trancelikestate Posted April 16, 2014 #1 Share Posted April 16, 2014 First of all this is under US politics but it's more an idea for the world and a way of changing the current system of democracy. I was talking with a friend about how often politician's change their tone as soon as they are voted in and had this idea for a new way of doing things. In today's age why do we still rely so much on political "representatives" who often pretend to represent us but really represent their own motives or the motives of their associates. With the internet why don't we truly represent ourselves? So what if we set up a system where every or at least most issues can be voted on by everyone, not just the politicians. This would be a truer democracy wouldn't it? I mean I understand that there would have to be some regulation, some standards, admittedly I don't know who would make them or what they would be, to prevent everyone from voting on everything as ignorance could lead to ruin. It may go against the idea of a "truer democracy" but realistically not everyone is qualified to vote on certain issues, often due to a lack of education on the issue. (prescreening tests perhaps? Economic issues would require a license gained through passing some sort of exam proving a knowledge in economics, etc) But at the very least certain things like whether or not a country goes to war, or whether or not money should be spent on foreign aid or at home, should be voted on by it's people, not just those in power who may have a stake in the action. This new "everyone votes" system would allow everyday people to have a say on the things that ultimately effect them and their families. So what do you guys think? Anyone think this is a good idea? What would the problems with this sort of system be or how could it be improved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 16, 2014 #2 Share Posted April 16, 2014 that wont work, i mean it would work for us, but it would not fit politicians needs, concept that they work for us either always was or became a myth long ago. they work for themselves at our cost. just about anything that happens in the world shows that. do you think they will just give it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancelikestate Posted April 16, 2014 Author #3 Share Posted April 16, 2014 that wont work, i mean it would work for us, but it would not fit politicians needs, concept that they work for us either always was or became a myth long ago. they work for themselves at our cost. just about anything that happens in the world shows that. do you think they will just give it up? oh no not at all, I know this give up of power would never happen willingly, it would probably take a revolution in it's own right. But just as theoretical idea, say we the people did take back control somehow, I was wondering what people thought of this way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 16, 2014 #4 Share Posted April 16, 2014 also if i am voting i rather show my face rather than sitting at home, when you do it online it makes you less interested i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancelikestate Posted April 16, 2014 Author #5 Share Posted April 16, 2014 also if i am voting i rather show my face rather than sitting at home, when you do it online it makes you less interested i think I think if we had a say in every issue that came through the government, it would be tedious to show up somewhere all the time and people would just stop doing it. there's enough political apathy as is, at least in my country. If its online and convenient i think more people would stay involved and it would be a better representation of society as a whole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 16, 2014 #6 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) i love the idea, vote on line, votes should not by anonymus, and anytime you can see your name and your vote next to it. or at least your voting number, that would not be your ss, or any other id number. will be harder to fix votes, but i doubt many would want everyone to know who they voted for. but one small problem people might take control, but everyone can't govern, so there will have to be another gvmnt formed, few people will have power, power corrupts, i think after a while things will be back to"normal". Edited April 16, 2014 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancelikestate Posted April 16, 2014 Author #7 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i love the idea, vote on line, votes should not by anonymus, and anytime you can see your name and your vote next to it. or at least your voting number, that would not be your ss, or any other id number. will be harder to fix votes, but i doubt many would want everyone to know who they voted for. but one small problem people might take control, but everyone can't govern, so there will have to be another gvmnt formed, few people will have power, power corrupts, i think after a while things will be back to"normal". I think those chosen to actually govern would act more as administrators to the voters, the hand of the people but not the voice. Ya I suppose even here corruption could occur but if today's governments are the benchmark I think we'd still be in pretty good shape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 16, 2014 #8 Share Posted April 16, 2014 what country in the world has political system that you think yours should resamble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancelikestate Posted April 16, 2014 Author #9 Share Posted April 16, 2014 what country in the world has political system that you think yours should resamble? none of them. It would be something completely different as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted April 16, 2014 #10 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) It would not work. Before long people would do nothing but vote themselves entitlements and the system would collapse because nothing is free despite what the authors of obamacare would have you believe. And then to get things under control a dictator would sieze power and people would let them. Edited April 16, 2014 by OverSword 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 17, 2014 #11 Share Posted April 17, 2014 It's a nice idea at heart and I've had similar thoughts. This system only adds a middle man, the Internet, and pretty much eradicates our system of government which is excellent when properly executed, ie; remains constitutional. Believe me, I know in many ways it has strayed from that. We elect representatives to call the shots and represent US. Whether they do or not is another thread all together. The upside of your theory is we have a say in all matters without having to wait 2-4 years vote your say. The downside is not everyone will vote on everything. Actually there are many downsides. I think there'd be rampant fraud, c'mon, it's the Internet, land of anonymity and...fraud. The political correctness crowd would have an instant stroke as the mantra would be that the poor will never have a say again. I really do like this idea for certain levels, if you will, of legislation. For example, perhaps any single piece of legislation that costs over $200 billion should have votes outside of Election Day. Face it, if your representative actually campaigned truthfully and literally let you know that he plans on helping to spend hundreds of billions of your dollars are you going to cast your vote with the same thought process? I know a vote for Obama in '08 was, in the eyes of many, a vote for healthcare reform. However, if he had been truthful, truly truthful, and campaigned across the country saying he had a plan for reform and it's going to cost you upwards of $3 trillion the mantra may have changed from yes we can to no you won't. So if we had a legislation tier system where certain types of potentially detrimental or country changing policies are at stake then this idea just might work if it were clear and organized enough. However, in the end it's all far too complicated in an already far too complicated system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 17, 2014 #12 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I have to agree with F3ss that using the internet without very strict controls (which most people would find discouraging) is just an invitation to hackers to take over. People have stolen bitcoins over the internet, and if you read up on those, it is almost the best fiscal security you can get. It simply will not work. Even today, votes that are counted by way of machines over the internet are always coming up with people being suspicous of fraud. And probably with good reason. F3ss makes a lot of other good points. Like not everyone has a computer, or access to a computer. And in my opinion you would simply move all the attack ads off TV and into the various advertisements online. This would do to voting what texting did to communication. It turned talking to someone from a half hour experience into 3 words on a phone screen. Dehumanizing is not always better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundew Posted April 17, 2014 #13 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Not meaning to sound too Orwellian, I think a paper trail is a good thing when voting in elections. Sure you can "misplace" ballots and there's the possibility of the odd "hanging chad" but at least they can be recounted, again and again and again if necessary. It would seem much easier to manipulated electronic voting and more difficult to verify results. Remember Stalin once said, "It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes." As of late I am not particularly trusting of government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiskatonicGrad Posted April 17, 2014 #14 Share Posted April 17, 2014 First of all this is under US politics but it's more an idea for the world and a way of changing the current system of democracy. I was talking with a friend about how often politician's change their tone as soon as they are voted in and had this idea for a new way of doing things. In today's age why do we still rely so much on political "representatives" who often pretend to represent us but really represent their own motives or the motives of their associates. With the internet why don't we truly represent ourselves? So what if we set up a system where every or at least most issues can be voted on by everyone, not just the politicians. This would be a truer democracy wouldn't it? I mean I understand that there would have to be some regulation, some standards, admittedly I don't know who would make them or what they would be, to prevent everyone from voting on everything as ignorance could lead to ruin. It may go against the idea of a "truer democracy" but realistically not everyone is qualified to vote on certain issues, often due to a lack of education on the issue. (prescreening tests perhaps? Economic issues would require a license gained through passing some sort of exam proving a knowledge in economics, etc) But at the very least certain things like whether or not a country goes to war, or whether or not money should be spent on foreign aid or at home, should be voted on by it's people, not just those in power who may have a stake in the action. This new "everyone votes" system would allow everyday people to have a say on the things that ultimately effect them and their families. So what do you guys think? Anyone think this is a good idea? What would the problems with this sort of system be or how could it be improved? well we don't have to worry about this in the States we aren't even allowed to make people get an I.D. to vote let alone a test. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickian Posted April 17, 2014 #15 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I personally don't even like electronic voting. I would prefer it if they just had a giant glass box/dome in the middle of a parking lot that you dropped your vote sheet into, then once voting time ends they count each ballot in plain view of the public and phone in the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 17, 2014 #16 Share Posted April 17, 2014 and phone in the results. Probably if the results were passed on by way of Skype it would be more trusted, since anyone could be on the other end of a phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 17, 2014 #17 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The idea of on line voting would be one step toward pure democracy. Why not just set it up where everyone can vote on whatever issue is introduced by the appropriate officials. Then there would be no need for Representatives and Senators and so on. Just think of the money corporations would save that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundew Posted April 17, 2014 #18 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I personally don't even like electronic voting. I would prefer it if they just had a giant glass box/dome in the middle of a parking lot that you dropped your vote sheet into, then once voting time ends they count each ballot in plain view of the public and phone in the results. Sounds reasonable. I believe (despite the usual catcalls for racism) that we need to have State issued (not Federal) Voter I.D.s, with photos. They should be easily available, free and available at days times and places where the general population can get them. Then maybe we can have one vote for one person per election. No more votes for the dead, Mickey Mouse, or precincts showing 104% of the registered voters all voting for one candidate. BTW, this is what scares me about electronic voting; it's clear we already have voter fraud in parts of the country ↑, this can only make the problem potentially worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama13 Posted April 17, 2014 #19 Share Posted April 17, 2014 No person on this planet is informed enough to make an intelligent choice on every single thing. Not a one. Most aren't informed enough about their own country, let alone the rest of the world. I think this is a terrible idea. Now if y'all would simply allow me to determine everything... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 17, 2014 #20 Share Posted April 17, 2014 No person on this planet is informed enough to make an intelligent choice on every single thing. Not a one. Most aren't informed enough about their own country, let alone the rest of the world. I think this is a terrible idea. but this is how we vote now, can't see how it'll make anything worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted April 17, 2014 #21 Share Posted April 17, 2014 First of all this is under US politics but it's more an idea for the world and a way of changing the current system of democracy. I was talking with a friend about how often politician's change their tone as soon as they are voted in and had this idea for a new way of doing things. In today's age why do we still rely so much on political "representatives" who often pretend to represent us but really represent their own motives or the motives of their associates. With the internet why don't we truly represent ourselves? So what if we set up a system where every or at least most issues can be voted on by everyone, not just the politicians. This would be a truer democracy wouldn't it? I mean I understand that there would have to be some regulation, some standards, admittedly I don't know who would make them or what they would be, to prevent everyone from voting on everything as ignorance could lead to ruin. It may go against the idea of a "truer democracy" but realistically not everyone is qualified to vote on certain issues, often due to a lack of education on the issue. (prescreening tests perhaps? Economic issues would require a license gained through passing some sort of exam proving a knowledge in economics, etc) But at the very least certain things like whether or not a country goes to war, or whether or not money should be spent on foreign aid or at home, should be voted on by it's people, not just those in power who may have a stake in the action. This new "everyone votes" system would allow everyday people to have a say on the things that ultimately effect them and their families. So what do you guys think? Anyone think this is a good idea? What would the problems with this sort of system be or how could it be improved? It would be absolute and utter chaos - turning Government into nothing more than a big social media game. Besides, whoever said that the United State is a Democracy? We're a Representative Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama13 Posted April 17, 2014 #22 Share Posted April 17, 2014 It would be absolute and utter chaos - turning Government into nothing more than a big social media game. Besides, whoever said that the United State is a Democracy? We're a Representative Republic. Our representatives are elected democratically, so I guess we are really a Democratic Representative Republic, but that sounds to much like a communist countries name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trancelikestate Posted April 17, 2014 Author #23 Share Posted April 17, 2014 No person on this planet is informed enough to make an intelligent choice on every single thing. Not a one. Most aren't informed enough about their own country, let alone the rest of the world. I think this is a terrible idea. Now if y'all would simply allow me to determine everything... As I said there would have to be certain regulations, such as testing, which would be required in order to have a say on specific issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted April 17, 2014 #24 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The last thirty years or so has been a history of replacing what works with what sounds good..... the more things change the more they stay the same. Except for the use of faster speed of communicating, which everybody has access, keep computers out of gov. You're only asking for more problems or enslavement with this new internet direct democracy bs. It's a call for yet more gov in an effort to control individual liberty? More gov= better gov efficiency? Makes zero logical sense..... but it sounds gooooooooood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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