73 replies to this topic

[Kafkaesque]

Wookietim, on 01 October 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

"the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting.."

That is where you make a mistake.

When a new law is passed, there is always a period of confusion as to how to conform to that law. Therefore when passing a law like that within a couple months of an election the confusion will cause many people that do have the right to vote to not be able to.

For example - in Pennsylvania right now, what is a valid ID? Because some people have drivers licenses that do not have their photos on them. Some have photos on them but don't have their street address on them (The rural voters for example have only a PO Box number on them as their address). Some think that they need a new ID and may actually need it but may be told that they don't by their next door neighbor... and therefore will be turned away at the polls because of that.

Nope - this smells of voter suppression rather than any valid worry on the side of the GOP when they do this this close to an election.

If they are confused then they should find the necessary information about the laws and what type of ID is valid for voting..

There isn't a problem with being informed and resourceful.. I rather have those voters than ill informed voters..

I had an ID for several years back, no Permit or Driver's License, just a basic ID. You can go to the DMV and ask for a basic ID..

It's not at all confusing.. And if you're worried about not having a picture that fear will be quelled when they ask you not to smile for your photo that goes on the ID card..

Edited by Drayno, 01 October 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Wookietim]

Drayno, on 01 October 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

If they are confused then they should find the necessary information about the laws and what type of ID is valid for voting..

There isn't a problem with being informed and resourceful.. I rather have those voters than ill informed voters..

I had an ID for several years back, no Permit or Driver's License, just a basic ID. You can go to the DMV and ask for a basic ID..

It's not at all confusing.. And if you're worried about not having a picture that fear will be quelled when they ask you not to smile for your photo that goes on the ID card..

My Parents live in PA. They went to get a new voter ID and were told by one person at the offices doing that that their drivers license was valid. Then they were told by another person at the same office that their drivers license wasn't enough. Please remember - confusion is not only happening on the side of voters but also on the side of those enforcing that law.

Because it's not just voters that have to figure it out - it's the people that issue the new voter ID's and the people that check them at the voting booths as well as voters. A sane group of politicians doesn't throw a chaos bomb into the middle of the process right before an election if they aren't trying to engage in voter suppression.

[Myles]

Wookietim, on 01 October 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

"the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting.."

That is where you make a mistake.

When a new law is passed, there is always a period of confusion as to how to conform to that law. Therefore when passing a law like that within a couple months of an election the confusion will cause many people that do have the right to vote to not be able to.

For example - in Pennsylvania right now, what is a valid ID? Because some people have drivers licenses that do not have their photos on them. Some have photos on them but don't have their street address on them (The rural voters for example have only a PO Box number on them as their address). Some think that they need a new ID and may actually need it but may be told that they don't by their next door neighbor... and therefore will be turned away at the polls because of that.

Nope - this smells of voter suppression rather than any valid worry on the side of the GOP when they do this this close to an election.

Drivers licence do not have photos on them in Pen?   That is dumb.  All drivers lic. should have a photo.

[Myles]

Wookietim, on 01 October 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

My Parents live in PA. They went to get a new voter ID and were told by one person at the offices doing that that their drivers license was valid. Then they were told by another person at the same office that their drivers license wasn't enough. Please remember - confusion is not only happening on the side of voters but also on the side of those enforcing that law.

Because it's not just voters that have to figure it out - it's the people that issue the new voter ID's and the people that check them at the voting booths as well as voters. A sane group of politicians doesn't throw a chaos bomb into the middle of the process right before an election if they aren't trying to engage in voter suppression.

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Drayno, on 01 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Voting is a right...

Now, if you came here illegally, obtaining an ID should be impossible, unless you go through proper paperwork and become a US citizen, learn about the Presidents, our nation's history, and learn to speak and read English - you know, the basic requirements for becoming a US citizen, regardless of your ethnicity..

If people who are born U.S. citizens would take alittle time to learn about Presidents, our nation's history(apart from what the goverment teaches you) and reads the founding documents(all of them not just the declaration of independance and constitution) we wouldn't be having debates like this.

[Wookietim]

Myles, on 01 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

Really? Quick - if a Drivers License has a photo but not a street address on it, is it valid? Because so far my relations in PA have been told the full range by officials - that they will work, that they won't and that they will only be good enough to get the voter ID card. And that is from officials - the volunteers at the polls may understand the law differently.

[Babe Ruth]

Today a federal judge ruled PA voters can go without a photo ID.

[Myles]

Babe Ruth, on 02 October 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Today a federal judge ruled PA voters can go without a photo ID.

Bummer

[Babe Ruth]

Does that mean you favor the restriction by the government of fundamental rights, Myles, or am I misreading your position?

[Myles]

Babe Ruth, on 03 October 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Does that mean you favor the restriction by the government of fundamental rights, Myles, or am I misreading your position?

It just means that I don't have a problem with requiring a photo ID to vote.
Beyond the voting, I like the idea that more people would have photo ID's.

[Babe Ruth]

Should photo ID be required in order to enter federal or state parks?

[Myles]

Babe Ruth, on 03 October 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Should photo ID be required in order to enter federal or state parks?

i don't think it would be a horrible thing.  When I stay at a hotel I have to show my ID, so if I was camping, I wouldn't mind doing the same.

[Babe Ruth]

I understand that you yourself would not mind it.

I guess my question was more philosophical.  Do you think the law should require it?

[Myles]

Babe Ruth, on 04 October 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I understand that you yourself would not mind it.

I guess my question was more philosophical.  Do you think the law should require it?

That is a tough question.   I understand why people feel the way they do on both sides.    Freedom is great and the more you have the better it usually is.
But we also have so many illegals in this country that it is not all bad to limit where they can go.  Illegals should not be able to get an ID whereas legals can.
I guess I don't have a good answer.

[F3SS]

Myles, on 01 October 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Drivers licence do not have photos on them in Pen?   That is dumb.  All drivers lic. should have a photo.

It is dumb but false. Born and raised here and drivers licenses require your picture. Otherwise, what's the point. Now when you need a new ID you usually get a reminder in the mail, send it in with a check and you get what they call a camera card back in the mail. You simply take that to the DMV and get your picture taken and voila, a shiny new ID with your picture and holograms pops out of a machine.

Myles, on 01 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

There isn't. At least en mass. And if you are sooo confused about it just asked the next person you see and I'm sure you'll get a half intelligent answer on what to do.

Myles, on 02 October 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Bummer

This is what I've heard. The voter ID law passed. However, the deciding judge remained unconvinced that everybody in need would be able to acquire one in time for the elections. So, they say when you go to vote you will be asked for ID but are not required to show ID. The next time around though, ample time shall have been granted. Get an ID or no vote.