  generally stick together and look out for each other, the criminals know this.

Most people rely on the police to protect us.  I can't think of anyone I know that would NOT use the police as their first avenue.  

Ok, so you don't depend on owning a weapon to defend yourself, that's fine.  If an individual is brandishing a "fake" gun and behaving like it's a real weapon then it's still a "gun crime".  It's a crime that is being committed using the fear of the "weapon" the criminal is carrying.  In one sentence you say that the criminals are most likely not going to shoot each other yet your next statement is saying that the criminals in the city are shooting each other and it's pretty much a good thing as far as your concerned.  You don't see the contradiction?

England may not have the weapon related violence we have in the US but it does have it.  Everywhere.

Crime, gun or not, is an issue everywhere.  I have no clear idea where you live but it seems to be a Utopia that no one else is aware of existing.

Nibs

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#41    freetoroam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostMichelle, on 28 January 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

http://www.indyposte...ooting-rampage/

They do have an image to keep up. These sort of things don't get plastered all over the news like it does when it happens in the US. It gets brushed under the rug as quickly as possible.
It was all over the news, i have said already we have had our share of shootings, nothing like what you have...thank goodness. But if you want to show thats is a big problem here, then come back with something a bit more recent.
i have already mentioned the black on black crime problems and yes, we have had the odd nutter with a gun, but it does not mean that we are all going to go out there and arm ourselves to the teeth. we just aint that paranoid and have no need to be.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#42    freetoroam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 28 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Most people rely on the police to protect us.  I can't think of anyone I know that would NOT use the police as their first avenue.  

Ok, so you don't depend on owning a weapon to defend yourself, that's fine.  If an individual is brandishing a "fake" gun and behaving like it's a real weapon then it's still a "gun crime".  It's a crime that is being committed using the fear of the "weapon" the criminal is carrying.  In one sentence you say that the criminals are most likely not going to shoot each other yet your next statement is saying that the criminals in the city are shooting each other and it's pretty much a good thing as far as your concerned.  You don't see the contradiction?

England may not have the weapon related violence we have in the US but it does have it.  Everywhere.

Crime, gun or not, is an issue everywhere.  I have no clear idea where you live but it seems to be a Utopia that no one else is aware of existing.

Nibs
I was brought up in South London, you can google all the crime you want to about that area. But it still does not mean we all went out and bought one. Most of us were tooled up, but not with guns, the gangs had them to basically shoot each other.
There is no way we are ever going to stop the odd nutter, thats for sure, but does it really mean we all have to go out and start buying guns incase the odd nutter wanders up our street? i don`t think so.
BUT, if I lived in America, I would have a gun, especially if i knew Michelle was popping over for a "chat"

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#43    HerNibs

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 January 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was brought up in South London, you can google all the crime you want to about that area. But it still does not mean we all went out and bought one. Most of us were tooled up, but not with guns, the gangs had them to basically shoot each other.
There is no way we are ever going to stop the odd nutter, thats for sure, but does it really mean we all have to go out and start buying guns incase the odd nutter wanders up our street? i don`t think so.
BUT, if I lived in America, I would have a gun, especially if i knew Michelle was popping over for a "chat"

Like I said, I know little about where you live, but you have some kind of misconception about what day to day life in the US is like.  Fine.  Live with what you opt to believe but if you are going to flat out ignore what those of us who DO know and understand are explaining then why are you discussing it other than to promote some false superior ideology?

If a criminal breaks into my home, threatens my family or myself with a knife or bat or whatever, I first call the police from a point of safety (relative) and if the threat continues before the police get to me, I WILL shoot the person.  Why is that an issue with anyone?  

If a person held or threatened your child/loved one with a knife and YOU have the ability to save their lives, wouldn't you?

Nibs

ETA - Michelle is welcome in my home at any time and if she does come, she would KNOW that she is as safe as she would be in her own home.

Edited by HerNibs, 28 January 2013 - 06:36 PM.

Just because it is a mystery to YOU doesn't make it unexplained.

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#44    Michelle

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 January 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I was brought up in South London, you can google all the crime you want to about that area. But it still does not mean we all went out and bought one. Most of us were tooled up, but not with guns, the gangs had them to basically shoot each other.
There is no way we are ever going to stop the odd nutter, thats for sure, but does it really mean we all have to go out and start buying guns incase the odd nutter wanders up our street? i don`t think so.
BUT, if I lived in America, I would have a gun, especially if i knew Michelle was popping over for a "chat"

Keep up with the insults, that's when it's obvious to everyone you have nothing constructive to say.


#45    Yamato

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

What's up with these opinionated Brits on Americans' guns?   What do they care?   Is this some kind of recent phenomenon based on pent up anger over something?    I think they still might have a stick in their eye from the fact that American guns taught their vaunted superpower military a lesson.  

It's hypocrisy for any government to turn on the very means by which it came into existence in the first place.   America's founders incorporated the lessons of our birth into our law which makes us very different than a lot of other self-serving governments out there.   What country didn't have violent beginnings?   Egypt is about as good as it gets and look at all the complaints about Egypt flying around lately.   It's like some people don't understand how much worse it can actually get and how much worse it almost always is.

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"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi




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