105 replies to this topic

[Br Cornelius]

Little Fish, on 30 December 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.
http://www.h4cblog.c...f-herd-immunity

Show us the papers little fish - otherwise its more hot air from the king.

Br Cornelius

[preacherman76]

Br Cornelius, on 30 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

You assume that I have not been through the trajectory of been in denial about vaccines benefits and then having proved to myself that I was wrong. I am not going to indulge your conspiracy delusions as thats all they are.

Br Cornelius

Hey if you are not interested in what these drug companies have directly said, then there isnt anything I can do for you. Especialy when somehow thier direct words have become my "conspiracy delusions"

[preacherman76]

Br Cornelius, on 30 December 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Care to show that evidence. As I said cases in immunised populations are expected.

Br Cornelius

Not really. I mean I have already given the link to all this information, with direct quotes from the drug companies. I spent alot of time yesterday going through it. Im not going to hold you by the hand to try and force feed you information that you dont even want to hear to begin with. Information you are already calling conspiracy before you even look at it

[preacherman76]

I guess when push comes to shove people are going to believe what ever they want regardless of the truth. I dont have any more interest arguing with people regarding the OP they had no interest in learning about.

Thanks to winter for providing this information. It was very helpful to me.

[Little Fish]

Br Cornelius, on 30 December 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Show us the papers little fish - otherwise its more hot air from the king.

Br Cornelius

who do i send the bill to?

or you could read the links given to you.
from the op
"...It would thus appear that these vaccines only provide waning immunity, not herd immunity, as
already well established in the case of the mumps vaccine by Castilla et al. [16] This often has the
effect of shifting a relatively mild childhood disease to older age groups of children or young
adults, in whom complications and sequelae from the disease are much more severe [15]."

you'll have to find out yourself what the "..." refers to by reading the links in the OP.

[Br Cornelius]

Let me just ask all the skeptics here - when was the last time you actually saw a case of measels ?
Remember this is a disease with a 90% infection rate which propagates with exactly the same mechanism as the common cold. A disease which would have been as common as the cold in the past.

Why do you think it has all but disappeared from the developed world - if not the vaccines ?

Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius]

Little Fish, on 30 December 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

who do i send the bill to?

or you could read the links given to you.
from the op
"...It would thus appear that these vaccines only provide waning immunity, not herd immunity, as
already well established in the case of the mumps vaccine by Castilla et al. [16] This often has the
effect of shifting a relatively mild childhood disease to older age groups of children or young
adults, in whom complications and sequelae from the disease are much more severe [15]."

you'll have to find out yourself what the "..." refers to by reading the links in the OP.

Little fish = if this assertion was  correct how do you account for the virtual irradication of measels in the developed world.
It is well know that some vaccines only offer short term protection - hence the need for tetanus boosters every 10years.

Care to show us some actual evidence for the fact that herd immunity doesn't work - cose all the evidence I can see says it does and is the reason that no one I know ever caught measles mumps or rubela.

You should read the Castilla et al. paper - it really doesn't support the contention that the MMR doesn't offer herd immunity.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 30 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

Interesting .
This link shows ,that because of this,Obama wants to add riders to the freedom of information act,to make it so agencies forced to produce papers,can now claim the papers and info ,DOESN'T EVEN EXIST .

wow...just wow.
Screw the public being duped,protect the people hurting the public .unbelievable

http://realityfail.c...s-vaccine-hoax/

[Paracelse]

I always found fascinating how dogmatic people want to reduce to entire world to their level, no matter how mighty they think that level could be.

[pallidin]

Hmmm... well let's see.

Vaccination has saved MILLIONS of lives. That's a fact

Vaccination to some has caused lethal reactions, but only in a VERY small percentage. That's a fact.

Aspirin, ibuprofen and similar has caused death in some individuals, yet helps MILLIONS more. That's a fact.

When conspiracy theorists can no longer hold onto 9/11 or doomsday, I guess they have to come-up with something else just for the jollies of upsetting the uninformed.

Sick, sick, sick.

[Br Cornelius]

Paracelse, on 30 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

I always found fascinating how dogmatic people want to reduce to entire world to their level, no matter how mighty they think that level could be.

If you cant refute the evidence attempt to call the provider unreasonable.
You see I have acknowledged that vaccines can cause all of the issues highlighted - but I have placed them into their appropriate context. Thats the very definition of been un-dogmatic.

Week one debating skills - fail.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 30 December 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Simbi Laveau]

Wearer of Hats, on 30 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

Pro- and Anti-vaccination brigaders are never going to agree.

The article is pretty cut and dry .
The freedom of information act ,is used to gain access to documents,that are completely OFFICIAL ,but are not accessible to the general public.
I've used it to get documents from the police dept,proving the ticket issued me,was illegal .
The article clearly states,this man petitioned the FDA and CDC ,for the documents .
So now FDA AMD CDC documents are not official ?
His request was denied for SEVEN YEARS,until someone stepped in legally,to force them to comply with a very legal act,in the USA .
Anyone reading that,with any working brain cells,would get it,unless they work for the parties being proven liars .
Quite a few people on here,WORK FOR BIG PHARM ,and post on only these threads ,to try to debunk any truth being posted .
La~

[Simbi Laveau]

pallidin, on 30 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Hmmm... well let's see.

Vaccination has saved MILLIONS of lives. That's a fact

Vaccination to some has caused lethal reactions, but only in a VERY small percentage. That's a fact.

Aspirin, ibuprofen and similar has caused death in some individuals, yet helps MILLIONS more. That's a fact.

When conspiracy theorists can no longer hold onto 9/11 or doomsday, I guess they have to come-up with something else just for the jollies of upsetting the uninformed.

Sick, sick, sick.

Generally,only ten percent of adverse drug reactions,get documented,at all .
It's a much bigger percentage ,and a lot of people die,or have permanent injury .
Big pharm ,is not our friend in the USA .
Ask all your friends with kids,and count how many having learning disabilities of some kind .
As the number is now astronomical .
A vaccine reaction actually killed one of my cats .
The only conspiracy is the one being perpetrated on the public .
The only data we are allowed to believe,is the data they give us.
The article clearly states,its drug company data,withheld from the public .

[Simbi Laveau]

Br Cornelius, on 30 December 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

If you cant refute the evidence attempt to call the provider unreasonable.
You see I have acknowledged that vaccines can cause all of the issues highlighted - but I have placed them into their appropriate context. Thats the very definition of been un-dogmatic.

Week one debating skills - fail.

Br Cornelius

Big pharm lies ,in the end,touch every life in this country . Let us know when it touches yours,because with your attitude and blind belief of it all,it absolutely will come to pass.
Condolences .

[Simbi Laveau]

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT .

The info of these article,was gotten via the freedom of information act,ergo,the info was GOVERNMENT PROTECTED .
It is not heresay ,other people's data ,or made up .
It came directly from the source.
PLEASE READ WHAT THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT IS USED FOR ,as its not to promote conspiracy theories .

http://en.wikipedia...._(United_States)