52 replies to this topic

[DieChecker]

Question: Obama is going around saying his millionares tax, AKA the Buffett Plan, will help the economy. But some of his words and logic seem contradictory to me.

Quote

The president touted his millionaires tax in Florida, a battleground state which could play a decisive role in the November 6 election.

The initiative, calling for a minimum tax of 30 percent on those earning more than $1 million a year has no chance of quickly becoming law, but it anchors Obama's vow to forge an economy where everyone has "a fair shot."

http://www.google.co...5f1ffc24871.7f1

How does taking more money from the rich make everyone get a fair shot? I'm not saying we should not raise taxes, even on everyone, but let's not be delusional that the rich are just going to roll over. Wouldn't a fair shot mean lowering taxes on the Lower and Middle Class so that they have more money to use as they please?

Maybe he is suggesting that a tax on the rich will allow for the FedGov to provide all the myrid multiple services that the Lower and Middle Class can ever want? Personally as a individual citizen, I'd like to keep more of what I earn and then spend it as I see fit, but that is just me. I don't especially trust the FedGov to take care of me.

Quote

Congress was expected to vote on the millionaires tax next week and the plan has almost no chance of passing.

But Democrats want to force Republicans to cast a vote to oppose the tax, which Obama and party allies can then use to castigate their foes on the campaign trail ahead of November's election.

Republicans argue that Obama's tax plans would hamper job creation and growth by forcing many small business owners to pay more money to the government -- cash which could be used to expand their businesses.

They also say the Buffett rule is a bid to deflect attention from Obama's failure to ignite a strong rebound and would do nothing to fix problems haunting the recovery, including the bloated deficit and high gas prices.

I feel sorry for Obama. He came into 2008 saying he was going to fix the economy, or at least his fanatical fans said so. And yet, here we are in 2012 and we're not much better off then 2009. Housing is still down. Unemployment is still Up. National Debt and Deficit are still WAY up. In 2009, we were told we'd be back to 2002 levels of Deficit, and that the Debt would be under control. Well it isn't and now Obama is going to have to eat that sandwich.

[acidhead]

Just curious... what do you suggest is done to correct all the problems listed?

[Rafterman]

acidhead, on 11 April 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Just curious... what do you suggest is done to correct all the problems listed?

Just curious...do you really believe that any increased tax revenue will be coupled with spending reductions to actually lower the debt and deficit?  Or will this increased revenue just be added to the spending machine?

[questionmark]

Rafterman, on 11 April 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just curious...do you really believe that any increased tax revenue will be coupled with spending reductions to actually lower the debt and deficit?  Or will this increased revenue just be added to the spending machine?

Naturally not, but not making the debt they are making thanks to the Bush tax cuts would already help

Edited by questionmark, 11 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[ninjadude]

DieChecker, on 11 April 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

How does taking more money from the rich make everyone get a fair shot?

it would provide a more fair tax policy since currently they pay a lower tax rate than the rest of the country.

Quote

Wouldn't a fair shot mean lowering taxes on the Lower and Middle Class so that they have more money to use as they please?

No. Our tax rates were ALREADY lowered with the Bush tax cuts. Which by the way is one of the major causes of FedGov economic problems. What have you been doing with all that money in the past decade? <snark>

Quote

Maybe he is suggesting that a tax on the rich will allow for the FedGov to provide all the myrid multiple services that the Lower and Middle Class can ever want?

No. We need to pay for stuff already spent before Obama (War, War, Tax Cuts, Medicare Part D, ...). The graphic has been posted on UM many times. The Bush tax cuts should not be renewed. We should end the wars.  That would stop some of the monetary bleeding.

Quote

He came into 2008 saying he was going to fix the economy, or at least his fanatical fans said so. And yet, here we are in 2012 and we're not much better off then 2009. Housing is still down. Unemployment is still Up.

No. Unemployment is going down. Job growth has been created nearly every month since the economic collapse of 2008. That graphic has been posted here on UM many times as well. The stock market has completely recovered. Business is generally making large sums of money. Manufacturing is growing again. (from my personal experience) It will take a year or two more to clear out the housing inventory. (again from personal experience and advice) If that's not fixed, it's certainly mended.

STOP watching Fox news and other people who want America to fail.

[Rafterman]

questionmark, on 11 April 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Naturally not, but not making the debt they are making thanks to the Bush tax cuts would already help

Then it won't do any good if it's not coupled with spending decreases and this Administration has shown time and time again that they are not interested in that.

[Babe Ruth]

Die

The goal is to increase revenue and cut spending.

Buffett is correct that our present tax system is grossly unfair and downright stupid.

Obama is a typical politician and moral midget.  Further, he is running for re-election and for that reason alone will tell people whatever they want to hear.

It's all political theater, and I can't believe I've even posting on this thread...  

[lightly]

Babe Ruth, on 11 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Die

The goal is to increase revenue and cut spending.

Buffett is correct that our present tax system is grossly unfair and downright stupid.

Obama is a typical politician and moral midget.  Further, he is running for re-election and for that reason alone will tell people whatever they want to hear.

It's all political theater, and I can't believe I've even posting on this thread...  

    .. will the tax pass?   nope.

[Bama13]

ninjadude, on 11 April 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

it would provide a more fair tax policy since currently they pay a lower tax rate than the rest of the country.



No. Our tax rates were ALREADY lowered with the Bush tax cuts. Which by the way is one of the major causes of FedGov economic problems. What have you been doing with all that money in the past decade? <snark>



No. We need to pay for stuff already spent before Obama (War, War, Tax Cuts, Medicare Part D, ...). The graphic has been posted on UM many times. The Bush tax cuts should not be renewed. We should end the wars.  That would stop some of the monetary bleeding.



No. Unemployment is going down. Job growth has been created nearly every month since the economic collapse of 2008. That graphic has been posted here on UM many times as well. The stock market has completely recovered. Business is generally making large sums of money. Manufacturing is growing again. (from my personal experience) It will take a year or two more to clear out the housing inventory. (again from personal experience and advice) If that's not fixed, it's certainly mended.

STOP watching Fox news and other people who want America to fail.

Even with the Bush tax cuts Fed revenue has risen at least 250 BILLION dollars EVERY year. Problem is that spending is increasing faster than revenues. Our government does NOT have a revenue problem, it has a SPENDING problem. Until they solve their spending problem revenue doesn't really matter. Doesn't matter how much you make if you spend more then you make your debt goes up. Simple math.

[Bama13]

Babe Ruth, on 11 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Die

The goal is to increase revenue and cut spending.

Buffett is correct that our present tax system is grossly unfair and downright stupid.

Obama is a typical politician and moral midget.  Further, he is running for re-election and for that reason alone will tell people whatever they want to hear.

It's all political theater, and I can't believe I've even posting on this thread...  

Buffet is just a hypocrit. I don't know why y'all pay any attention to him. He claims that he should pay more in taxes. Question: Why doesn't he? The Fed Gov will accept his money, yet he doesn't pay more. That makes him a hypocrit. I don't pay much attention to folks that say one thing and do another. But hey, that's just me.

[questionmark]

Rafterman, on 11 April 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Then it won't do any good if it's not coupled with spending decreases and this Administration has shown time and time again that they are not interested in that.

"This Administration" does not make the budget, that would be Congress and last I looked the majority was Republican. They have this great scheme of reducing taxes for the rich and leave the tab to our grandchildren.

[Rafterman]

questionmark, on 11 April 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

"This Administration" does not make the budget, that would be Congress and last I looked the majority was Republican. They have this great scheme of reducing taxes for the rich and leave the tab to our grandchildren.

Incorrect.

The Administration proposes a budget.  It is then sent to Congress for approval.  The House of Representatives Republican majority.  Budgets have been approved in the House and have been passed along to the Senate.  The Senate has a Democrat majority and has not passed a budget in several years - 2009 in fact.

[questionmark]

Rafterman, on 11 April 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Incorrect.

The Administration proposes a budget.  It is then sent to Congress for approval.  The House of Representatives Republican majority.  Budgets have been approved in the House and have been passed along to the Senate.  The Senate has a Democrat majority and has not passed a budget in several years - 2009 in fact.

So, why is a budget that is 100% made in Congress up for approval now?

[Rafterman]

questionmark, on 11 April 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

So, why is a budget that is 100% made in Congress up for approval now?

Why don't you learn the answer form those who proposed it:  http://budget.house.gov/fy2013Prosperity/

Congress has the ability if they want to do it, but it is typically done by the President.  And a budget proposed by one house of Congress typically has the same chance at passage as they one to which you are referring.

Here's a fairly in-depth explanation of the entire process.

http://usgovinfo.abo...udget_page1.htm

Perhaps it will assist you in future discussions.

[acidhead]

The buffet tax will be the nail in the coffin for small business owners and the middle class as a whole.  It weakens the market when the trickle down effect is bureaucratically influencing the process.  This runs from home renovations to family vacations.  Listen, the dollar is failing to retain it's inflationary sustainability.  The cost of living is rising faster at any time in modern history.  Another tax on individuals driving the market place only strengthens the larger corporations and limits the consumers personal choices.  This tax is a scam and Barak Obama was appointed president to sell it to everybody.